Is it ethical to commit genocide against crabs and birds to protect the turtles?

[Deleted]

that cycle of life shit is nonsense.

if it's the turtle's natural luck to get eaten by the gull/crab, then it's their natural luck to get stopped by us.

always wanted to slap steve irwin and jeff corwin when they talked about that kind of crap. we're nature, too.

We are nature, but with the ability to learn, predict and control the outcomes of other populations knowingly in a way that nothing else can. To some, that means we should just do whatever we want, to others that means it's our responsibility to only interfere in problems we've caused in other species.

[Deleted]

All life forms are selfish, it's just that sentient beings can be selfish in a lot more damaging ways.

When you give money to a begger, you do so because it makes YOU feel better. Empathy is simply selfishness through others.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The turtles are growing into sentient, talking people right? So yes. Clearly. By virtually every ethical system ever devised, save for Vegans.

Nah, the text in the beginning suggests these are just bog standard turtles. Because tortollans are pathetic sacks of shit they just tend to get reminded of themselves when they see random turtles. As for the sentient part.. since the game is essentially a giant fucking meme and the only semi-serious representation is in the books it's unclear if normal turtles are sentient or not, since it changes on a quest by quest basis.

- - - Updated - - -

We are nature, but with the ability to learn, predict and control the outcomes of other populations knowingly in a way that nothing else can. To some, that means we should just do whatever we want, to others that means it's our responsibility to only interfere in problems we've caused in other species.

We are the only species that is capable of changing the "natural order" on a global scale. I wouldn't really call that nature anymore. Certainly far off from any kind of hunter <-> prey paradim.

[Kokolums]

How about this:

1. If you choose to not save the turtles, word will spread about your failure to help your faction, other people will call you a coward and they will embark on a massive smear campaign. You will be shunned, lose your job, your career and it will ruin your life.
2. If you choose to save the turtles, other people will call you a heartless murderer of wildlife and they will embark on a massive smear campaign that results in you getting shunned, losing your job, your career and ruining your life.

To solve this problem, humans invented "the corporation". Instead of owning up to your own decisions and taking responsibility for your actions, you appoint yourself as chairman of the board and then hire a bunch of yes men to do exactly what you would have done. You send a vice president or director to handle the turtle issue. He rescues the turtles to get your gear upgrade. If there is blowback, you claim plausible deniability on your part and fire the man you sent to do the work while the media destroys the life of the man you sent to do the job.

There is no morality. There are no ethics. There is just staying out of the spotlight. Shades of grey.

[vertigo12]

Do they utter: mine,mine,mine,mine!mine!mine!mine!

[Devilyaki]

Oh you are killing them? Thought you just scared them off with a burst of light or whatever you fire out.

[Nalorakk]

The cycle of life can be cruel. This applies to crabs and birds too.

We may not eat them, but we reap the rewards of their demise.

[vertigo12]

Genocide is killing everything and making them extinct. Gameplay wise they respawn and thus the issue of genocide is non-existent.

You're not killing exactly all of them just a certain percentage and several casualties. I bet you won't be able to kill each and everyone of them.

[mysticx]

We're murder-hobos, we don't concern ourselves with ethics, we do whatever the highest-paying party wants, and the turtles are the ones paying.

If the gulls or crabs want our help, they better start paying better! :P

[Eazy]

You know, i thought the same, the quest its stupid, if you are weak you die

Then most of the people here on the forum, including you, would be already dead.

Don't get me wrong, if we(as humans) didn't kill bacterias with vaccines we'd be still dying one by one.

Oh you are killing them? Thought you just scared them off with a burst of light or whatever you fire out.

Yes, the dying naimation and green blood while being squished means you're scared off.

that cycle of life shit is nonsense.

if it's the turtle's natural luck to get eaten by the gull/crab, then it's their natural luck to get stopped by us.

always wanted to slap steve irwin and jeff corwin when they talked about that kind of crap. we're nature, too.

But we're more adapted.
We're on a much higher technological level than any animal is or will ever be. We're almost gods for them. We were a few times the reason why extinction of some species happened.
We shouldn't interfere, because we have no idea about the consequences of acting like that.

[vertigo12]

Then most of the people here on the forum, including you, would be already dead.

Don't get me wrong, if we(as humans) didn't kill bacterias with vaccines we'd be still dying one by one.



Yes, the dying naimation and green blood while being squished means you're scared off.



But we're more adapted.
We're on a much higher technological level than any animal is or will ever be. We're almost gods for them. We were a few times the reason why extinction of some species happened.
We shouldn't interfere, because we have no idea about the consequences of acting like that.

Technologically advanced and adapted? No wonder cancer is one of the highest cause of deaths and part of disease which the medical board reports.

No matter how technologically advance we could get, it's not enough with how we fight infectious diseases which gains antibiotic immunity of their own.You find a way to inoculate them, their next generation becomes more resistant to your high dosage medicine.

Talk about your humane prowess and supremacy. One of these days a viral or microbial epidemic will wipe the population of humankind once again and there wouldn't be enough resources or cure for us to fight it but subject ourselves and several generations to come which have developed antibodies resistant of such hypothetical epidemia.

Btw you're results doesn't count as no life up exist in the real world. It's only game over for a desktop warrior like you who's "somewhat immortal" in cyberworld of Warcraft.

[Kaver]

Animals eating other animals is a cycle of life and a part of nature. "The cycle of life can be cruel". If the turtles can't make it to the water should we just let that happen? If we met a kind crab race would we throw scrolls at all the turtles to allow the crabs to eat them and it would be okay? The albatross we shot down probably had hatchlings in their nests waiting for their mom to come back with food and now they will starve. Why should we take sides in which animals get to live and which don't?

Damn this is an important thread that we can't live without....

[Eazy]

Technologically advanced and adapted? No wonder cancer is one of the highest cause of deaths and part of disease which the medical board reports.

Yes. Because cancer is genetical disease. The longer we live, the higher probability of it to happen.
In the 120 years the lifespan was elongated by 100%.

I'm not saying that we're immortal or we're in fact gods.
But we're gods for the animals. We're getting much better and better each day.

No matter how technologically advance we could get, it's not enough with how we fight infectious diseases which gains antibiotic immunity of their own.You find a way to inoculate them, their next generation becomes more resistant to your high dosage medicine.

Yes it does matter, there are no bacterias that are totally immune for the antibiotics and there will never be.
We're making new drugs, we're doing everything we can to destroy them. We will probably find a new ways to defeat them. Not yet, but in the future.

Talk about your humane prowess and supremacy. One of these days a viral or microbial epidemic will wipe the population of humankind once again and there wouldn't be enough resources or cure for us to fight it but subject ourselves and several generations to come which have developed antibodies resistant of such hypothetical epidemia.

Don't think so. We had pandemics already. We've survived.

Btw you're results doesn't count as no life up exist in the real world. It's only game over for a desktop warrior like you who's "somewhat immortal" in cyberworld of Warcraft.

Desktop warrior, kek, I have much bigger knowledge about topics you're trying to talk about than you will ever be able to comprehend.
Cancer is not even in the TOP 5 reasons of death, educate yourself first if you're trying to have a proper discuss.

Of course it's not the same as real world, but in either we have balance and limits.

[Deleted]

It's interesting because, at least in real life, albatrosses are equally endangered.

[mrsohta]

Turtles are cuter, sorry

[Aeula]

I'd say it's... morally gray.

[KaPe]

Damn this is an important thread that we can't live without....

I'm sure the OP is very sorry for tearing you away from your busy schedule of solving the world hunger/curing cancer and *forcing* you to post in this thread. It was the only way to have you grace us with your presence.

Also, the quest reminded me of an old DLC comic. Different animal, same thing.

But yeah, on its' own, it makes about as much sense as the one where you feed baby raptors meat from their parents'. What kind of messed up cycle of life is this?

[Kwento]

Sounds like a typical night elf quest about “balance of nature done our way”. What is the origin of that quest? Zandalari?

[Teri]

Better call in PETA.

They are still too busy in Borean Tundra : D.E.H.T.A

[Baroclinic]

Animals eating other animals is a cycle of life and a part of nature. "The cycle of life can be cruel". If the turtles can't make it to the water should we just let that happen? If we met a kind crab race would we throw scrolls at all the turtles to allow the crabs to eat them and it would be okay? The albatross we shot down probably had hatchlings in their nests waiting for their mom to come back with food and now they will starve. Why should we take sides in which animals get to live and which don't?

Well, after kidnapping baby wolver on a daily basis, not sure birds getting blasted out of the sky by holy bolts matter anymore.