Unpopular Opinion...Ele Shaman is actually decent with some gear.

[freddy090909]

Always look at 95% when looking at balance.

The problem with going that high is that you're going to end up seeing luck more than skill. Especially this early, with such low representation. Honestly, I'd say the 75% default is a pretty good point of balancing skill and luck.

That said, it is silly to look at some overall score to try and determine balance, it is much better to look fight by fight and seeing where it is that specs are performing well/poorly.

[BiggestNoob]

The problem with going that high is that you're going to end up seeing luck more than skill. Especially this early, with such low representation. Honestly, I'd say the 75% default is a pretty good point of balancing skill and luck.

That said, it is silly to look at some overall score to try and determine balance, it is much better to look fight by fight and seeing where it is that specs are performing well/poorly.

No, there are no outliers at 95%, however there are loads and loads of people at 75% who are dead or who ran around not pressing buttons, it's not a good metric of "how good this spec is." There's far too many terrible players at 75%, and 95% is consistently achievable every pull by good players.

I'm looking at both overall and fight-by-fight. Overall is a good measure of general balance. There's no fight where Elemental is good, just flat out good. Not one.

[Ele man]

You are misreading statistics.
ele have good aoe. So it is a total damage benefit from the aoe tactical boss.
ele brings an enormous amount of dps from weak monsters that die easily.
The wcl statistics only show all dps, which does not calculate the exact value between dps. ele is the biggest victim of this approach.
Even in such an advantage, ele is the lowest point. What does this mean?

[BiggestNoob]

You are misreading statistics.
ele have good aoe. So it is a total damage benefit from the aoe tactical boss.
ele brings an enormous amount of dps from weak monsters that die easily.
The wcl statistics only show all dps, which does not calculate the exact value between dps. ele is the biggest victim of this approach.
Even in such an advantage, ele is the lowest point. What does this mean?

Wat? None of this makes any sense. Ele doesn't have good AoE, it has average sustained AoE and no burst AoE. You then claim Ele benefits from "weak monsters that die easily" aka burst, which is totally false. WCL overall shows how a class looks across all bosses, some being a mix of AoE with adds and others being mostly single target fights. If a spec is really good at AoE or cleave but bad at ST it'll average out in this overall statistic. If it's amazing at ST but bad at cleave/AoE it'll average out. If it's amazing at both or just broken at something, it'll be at the top, and if it's terrible at everything it'll be on the bottom. You can get an idea of what a spec is good at by looking at individual bosses. You can figure out if it's burst vs sustained by looking at a lower difficulty because the bosses die much faster. I'm not misreading anything. This is simple.

Ele is pretty terrible right now, even with gear.

[Coldfire989]

It's rare when an "unpopular opinion" actually is very unpopular.

No it isn’t LUL especially on these horrible toxic and generally wrong forums.

[Zeek Daniels]

I feel like unless my elemental is up i do shit damage. I dont have the burst aoe i had in legion and even if mobs last a long time unless they are stationary and there are 5+ i do crap aoe compared to other classes. How is that even possible for ele shammy to do crap aoe? EQ feels super weak, CL is super weak. We dont have enough mastery to get consistant overloads atm and we dont have enough haste to cast quickly.

Theres like 2 dungeons where i cant even get casts off on certain packs because they throw crap at you and i cant even cast b4 i have to move. You know what that does to DPS Blizz when you cant cast a single spell?

[Sarkol]

the dungeon damage is extremely bad compared to locks, mages, rogues, dh, ret paladins, dks, and boomies. even disc priests beat ele shamans on bosses in mythic dungeons. so not really.

Never seen anyone talk as much shit as you just did there.

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It's not an unpopular opinion; it's factually wrong. Elemental has lost basically everything that made the spec great. It's slightly better than Vanilla and TBC, but compared to any other expansion, it's terrible. Singletarget is terrible, aoe is terrible, maelstrom is terrible, talents have no synergy and are thus terrible, survival is terrible.... And yes, I leveled as elemental, have played the spec since the AQ patch in vanilla.

Worthless post. What does 'terrible' even mean? You're spouting bollocks with no real arguments. Ele is solidly middle of the pack in terms of overall logs, and if you're anyone but the absolute top top players it's more than fine. Still has lots of cool utility and no, it's damage, especially aoe, is not terrible at all.

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Our dps as elemental is so bad my resto spec does more. I'm serious lava burst and lightning bolt hit harder. You have to proc an overload for it to get any higher. Earth shock is the only thing that surpasses my damage in resto spec.

Who gives a fuck if a few spells are balanced that way? Stop looking at individual spells and look at the actual overall damage like a sane person would.

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The shaman community in general is quick to look for positives. Trash tier dps? - "no,no, look guys, I found a penny!!" Outside of outlier patches, and anomalies like add fights or fire nova/lmt, shaman dps specs continue to be mediocre, but there's always that one guy who sees a bright side. Bless your heart, I guess?

Except Ele dps isn't trash tier at all? Bless your heart, i guess?

[Socialhealer]

Never seen anyone talk as much shit as you just did there.

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Worthless post. What does 'terrible' even mean? You're spouting bollocks with no real arguments. Ele is solidly middle of the pack in terms of overall logs, and if you're anyone but the absolute top top players it's more than fine. Still has lots of cool utility and no, it's damage, especially aoe, is not terrible at all.

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Who gives a fuck if a few spells are balanced that way? Stop looking at individual spells and look at the actual overall damage like a sane person would.

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Except Ele dps isn't trash tier at all? Bless your heart, i guess?

just fuck off out of this thread you're trash and you talk too much trash, ignored.

Sarkol has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were.

blindly defending this fucking joke of an iteration of elemental failure class design deserves no second chances just SSSSH.

[Sarkol]

Arcane and Frost are viable for mythic+ and mythic raiding. Both categories don't apply to Elemental at this point.

Don't get me wrong, I've been playing Elemental since the early days and quit the game rather than playing something else one year ago. My alt char was always the mage I'm currently maining. Not planning to go back to progression raiding, but the feeling that I'm actually a useful part of the community is enough for me.

Elemental is fine in Mythic +, and in raids there is barely anything between Ele and the Mage specs in terms of damage, with Elemental above Mage on some fights in Ul'dir. Try harder.

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just fuck off out of this thread you're trash and you talk too much trash, ignored.

Sarkol has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were.

blindly defending this fucking joke of an iteration of elemental failure class design deserves no second chances just SSSSH.

Telling me i talk trash whilst not noticing i said nothing about actual gameplay or design. Good riddance.

[Venziir]

Never seen anyone talk as much shit as you just did there.

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Worthless post. What does 'terrible' even mean? You're spouting bollocks with no real arguments. Ele is solidly middle of the pack in terms of overall logs, and if you're anyone but the absolute top top players it's more than fine. Still has lots of cool utility and no, it's damage, especially aoe, is not terrible at all.

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Who gives a fuck if a few spells are balanced that way? Stop looking at individual spells and look at the actual overall damage like a sane person would.

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Except Ele dps isn't trash tier at all? Bless your heart, i guess?

If you can't figure out what "terrible" means, then that's not my problem

[Sarkol]

If you can't figure out what "terrible" means, then that's not my problem

No one can. It's meaningless.

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Always look at 95% when looking at balance. Shadow, Fire, and Demonology are all bad right now. A lot of others are underrepresented because the best players are playing a better spec. Elemental is definitely among the worst specs in the game and a good ways behind the average, with some classes being quite OP right now.

In normal Ele is closer to the average, which means on fights where lust, CDs, and pots dominate the duration of the fight, it's closer to competitive, and longer fights or with more movement and mechanics, it drops off heavily.

On AoE, it's only about average, which means it excels at nothing. It's one of the least mobile casters (if not *the* least), its single target is among the worst of all specs, and its AoE is only about average.

We'll see if Blizzard does a tuning pass before mythic.

How is it one of the least mobile casters when you have Flame Shock, Earth Shock, and a literally spammable Frost shock that costs nothing and does similar damage to lightning bolt?

[Venziir]

No one can. It's meaningless.

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How is it one of the least mobile casters when you have Flame Shock, Earth Shock, and a literally spammable Frost shock that costs nothing and does similar damage to lightning bolt?

One of which does little direct dmg and has a rather long cd, the other which depends on a ton of maelstrom...

[Sarkol]

One of which does little direct dmg and has a rather long cd, the other which depends on a ton of maelstrom...

They're still both mobility, and you conveniently ignored Frost Shock. Some specs have much less.

[Raakel]

Current Elemental gameplay with my shamen in open world content is like...

Flameshock, 3 x hard cast 2 sec Lava Burst because of the mendatory PVP talent.

That is such a stupid and braindead gameplay and I completely skip Lightning Bolt because it's no use at all. I rather wait out for LB procs and then have to cast another 2 sec LB because my Maelstrom still isn't enough for an ES. Burst AOE is none existent and while melee unloads their dmg in an instant I've to set it up in what feels like an eternity. If mobs live long enough I'm able to catch up though.

The whole spec feels like it's in chains somehow or the car hand brake is still armed. I want to go forward but something is holding me in place.

[trm90]

Current Elemental gameplay with my shamen in open world content is like...

Flameshock, 3 x hard cast 2 sec Lava Burst because of the mendatory PVP talent.

That is such a stupid and braindead gameplay and I completely skip Lightning Bolt because it's no use at all. I rather wait out for LB procs and then have to cast another 2 sec LB because my Maelstrom still isn't enough for an ES. Burst AOE is none existent and while melee unloads their dmg in an instant I've to set it up in what feels like an eternity. If mobs live long enough I'm able to catch up though.

The whole spec feels like it's in chains somehow or the car hand brake is still armed. I want to go forward but something is holding me in place.

Control of Lava is total garbage in open world, and the fact that you're skipping your only non-CD generator is kind of mind boggling. You should really try taking Echo + Aftershock. And our burst AoE is absolutely there with SK and Primal Fire Ele, you just need to actually spec into those talents. Granted, if you or your tank can't pull >3 mobs our cleave is abysmal.

[Sarkol]

Current Elemental gameplay with my shamen in open world content is like...

Flameshock, 3 x hard cast 2 sec Lava Burst because of the mendatory PVP talent.

That is such a stupid and braindead gameplay and I completely skip Lightning Bolt because it's no use at all. I rather wait out for LB procs and then have to cast another 2 sec LB because my Maelstrom still isn't enough for an ES. Burst AOE is none existent and while melee unloads their dmg in an instant I've to set it up in what feels like an eternity. If mobs live long enough I'm able to catch up though.

The whole spec feels like it's in chains somehow or the car hand brake is still armed. I want to go forward but something is holding me in place.

So you choose garbage talents and play like garbage, but blame the spec? Control of Lava is shit.

You can literally blow up an entire world quest of mobs in a few seconds. Try using Flame/Frost shock to pull mobs, then Stormkeeper, Fire ele, Earthquake, Magma totem? This is all while having a pocket tank elemental, stun, knockback..

[Nyel]

Elemental is fine in Mythic +, and in raids there is barely anything between Ele and the Mage specs in terms of damage, with Elemental above Mage on some fights in Ul'dir. Try harder.

Every Frost Mage will easily outdps Ele in cleave fights, every Arcane Mage will outdps Ele in burst fights. Ele is poor when it comes to ST and barely better when it comes to AoE.

I find it hilarious that Ele just can be good with all CDs activated. "Use Stormkeeper, Elemental and Totem to be good" - yeah lol with 1m / 3m CDs that's possible all the time while most specs don't need CDs to be "middle of the pack".

[Venziir]

So you choose garbage talents and play like garbage, but blame the spec? Control of Lava is shit.

You can literally blow up an entire world quest of mobs in a few seconds. Try using Flame/Frost shock to pull mobs, then Stormkeeper, Fire ele, Earthquake, Magma totem? This is all while having a pocket tank elemental, stun, knockback..

Ah okay, so in order to perform almost as good as any other spec, I have to blow every CD at once.... Yeah that sounds perfect!

[Deleted]

Naah ele shaman is in the worst state just like tbc when you spam only chain lighting shock on cd... Slow cast time rng procs lol naah naah you cant take good ele shaman from legion and destroy this fun class like that... Enha is 150%better and i dont like playin enha shaman fuk

[Raakel]

Ah okay, so in order to perform almost as good as any other spec, I have to blow every CD at once.... Yeah that sounds perfect!

My (bad) talent choices apart, exactly what I thought.....