Is it just me or have tanks completely stopped caring about their group?

[Yunaqt]

What's actually odd, is that:

1.) I have only ever been below 50% mana on Seth...
[snip]
5.) As disc...

That's why, Disc is easily the strongest healer in dungeons atm. The amount of mechanics I didn't even learn until I played my alt druid was nutes, you can brute force everything and keep up with geared dps in damage. Essentially 4 DPSing everything killing bosses within lust windows.

[Deleted]

Like people have already mentioned, this is simply DPSers that are queueing as tanks for stuff to go faster or those that are very inexperienced. Is it bad? Yeah honestly, it is. I play both tank and healer and everytime I pug on my healer the groups are filled with tanks that don't seem to know what they're doing. xD

It makes you appreciate the ones that do give a damn

[quite an expert in wow]

You seem like a very frustrated healer that had some bad luck with groups. Play with people you know, not with different randoms every time. Speak up when you are oom. Yes, a good tank should watch out for that, but it doesn't hurt to announce it, right?

I kind of wonder how you hit oom though. I both tank and heal and when I heal I barely hit oom anymore - granted I have 345 itemlevel, but still.

[XDurionX]

-encounters a bad tank
-makes general assumptions about every single tank there is

It's exactly as smart as:

-doesn't enjoy the game anymore after 14 years
-thinks every single human being should be disgusted by playing

[goldenguyz]

What's actually odd, is that:

1.) I have only ever been below 50% mana on Seth or when we pull large packs (at my request, IF the tank/dps can handle it)
2.) I feel as though I get tanks that want to wait for me to heal people before pulling more. Can't blame them they might play with healers who can't heal properly.
3.) Most mechanics (heroic heh) I don't even move from anymore. :-/
4.) I will always agree with this.
5.) As disc, I have to stay in LOS of mobs. :P

Honestly, not being too elitist, but I wish tanks would pull faster, IF they aren't fresh 120's. At this point, I rarely get groups that aren't geared. I did however get a group yesterday were I was #1 in damage on every boss. :0

Yeah, I agree. Lost a +4 key earlier by 20 secs and it didn't help that the tank kept stopping randomly after packs.

Most tanks will stop after you say oom and if they don't they usually apologise and keep an eye out.

[Incarnia]

-encounters a bad tank
-makes general assumptions about every single tank there is

It's exactly as smart as:

-doesn't enjoy the game anymore after 14 years
-thinks every single human being should be disgusted by playing

Or you could've read what he wrote maybe? It wasn't just 1 tank. Obviously he is talking about pugs too, and ofc it is random what you'll end up with then, but I don't find it strange at all how he notices a difference between tanks in Legion and tanks now in pug groups.

[Lasting Journey]

I think for the most parts its adjustment period. It's been a long time that tanks had to be wary of dps tearing aggro off them if they focus cds on something early in a pull. Give it a while and it should sort itself out.

[Marrilaife]

Yeah, I agree. Lost a +4 key earlier by 20 secs and it didn't help that the tank kept stopping randomly after packs.

If you depleted a +4 key it means either dps was shit or you wiped a lot.

Yesterday I lost a +9 key and it was solely due to death time deduction. If we haven't wiped, we would have made it. Mistakes happen. That's how it rolls. But blaming "the tank was too slow" on depleting a measly +4 is never the whole truth.

From +7 and on due to necrotic it starts being more tricky how you pull and how you use ccs / defensives / kiting.

There are usually 3 reasons for "tank being slow":

1. Tank not being confident, or not knowing where to go, or waiting for cds - this comes with practice and tank can optimize it.

2. Healer being oom or people being low hp / dead and needing a rez after the pack - can't do much, insta pulling can mean death. And healers seriously should carry some cheap water and drink asap when out of combat. I hate seeing pug healers who either 1) have no water 2) insta interrupt drinking when mobs are pulled even if the mobs don't interrupt it. Just keep drinking until people start taking damage especially if you're a reactive healing class.

3. Mobs not dying quickly, not being interrupted and tank getting worried if he pulls more, the group will get overran. In that case dps need to up their game, I've seen way too many times dps doing snail pace levels of damage and then blaming the tank the dungeon goes too slow. First and foremost if you want it to go faster, kill stuff faster, don't stand in crap so you don't strain the healer and interrupt mobs especially the ones that heal (priests in underrot, potion drink in temple of sethraliss, kaja cola in motherlode, healing mists in shrine of storms etc.) or cc people (people being cced = less dps done, letting stuff like hex in king's rest go through it a major dps loss since only 2 out of 6 healer specs can dispel it).

[Vampiregenesis]

I play tank this expansion and it's the opposite, none cares about us. Blizzard thought it was smart to change mythic+ but everyone thinks that we are still in legion.

A warrior overaggro a mob on a pack of 8 and dies? I get blamed for it

Do I try to cc a mob and make a safe pull on a +5 stone? NO! wtf tank why do you play so defensive? PULL MORE (none realize that we arent in legion)

Did someone ninja pulled 2 extra packs out of frustration due to my defensive play and I died? I'm still getting blamed for it

People don't even bother blaming the healers anymore, if you die then it's your fault! did you take 4 terrible thrashes in a row without getting topped by a healer? you are a paper tank!

I'd say the role is still enjoyable at raids but mythic+ is a terrible experience because people are still used in legion and think that a +5 is just a cakewalk and you must pull everything, aoe them and be done with it. I know this, I could reach the mythic+ cap on the release of every new tier at legion and it was also very easy, I could even go beyond that easily. At bfa I feel that I MUST use cc at a +5 otherwise I'm getting destroyed, the trash of bfa are really overtuned, this includes raids as well, fortified and sanguine make them very tough to deal with, I don't even want to think about adding necrotic on all of this. I believe a +10 should be easy though with a guild and communication, proper cc and focus could make it happen. Tyranical will be thousand times better on bfa.

[Sanitee]

I've literally been kicked twice because the group felt i was pulling too slowly, didn't know the abilities of the trash, so they kept pulling more and even when i kept threat and put out good aoe dps, interrupted what i could, the group could not kill the trash due to them healing, the dmg shield on adds and it all overlapping. Then i get the boot for being too slow.

i mean, it's no rocket science why people don't like tanking for pugs.

[Battlebeard]

I know that a lot of tanks have been like this forever, but it feels like, since BfA launched, 99% of tanks have stopped giving a crap about anything other than charging forward.

• Nobody gives a crap about the healer's mana anymore. They can be completely oom, but the tank still pulls the next group of 6 enemies. Even if the healer starts drinking they don't care and keep going.
• Nobody cares about the group's health. The entire group can be at 20%. The tank still pushes on.
• Nobody cares about their own health. I actually just had a tank at 10%, group at 40%, and me out of mana. The tank still didn't care and rushed into the next mob group.
• Nobody notices ANYTHING around them. Another monster added? They just don't see it. They'd rather rush into the next enemies instead of taunting the thing that's tearing through the group.
• Everyone seems to have become extremely good at kiting the healer around obstacles. Most notably the first boss in King's Rest and the final bosses in Tol Dagor and Boralus.

I feel like it has gotten REALLY bad, and I honestly don't remember it being this much of a problem in Legion. I have no idea if I'm just unlucky, but I've been in all 30 mythics up to now and I'd say that maybe 3 or 4 stopped when the group was low or I started drinking. The rest seemed like robots. As if they weren't actually playing and some kind of artifical intelligence was just moving them forward, kind of holding aggro, but being completely unaware of everything in their surroundings.

So, is it just me or did anyone else notice this?

I experience the complete opposite. I have to pull stuff myself because Tanks have gotten so slow. Chainpulls doesn't seem to exist anymore and it's like the tanks take a breather before every pull. Instances are litterally taking twice as long because tanks are so damn slow.

[Deleted]

So, is it just me or did anyone else notice this?

Yeah, that's what I observed when I queued for a LFD and briefly tried random heroics. As a former tank, at first I was impressed that the PUG tanks were so bold and charged confidently off into every mob pack. Then I realised they were just working on the assumption the group would back them up. It was frenetic. The idea of shepherding your party was absent - the "gogogo" guy (bane of my former life as a PuG tank) hand picked up the shield. As the deaths, wipes and group break ups accumulated, I tip-toed out of LFD and have just been pottering around doing WQs since.

Full disclosure: I am currently playing on a below min spec laptop with 7 FPS, so doing serious stuff in WoW at the moment is beyond me.

[Sanitee]

I experience the complete opposite. I have to pull stuff myself because Tanks have gotten so slow. Chainpulls doesn't seem to exist anymore and it's like the tanks take a breather before every pull. Instances are litterally taking twice as long because tanks are so damn slow.

Most of us pull as fast as the DPS allows, MOST. Like i said in my post earlier, i got kicked because the group felt i was pulling too slow and yet THEY were pulling trash and couldn't kill them because they didn't understand the special abilities of the trash. Some tanks ARE slow, ye, but most of us pull at the pace that DPS can handle.

[Marrilaife]

Most of us pull as fast as the DPS allows, MOST. Like i said in my post earlier, i got kicked because the group felt i was pulling too slow and yet THEY were pulling trash and couldn't kill them because they didn't understand the special abilities of the trash. Some tanks ARE slow, ye, but most of us pull at the pace that DPS can handle.

Yeah it's amazing when people pull extras to "speed it up" and then the packs keep healing each other for the next 5 minutes. Great time saver there. Top contender is potion drinker packs before snake boss in temple of Sethraliss. Priests in shrine of the storms spamming renewing mists are also great for that purpose.

[Kazlofski]

I noticed it as well recently, A LOT of this happens in mythic +
especially with tanks not realizing that you need to drag out the adds out of Ichor and if it's ranged and it refuses to move, they don't try to LoS it so as a warr DPS i am forced to taunt it, hide behind a corner and let it follow me outside of the Ichor... Or another one that makes me laugh is when they do drag it out of Ichor, but just a little bit so it doesn't get healed but they forget we have 2 melees in group and we can't stand behind the add like that and DPS properly with some space, having to go from the sides and front...

Also what's with the attitude of "oh let's skip this extra trash pack of 1-2 mobs because it's such a time waster!" - bam it's ass pulled while pulling another group or while fighting a boss and overall we lose much more time than we would if we just dealt with that small pack from the beginning. People are spending 30-45 minutes in dungeons, another 1-3 minutes won't kill anyone.

[Sanitee]

I noticed it as well recently, A LOT of this happens in mythic +
especially with tanks not realizing that you need to drag out the adds out of Ichor and if it's ranged and it refuses to move, they don't try to LoS it so as a warr DPS i am forced to taunt it, hide behind a corner and let it follow me outside of the Ichor... Or another one that makes me laugh is when they do drag it out of Ichor, but just a little bit so it doesn't get healed but they forget we have 2 melees in group and we can't stand behind the add like that and DPS properly with some space, having to go from the sides and front...

Also what's with the attitude of "oh let's skip this extra trash pack of 1-2 mobs because it's such a time waster!" - bam it's ass pulled while pulling another group or while fighting a boss and overall we lose much more time than we would if we just dealt with that small pack from the beginning. People are spending 30-45 minutes in dungeons, another 1-3 minutes won't kill anyone.

So much this, when trying to go the safe and easy route, there's always some buttmunch who wants to do some VERY tight mob skipping and one of the people in the group always pulls them and/or more on top of the next group.

That and people not realizing that there's a bunch of trash you actually need to understand to deal with properly. If you pull certain groups en masse you're actually wasting time, not saving time. Usually it's tanks that need to do that kind of homework to know WHY it's a bad idea to brainlessly chainpull

[Deleted]

Most of you mention DPS gone tank but i'm healer gone tank for the past 3 expansions or so, and i feel that helped me understand the struggles of the other role a lot better.

A thing i always watch for is if my healer is DPSing a lot instead of healing, then I can pull more (doesn't apply to disc priests, ofc). That usually means he's getting bored and can handle more.

Also - raid frames. If all tanks cared enough to have those active in 5man content at least, they would be able to see the group's health sporadically going up and down and maybe reconsider pulling extra when the healer is clearly struggling.

But honestly, a healer's job can be made so much more enjoyable and comfortable not just by the tank, but by the dps as well. Interrupts, CCs if i manage to get aggro on me, self healing and CD usage. I'd much rather have 3 experienced m+ dps with me and a shit tank, than the other way around.

edit: for example, I ran a +5 king's rest with a DH tank who thought we were still in legion, that spirit bomb is all he needs, never soul cleave to dump pain. It was like healing a tanking rogue. We still made it in +2 simply because the dps were not taking unecessary dmg, were CCing and using CDS, and i could dump my 20k hps primarily on the tank.

[Grmmppff]

Yeah it's amazing when people pull extras to "speed it up" and then the packs keep healing each other for the next 5 minutes. Great time saver there. Top contender is potion drinker packs before snake boss in temple of Sethraliss. Priests in shrine of the storms spamming renewing mists are also great for that purpose.

Well, from a Tank perspective.... Potions in temple can be purged => if I have a mage/shaman/2-3 bloodelves with me, I tend to pull lots of them(depending on +# ofc) too.
Regarding the topic: I always ask the heal to tell me whether it's too intense or too slow for him, so far 1 has told me it was too fast for him. It's a fortified week, so trash is intense ofc, but it's also the first week of m+ so people tend to experiment a bit with pack-sizes they can handle and stuff. In my experience however mostly dps try to pull more for whatever reason, and cause wipes.
My favorite so far is doing +3 keyupgrade +3 freehold. If dps dont completely suck and can interrupt a few water blasts, it's easily manageable to get it with >12minutes remaining.

[Speedlance]

I think you get bad tanks then I'm afraid. I don't tank often but when I do I always look after healer mana and adjust my pull size based on it. I never stop but I won't pull 10 mobs if healer has 20% mana, unless I know I can blast cds and survive a while without heals.

[Marrilaife]

Well, from a Tank perspective.... Potions in temple can be purged => if I have a mage/shaman/2-3 bloodelves with me, I tend to pull lots of them(depending on +# ofc) too.

Oh look, and all the Blood Elves cried their racial is not good enough after the "nerf".

Anyway if pugs interrupted, purged and stunned properly tanks could afford bigger pulls, but most of the "gogogo pull more" players don't do any of those or just insta spend interrupt / stun on pull and then have nothing for later.