Night elf paladins to counter possible Zandalari paladins?

[Magical Mudcrab]

Your wall of texts are too asinine.

To me it looks like you need everything explained in detail, step by step because you cannot grasp how to deduce and infer information within a given context. So let me do that for you.

Me talking about the differences between Paladins and Priests and why the majority of Undead cannot be is something that is very easily googled and found as it's been a question asked over and over and over again given the same answers: There's a difference in how a Paladin wields the Light vs a Priest. Feel free to go through that rabbit hole, I don't have to explain the same explanation I've already given over and over which has been also told to others over and over.

You've lied consistently and I can see now that it's not a matter of your thoughts being just incoherent. You've consistently moved goalposts, and you've again gone back to an argument that's already been debunked. You were asked for evidence, and you've shown none. People explained to you the difference between a Paladin and what the Lightforged are, yet you still reject it. Even if I were to take what you've just said at face value, what you've said is fundamentally different from your initial statements that Undead could not be Paladin (which, again, I've linked in-context multiple times). Why should anyone believe what you say, or take it at face value without a large number of references, when you've shown yourself to be a liar who looks to do nothing but build straw men?

Let me explain the bold: Characters like Sir Zeliek are Unique/Rare. Unique/Rare does not describe our characters when we hit "create" and load into our starting area. This is how Blizzard has decided to introduce every current playable race that isn't an Allied Race. You are a regular lowly Forsaken when you first begin, there isn't anything special about you from that instant moment you awake.

What you've just said is not relevant. The introduction given is an introduction to the world and your people. Again, references made by characters like Il'gynoth which relate to predetermination show that the characters that you create are destined to be there -- your coming was foretold in the rings. You're free to fight against it, but there's nothing to support what you're saying. Saying "they're not special" cannot be argued for and your attempts to do so aren't coherent.

I will also note, because this seems to be difficult for you, that when you are destined to do something or be something that does mean you are special. You are free to reject it, because the Void is a tricky buggar, but even if you reject every time you're destined to be or do something (Zul has seen the Horde characters in his visions, as an example) that doesn't make your argument coherent.

If you were to instantly awake as an Undead Paladin (something that is Unique/Rare) then you're special from the get-go and this immediately clashes with the whole point of why there are class/race restrictions in the first place. This is why I stated how there are only "Hero Classes" not "Hero races". You're only just above a common civilian when you begin your journey. So you obviously cannot be something that is Unique/Rare in your society if the narrative in the beginning is you're a regular joe-schmoe.

You are not any more special than being a Forsaken Priest who uses the Light. Your weird head-canon makes you unable to recognize that a Human who was a Paladin and is resurrected as a Forsaken Paladin is no more special than a Human who was a Priest and is resurrected as a Forsaken Priest. Just because something is not currently in the game (i.e.: Dwarven Shaman, pre-Cata) does not mean something does not exist or is some strange, rare entity. You even mentioned the Wildhammer clan, who did bring Shamanism to the Dwarves, but they aren't special.

I hope this was spelled out enough for you, I tried my best to fully explain stuff instead of assuming you can infer/deduce information given within a specific context.

All that you've shown is that you did indeed lie multiple times and cannot make a coherent argument. But I will congratulate your, albeit unwilling, progress from Undead Paladin would explode to Undead Paladin would be special, though the word that I think would be more apt is rare.

I would also like to note that you don't understand what hero class means, so I'll link you the Gamepedia article relating to it.

"Hero class" meant that the DK started at a higher level (and also with a lot of blue gear and so on). We thought it made sense for the DK story because you're treated as a high-level character and veteran of past events. We didn't think that made as much sense for the monk, especially when there were so many low-level pandaren running around, and the (perhaps flimsy) justification for non-pandaren monks learning how to be monks from the pandaren. We might very well use hero classes again if it makes sense for a future class though."

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Hero_class

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Didn't they hint that we could possibly see Zandalari Paladin in the future? Just saying anything is possible if they want it.

There was discussion during beta whether Zandalari would get Paladin, there are even noted Holy Warriors of the Loa.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=282240/...adins-spoilers

[Santti]

I could see it happen. The Night Elves see and feel the warmth of light in Darnassus.

[Zandalariprelate]

Didn't they hint that we could possibly see Zandalari Paladin in the future? Just saying anything is possible if they want it.

Sorry to ask but when they hint about that?

[FlubberPuddy]

SNIP

Here you go man have a good read and expand your knowledge on the subject from a topic not even a year ago where people discuss the whole Paladin vs Priest debate/ Undead/Forsaken Paladin possibility etc.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...sible-spoilers

You will find the sources for where there are differences between Light in a Paladin and Priest as well from Blizzard themselves since you like those so much.

They even bring up Sir Zeliek as well (Spoiler Alert: He's controlled against his will). So you've been lying this whole time about Sir Zeliek being some kind of proof that we can have player character Paladins who have their own free will by trying to bring up a guy that's being mind-controlled and thus isn't using his powers out of faith but because he's compelled to. Good job man.

Again, this topic has been brought up so often that everyone has common knowledge of the answers to the same questions always brought up.

I'm surprised you were not part of that thread.

Here I even did a google search for you:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=_WK...60.lJChrW82Emk

Bottom line to all of this: Current Forsaken will never get the Paladin class option. It will only come through some Allied Race Undead IF it were to even happen. So far, there has been nothing that shows an Undead with free will able to wield Light as a Paladin <-- Something that needs to happen if you "don't want to break current lore".

Educate yourself and stop lying about things, like waving Sir Zeliek around as proof when he is mind-controlled.

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Sorry to ask but when they hint about that?

Someone asked in one of the Q/As if what happened to Rezan means Zandalari Paladins are not going to be available for the race when they come out, or something like that.

Then Ion gave the response that "well we'll see" and explained that what we saw so far of the Rezan story is just the first part or something like that, and could the Zandalari somehow find a different avenue to reconnect with the Light or whatever.

Basically he went "Could it happen? Find out in the next episode of DRAGON BALL Z!!"

[Zandalariprelate]

Someone asked in one of the Q/As if what happened to Rezan means Zandalari Paladins are not going to be available for the race when they come out, or something like that.

Then Ion gave the response that "well we'll see" and explained that what we saw so far of the Rezan story is just the first part or something like that, and could the Zandalari somehow find a different avenue to reconnect with the Light or whatever.

Basically he went "Could it happen? Find out in the next episode of DRAGON BALL Z!!"

That smells so fishy, and considering the return of Vol'jin, there is little chance from Rezan to came back to take the spotlight for a while because his role is being taked and probably the zandalar story will go foward to the azshara and the war storyline, maybe by the end of the expansion the developers pulls a questline for Tidesages teach more Kultirans about being shamans and the Zandalar bring Rezan back to fight against the void with paladin trolls

Sorry to interrump about your discussion about the paladin undeads but I think there is a high chance for that to happend considering Blizzard is really pushing a lot of possibilities even though they might look very bizarre, the whole plot of calia lightbound, the light dreadlord and void elves are the best examples and if the rumors about Calia and the Sa'ra planning to resurrect Uther because their new army will need a commander, then anything can happend from now on

[Maleific]

Zandalari and Nightborne Paladins please.

[Deleted]

That smells so fishy, and considering the return of Vol'jin, there is little chance from Rezan to came back to take the spotlight for a while because his role is being taked and probably the zandalar story will go foward to the azshara and the war storyline, maybe by the end of the expansion the developers pulls a questline for Tidesages teach more Kultirans about being shamans and the Zandalar bring Rezan back to fight against the void with paladin trolls

Sorry to interrump about your discussion about the paladin undeads but I think there is a high chance for that to happend considering Blizzard is really pushing a lot of possibilities even though they might look very bizarre, the whole plot of calia lightbound, the light dreadlord and void elves are the best examples and if the rumors about Calia and the Sa'ra planning to resurrect Uther because their new army will need a commander, then anything can happend from now on

I don't care if we get Forsaken Paladins or not. It's also derailing the topic. But I think that the Zandalari should get Paladins, just because Alliance already has more Shaman options than the Horde has Paladin options. One more option for Paladins on the Horde should be there, and Zandalari are the perfect candidates.

Alliance Paladins are a totally different thing for me, and in this regard, Blizzard can add as many race options as they like because Paladins are rooted in the Alliance. Night Elves would make sense regarding the latest development of the Class Orders in Legion.

The only relevant comparison to Horde Paladins are Alliance Shamans. And with the Pandaren and all Allied Races, Alliance has more options for Shamans than the Horde has for Paladins. This is the only imbalance that has to be corrected to some degree.

[FlubberPuddy]

That smells so fishy, and considering the return of Vol'jin, there is little chance from Rezan to came back to take the spotlight for a while because his role is being taked and probably the zandalar story will go foward to the azshara and the war storyline, maybe by the end of the expansion the developers pulls a questline for Tidesages teach more Kultirans about being shamans and the Zandalar bring Rezan back to fight against the void with paladin trolls

Sorry to interrump about your discussion about the paladin undeads but I think there is a high chance for that to happend considering Blizzard is really pushing a lot of possibilities even though they might look very bizarre, the whole plot of calia lightbound, the light dreadlord and void elves are the best examples and if the rumors about Calia and the Sa'ra planning to resurrect Uther because their new army will need a commander, then anything can happend from now on

Sorry what I meant was not that Rezan is the focus but that storyline for the Prelates and their loss of Light isn't over basically.

Also I'm down for Undead Paladins happening, I wish there were a lot more Paladin class options frankly, especially on Alliance side and no having another dwarf or another draenei isn't the same as having four distinct options like how there are Shaman Orcs/Taurens/Trolls/Goblins.

Blizzard can obviously like whatever lore they like, but as I've said: I don't believe we'll ever get the Paladin option added to the currently playable Forsaken. It will come through a new Allied race, whether that is Lightbound or whatever else.

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I think any race that has both priests and warriors should be able to have some type of holy warrior (paladin) class. Perhaps by other names and some different 'flavor' abilities.

Same, I'm not sure why Blizzard is so reluctant on giving a variety of Paladin race options, other than Demonhunters (2 options), Paladins and Druids are the next most in being the most race restrictive with only 7 options each. Whereas Shamans have 11 options total and the rest of the classes have 12+ options total.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Here you go man have a good read and expand your knowledge on the subject from a topic not even a year ago where people discuss the whole Paladin vs Priest debate/ Undead/Forsaken Paladin possibility etc.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...sible-spoilers

You will find the sources for where there are differences between Light in a Paladin and Priest as well from Blizzard themselves since you like those so much.

They even bring up Sir Zeliek as well (Spoiler Alert: He's controlled against his will). So you've been lying this whole time about Sir Zeliek being some kind of proof that we can have player character Paladins who have their own free will by trying to bring up a guy that's being mind-controlled and thus isn't using his powers out of faith but because he's compelled to. Good job man.

I see Aquamonkey's post regarding Paladin being filled with the Light, fair enough I've never seen him lie or strawman as you have so I'll take his word for it; however that doesn't support what you've said that Undead using the Light would explode, which was the first argument that you made as to why Undead Paladin could not exist.

Also in regards to Sir Zeliek, I'm not the one who has been consistently mentioning him -- you have. You've built a strawman which you're attacking. My reasoning for why undead Paladin could exist does not die on that hill. That said, it does not matter that he was being controlled. It's wholly irrelevant. His will was tied to that of his master and when he's told to do something when enslaved then he'll do it.
Is he an undead that can channel the Holy Light? Yes.
Does he explode like you said an undead who is a Paladin would? No.

Bottom line to all of this: Current Forsaken will never get the Paladin class option. It will only come through some Allied Race Undead IF it were to even happen. So far, there has been nothing that shows an Undead with free will able to wield Light as a Paladin <-- Something that needs to happen if you "don't want to break current lore".

This is not a difficult: there does not need to be a ubiquitous example of something existing for something to be possible. Whether or not you think Blizzard will add it is irrelevant. The reason why I brought up Monks, Dwarven Shaman, and Tauren Paladin is because they're all things that were possible and simply had no examples of until implemented. Undead Paladin are possible, that's the point. They could be added without Blizzard needing to retcon or break any old lore.

Educate yourself and stop lying about things, like waving Sir Zeliek around as proof when he is mind-controlled.

Not once have I used Sir Zeliek as the main reason as to why it's possible, you've lied again. I do not understand why you feel the need to incessantly build strawmen and lie.

[Zandalariprelate]

Sorry what I meant was not that Rezan is the focus but that storyline for the Prelates and their loss of Light isn't over basically.

Also I'm down for Undead Paladins happening, I wish there were a lot more Paladin class options frankly, especially on Alliance side and no having another dwarf or another draenei isn't the same as having four distinct options like how there are Shaman Orcs/Taurens/Trolls/Goblins.

Blizzard can obviously like whatever lore they like, but as I've said: I don't believe we'll ever get the Paladin option added to the currently playable Forsaken. It will come through a new Allied race, whether that is Lightbound or whatever else.

Well the Prelates will need some loa of the light to draw their power, maybe a son of Rezan but I hope they don't pull something like zandalar making contact with a Naaru to push even more the war of light and void, we have the shadowland build up already but surely the paladin zandalar will be a stand by until blizzard says if the kultirans will be shamans too just for even the things.

Btw I was actually agree with you about the current forsakens wouldn't be paladins, heck I doubt we are ever gonna see any major change with the base playables race like in cataclysm, that is why they are adding the new sub-races to fill that role, wonder if blizzard will continue to add even more than 6 races by each faction(12 races in total)

[FlubberPuddy]

you've lied again

I don't think you understand what it means to lie, but keep on jerking to it. It's good enough for me that you see there's a difference between the way a Paladin uses the Light and Priests do, and understand that just because there are Forsaken Priests playable doesn't mean Forsaken Paladins will happen.

It's never a question of "can" but "will", having discussions about can is idiotic. Anything CAN happen. Will it? Is a better question. There's always exceptions to rules, but not for our playable races which is what matters. That's the only point that matters at all throughout this entire convo.

[Gavll]

They should delete all non-Human or Dwarf paladins

[FlubberPuddy]

Well the Prelates will need some loa of the light to draw their power, maybe a son of Rezan but I hope they don't pull something like zandalar making contact with a Naaru to push even more the war of light and void, we have the shadowland build up already but surely the paladin zandalar will be a stand by until blizzard says if the kultirans will be shamans too just for even the things.

Btw I was actually agree with you about the current forsakens wouldn't be paladins, heck I doubt we are ever gonna see any major change with the base playables race like in cataclysm, that is why they are adding the new sub-races to fill that role, wonder if blizzard will continue to add even more than 6 races by each faction(12 races in total)

That "no" wasn't geared towards you, it was more a general "no" to anyone that sees the post and thinks an extra dwarf or draenei is the same as getting an entirely new race to be a Paladin.

I think Blizzard will probably add 1 more race to each side past KT/Zandalari this expansion, but going forward I would be surprised if we saw a race added in the next xpac UNLESS it was connected to a new class that comes with the expansion.

But yeah I agree, hoping it's another loa of some kind and not some spacey Naaru.

[Theoris]

I'd be down. Might never see Zandalari paladins, though.

[Zyky]

Your Counter to Zandalari Paladins is Dark Iron Dwarf Shamans.

No the counter to Dark Iron Shaman was Mag'har Priest. The counter to Zandalari Paladin will be a less conventional class for Kul'Tiran Human, if they even go back to allowing Zandalari Paladin in the first place.

[Magical Mudcrab]

I don't think you understand what it means to lie, but keep on jerking to it. It's good enough for me that you see there's a difference between the way a Paladin uses the Light and Priests do, and understand that just because there are Forsaken Priests playable doesn't mean Forsaken Paladins will happen.

It's never a question of "can" but "will", having discussions about can is idiotic. Anything CAN happen. Will it? Is a better question. There's always exceptions to rules, but not for our playable races which is what matters. That's the only point that matters at all throughout this entire convo.

I call you a liar because you've changed your argument every post and have been attacking points that aren't central to what people have said and removed from context. You've constructed strawmen then acted as though you've made a point.

Regarding the "can" vs. "will", that's not the point. The point is that it's possible and that it can be done without requiring the writers to break any current lore. That has been my point, and has been the consistent theme of my posts.

[FlubberPuddy]

I call you a liar because you've changed your argument every post and have been attacking points that aren't central to what people have said and removed from context. You've constructed strawmen then acted as though you've made a point.

Regarding the "can" vs. "will", that's not the point. The point is that it's possible and that it can be done without requiring the writers to break any current lore. That has been my point, and has been the consistent theme of my posts.

I have never changed my argument at all, it's you who latches onto something singular and miss the forest for the trees. My OP to your reply starts out general, then hones in on the playable forsaken character request, go re-read it in its entirety instead of latching onto the first paragraph only.

There's nothing more to be said on this tired subject other than Forsaken won't ever get that option, heck even Maxrokur understood what I was talking about this entire time. Every little detail doesn't need to spelled out (except I guess for you it does) yet you're the one talking about "removed from context".

Here I'll leave you with a thought exercise: Worgen won't ever have the Paladin class option either. Now what is it that prevents Void Elves, Forsaken, and Worgen from ever getting Paladin as a class option other than "Because Blizzard says so"?

Have fun

[Magical Mudcrab]

I have never changed my argument at all, it's you who latches onto something singular and miss the forest for the trees. My OP to your reply starts out general, then hones in on the playable forsaken character request, go re-read it in its entirety instead of latching onto the first paragraph only.

With the way Blizzard as written the lore, you literally cannot be a being of death (undead) or void and be a Paladin. Their current lore literally says that Paladins are beings of Light (means your entire essence is infused with it) and that if a being of Light and Void were to even touch then it causes an explosion or something (think of how the Twisting Nether was created). I'm pretty sure this applies to Undead as well.

Your leading point was that undead would explode. Everything else you posted can be boiled down to:
> Priests and Paladin use the Light differently.
> Player characters aren't "special".
> There aren't a lot of examples of Undead Paladin.

There's nothing more to be said on this tired subject other than Forsaken won't ever get that option, heck even Maxrokur understood what I was talking about this entire time. Every little detail doesn't need to spelled out (except I guess for you it does) yet you're the one talking about "removed from context".

You consistently have built strawmen and attacked those, going at things that weren't the focus and intentionally misrepresenting what people said. You have been quoted in full context and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You don't even defend your posts, you just ignore the portions that call out segments that you would like to distance yourself from.

other than "Because Blizzard says so"?

If this is what you think is analogous then you don't understand what's being said. It doesn't matter if there are examples of it currently, can it happen without breaking the current lore? If so, then it's possible. Whether or not it's likely is another question, but your ever so erudite thoughts on undead and that they would explode, and your derivations from that, didn't hold up to scrutiny and then you got angry.

Have fun lying and building strawmen, because that's all that you've really done so far.

[FlubberPuddy]

SNIP

Nah I don't defend because your entire focus/point wasn't even the point I was making in the first place.

Also "Then you got angry" at no point was I ever, but you like to create these fake realities it seems so have at it.

As I said, somebody else understood what I was saying. It's clearly not that hard, except I guess for you it is/was.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Nah I don't defend because your entire focus/point wasn't even the point I was making in the first place.

Also "Then you got angry" at no point was I ever, but you like to create these fake realities it seems so have at it.

As I said, somebody else understood what I was saying. It's clearly not that hard, except I guess for you it is/was.

You don't defend or counter most of the points made against your posts because you can't. It becomes obvious when I go through point-by-point and you'll simply omit the portions you can't, and then you blatantly lie about things that people have said..

You started becoming hostile and condescending once you were called out. It's not a fake reality, it's an assumption based on how you're acting. It's a little sad and childish.

The person is saying they agree that Forsaken Paladin are unlikely, which was never the point I was contending. The fact that you think it is means you never read my posts, which is a problem on your end. Moreover, their belief that Forsaken Paladin is unlikely is predicated on it being unlikely for there to be any major changes to the base playable races, not anything related to lore.