Malfurion and Druidism's Dark Side

[vertigo12]

@nerv234

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ghost, do read up on it but I'll provide these details here as one of the subsection entry:
"The term "ghost" is sometimes applied to any undead incorporeal being"

Ghostly beings
Banshee
Shade
Spectre
Troll spectre
Spirit Healer
Val'kyr
Wisp
Wraith
Spirit beast
Spectral gryphon
Spectral saber
Spirit wolf

Here's what it means to be undead:
"The undead are beings that have died and have had their souls trapped between life and death. They derive power from necromantic magic.[1] Most common examples being zombies or ghosts, undead are typically mindless, bloodthirsty fiends hostile toward any living thing that comes across their path. But some have managed to retain their memories and be who they were in life."

The list of Incorporeal Undead:
Incorporeal
Incorporeal undead are ghosts and spirits of the dead.

IconSmall Banshee.gif Banshee
IconSmall Ghost.gifIconSmall GhostCaptain.gifIconSmall GhostMogu.gif Ghost
IconSmall Ghost.gif Phantom
IconSmall SpectralGryphon.gif Spectral gryphon
IconSmall RevenantDeath.gif Revenant
IconSmall Shade.gif Shade
IconSmall Spectre.gif Spectre
IconSmall Val'kyr.gif Val'kyr
IconSmall SpiritHealer.gif Spirit healer
IconSmall Wisp.gif Wisp
IconSmall Wraith.gif Wraith

Your gamepedia Banshee entry:

"Banshees are incorporeal undead elf women, known for their unholy screams and the unsettling ability to possess the bodies of their enemies. Highborne and night elf banshees have existed since the time of the War of the Ancients,[1] but many were also created when the Scourge invaded Quel'Thalas and slaughtered the majority of the kingdom's high elf inhabitants during the Third War. Many banshees now serve the ruler of the Forsaken, the "Banshee Queen" Sylvanas Windrunner."

[Briselody]

- Wraith/Spectre are unrest spirits and souls of male NE.

There are tons of female night elf spectres. See: Farondis's entire court.

You're using wowpedia as some sort of hard factual source for this, which is a poor choice.

[Florena]

You mean Malfurion using the Horn of Cenarius back in WC3 and the end cinematics where Archimonde got consumed by those wish? Or even Battle of Mount Hyjal raid in CoT?

Just nit picking here but these are the same event, the CoT Hyjal raid is just a retelling of that mission in WC 3. So this is kind lif like saying 'you mean that time Arthas purged Stratholme? Or that time we went to the COT and Arthas purged Stratholme?'

[nerv234]

@nerv234

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ghost, do read up on it but I'll provide these details here as one of the subsection entry:
"The term "ghost" is sometimes applied to any undead incorporeal being"

Ghostly beings
Banshee
Shade
Spectre
Troll spectre
Spirit Healer
Val'kyr
Wisp
Wraith
Spirit beast
Spectral gryphon
Spectral saber
Spirit wolf

Here's what it means to be undead:
"The undead are beings that have died and have had their souls trapped between life and death. They derive power from necromantic magic.[1] Most common examples being zombies or ghosts, undead are typically mindless, bloodthirsty fiends hostile toward any living thing that comes across their path. But some have managed to retain their memories and be who they were in life."

The list of Incorporeal Undead:
Incorporeal
Incorporeal undead are ghosts and spirits of the dead.

IconSmall Banshee.gif Banshee
IconSmall Ghost.gifIconSmall GhostCaptain.gifIconSmall GhostMogu.gif Ghost
IconSmall Ghost.gif Phantom
IconSmall SpectralGryphon.gif Spectral gryphon
IconSmall RevenantDeath.gif Revenant
IconSmall Shade.gif Shade
IconSmall Spectre.gif Spectre
IconSmall Val'kyr.gif Val'kyr
IconSmall SpiritHealer.gif Spirit healer
IconSmall Wisp.gif Wisp
IconSmall Wraith.gif Wraith

Your gamepedia Banshee entry:

"Banshees are incorporeal undead elf women, known for their unholy screams and the unsettling ability to possess the bodies of their enemies. Highborne and night elf banshees have existed since the time of the War of the Ancients,[1] but many were also created when the Scourge invaded Quel'Thalas and slaughtered the majority of the kingdom's high elf inhabitants during the Third War. Many banshees now serve the ruler of the Forsaken, the "Banshee Queen" Sylvanas Windrunner."

Wall of text(work on editing text to more readable form), but you have a point... about night elven banshees. Still nothing about druidism part of creating whisps. Btw. i don't think that wowpedia is reliable source of informations.

[vertigo12]

There are tons of female night elf spectres. See: Farondis's entire court.

You're using wowpedia as some sort of hard factual source for this, which is a poor choice.

Which uses wowhead and wowdb both as data providers as well and have been edited by the community. Pretty much are submitted and collected from WoW players. They extract the details and data from the client. If w
only World of Warcraft.com have detailed entry or have an encyclopedia of their own, then I would cite it as source but apparently you can check it out yourself. Gamepedia data and entried are as old as WoW. Most quests and NPCs are provided by Allakhazam and Thottbot which have entries even prior to various wow iteration and changes.

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There are tons of female night elf spectres. See: Farondis's entire court.

You're using wowpedia as some sort of hard factual source for this, which is a poor choice.

Banshee exist even prior to the appearance of Broken Shore. I have fought Banshees and Spectres in Azshara during vanilla/TBC.

[ohwell]

And do you have any source of information that night elves can turn into banshee?
Isn't that the Arthas necrotic magic that turned high elven females into banshee?
You take for granted that night elves can became banshee too, but it is clear to me that Arthas made Banshees.
No Banshee before Arthas attack of Quel'Thalas, no night elven banshee preety clearly means that this isn't possible to create banshee without necrotic magic, possibly other races could became banshee too but not night elven thing.




... probably by magic of the druids? Why ancestors of the Night elves don't became whisps, why their descendants don't became whisps? Why only nigt elves and why there was no whisps until Malfurion with Tyrande takes rulership over night elves?

If you say that there was whisp before sunderring then why he didn't use them to defend against legion's first invasion?

I'm fairly sure there's been banshees in Kalimdor and Arthas wasn't there.

[vertigo12]

Just nit picking here but these are the same event, the CoT Hyjal raid is just a retelling of that mission in WC 3. So this is kind lif like saying 'you mean that time Arthas purged Stratholme? Or that time we went to the COT and Arthas purged Stratholme?'

There are variations. WC3 CoT, Arthras was with Jaina. That section wasn't shown in CoT:CoS

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He isn't controlling spirits... the wisps have independence. They were answering his call. In WCIII you control wisp units, and you aren't assuming the role of Malfurion to do it, you control him too.

Wisps willingly extinguished themselves to aid Malfurion, a powerful protector of the forest, when he called. That's all.

You're attributing some sort of magical control over an unconventional army where there is none. Wisps aren't really undead, they are pure spirits, and they hang around of their own accord, uncontrolled by anyone. It would be the same as claiming that Anduin has magical control of his human army. Sure wisps aren't alive, but they aren't dominated undead either.

Yes you can view it that way and that magic is called leadership. He is the king of Stormwind and the alliance of humankind after all.

[Florena]

There are variations. WC3 CoT, Arthras was with Jaina. That section wasn't shown in CoT:CoS

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Yes you can view it that way and that magic is called leadership. He is the king of Stormwind and the alliance of humankind after all.

They're the same events. Archimonde was not defeated twice at Hyjal, and Arthas did not purge Stratholme more than once. Not sure what you're even getting at with Jaina, she leaves before Arthas starts the purge in both versions.

[Briselody]

Which uses wowhead and wowdb both as data provider as well as edited by the community which pretty much are submitted by wow players. They extract the details and data from the client. If world of Warcraft.com have detailed entry or encyclopedia then I would cite it as source but apparently you can check it out yourself. Gamepedia is as old as WoW, most quests and NPCs are provided by Allakhazam and Thottbot and have entries even prior to various wow iteration and changes.

Okay but it's frequently wrong or makes up its own connections to make things work, kind of similar to what you're doing now. The only "hard source" for Warcraft lore is the Chronicles, and even that can be iffy.

Banshee exist even prior to the appearance of Broken Shore. I have fought Banshees and Spectres in Azshara during vanilla/TBC.

I... okay? Not sure what your point is. I never said banshees don't exist.

[Alpharius]

You mean the fact that spirits of dead night elves who are heavily connected to the forest answered call of archdruid who is also connected to the forest ?

Also here is flaw in your "grand discovery" - if malfurion really controlled dead, wisp wall wouldn't weaken after forest being disturbed.

Didn't you recently say the spirits in the warfront are necromancy

Nice to see you that you adjust what it means to control the dead as long as it fits your bait threads

[Arrashi]

Didn't you recently say the spirits in the warfront are necromancy

Nice to see you that you adjust what it means to control the dead as long as it fits your bait threads

You mean ripping spirits from fresh corpses and pitting them against your enemies is identical to what malfy is doing ?

[Bling]

The OP does bring up an interesting point. I want to bring up a part of the War of the Ancients book. Krassius gets shot down in dragon form and is dying, I believe it was Deathwing that did this. Malfurion tries to help him but his wounds are too great. So he has to go further, he pulls all the life from all the surrounding country side and channels it into Krassius. This heals Krassius but it kills all the life in a large area around them.

This was kind of like the Fel in the Warcraft movie. Malfurion took like from one thing to heal another. What's to say Malfurion couldn't transfer spirits into constructs just like the Drust? After all this was 10,000 years ago, I'm sure Malfurion is far wiser now.

[Alpharius]

You mean ripping spirits from fresh corpses and pitting them against your enemies is identical to what malfy is doing ?

Neither of them are necromancy and just aspects of their respective magic.

Malfurion calling upon the spirits is part of druidism as they are connected to the forest.

These souls weren't ripped out either. It's closer to what Whitemane is doing which is certainly not necromancy as she used to be part of the scarlet crusade. It's simple resurrection, but not as potent as hers.


But if you consider that necromancy, I'd guess Malfurion is the night elf version of the lich king.

[huth]

I'm fairly sure there's been banshees in Kalimdor and Arthas wasn't there.

Actually, he was. Illidan sees him turning into a Death Knight there.

[ohwell]

Actually, he was. Illidan sees him turning into a Death Knight there.

I more meant that he didn't bring any invasion force. That was supposed to be a subtle mission. He definitely didn't create half of the banshees if any of them in Kalimdor.

Also you have it backwards. He already was a death knight. He saw Illidan become whatever he is now.

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Neither of them are necromancy and just aspects of their respective magic.

Malfurion calling upon the spirits is part of druidism as they are connected to the forest.

These souls weren't ripped out either. It's closer to what Whitemane is doing which is certainly not necromancy as she used to be part of the scarlet crusade. It's simple resurrection, but not as potent as hers.


But if you consider that necromancy, I'd guess Malfurion is the night elf version of the lich king.

The Stromgarde one is necromancy because the spirits were actually raised. Wisps are naturally there and not necromancy. There is no control factor to bring the wisps into being whereas those ghosts were brought out specifically by power.

[Arrashi]

These souls weren't ripped out either. It's closer to what Whitemane is doing which is certainly not necromancy as she used to be part of the scarlet crusade. It's simple resurrection, but not as potent as hers.

Its a simple resurrection that creates undead. Aka "Totally not a necromancy".

[Eazy]

NOBODY IN THE NET NOT IN ANY FORUMS NOR YOUTUBERS HAVE MENTIONED THIS YET. NOT ON REDDIT, NOT EVEN ON BELLULAR, ACCOLON'S, PYROMANCERS OR ANY OTHER TINFOIL HAT LORE SPECIALISTS.

Just as nobody is screaming or making youtube videos about how oxygen is used to keep us alive. We just knew it from the beginning, nothing ordinary, just logic.

People are not writing about such a logical things everywhere.

[Proskill]

I dunno mudmug also can control "spirits" to destructive degree.

OT: Is it meant to be fanfiction or "I discovered something noone ever seen" thread ?

i want to know how u look like irl. got any pics?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

War of Thorns was never a battle for life. It was a battle for the preservation of undeath for Sylvanas. Malfurion even used the dead to deal with Sylvanas. We have no clue if a Night Elf wishes to become a wisp and be forever servants of nature or are they willing enough to commit suicide attack when they use their wisp form towards offensive or defensive goals.

Preservation of undeath is forwarding the cause of Death. Blizzard want the story to be that Sylvanas, champion of death, attacked Malfurion Stormrage, paragon of life.

As I said, they could have framed it differently if they'd wanted to, but they don't seem to want to.

[Rhaide]

War of Thorns was never a battle for life. It was a battle for the preservation of undeath for Sylvanas. Malfurion even used the dead to deal with Sylvanas. We have no clue if a Night Elf wishes to become a wisp and be forever servants of nature or are they willing enough to commit suicide attack when they use their wisp form towards offensive or defensive goals.

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There is a big difference in the display of power for Tyrande to summon his love from his sleep vs. Malfurion sounding the horn to call to aid all the living Night Elves and their Undead counterpart - the spirits of Night Elves, the wisp.

Like I've said there is a huge gap of power level because we haven't seen Tyrande used the Horn to summon wisp at her disposal as of yet. Only Malfurion does. They have been only introduced during WC3 as a race. If the owner of the Horn, Cenarius himself, shows how the Nightmare can take over them, why Malfurion shows tremendous resistance against others those who already have the status of wild gods? Can you imagine if he becomes influenced by the Nightmare and become one of it's allies.

You're still disregarding the fact that wisps are commanded by many night elves, not just malfurion. They literally sacrifice themselves to speed the growth of ancients and sap the mana of enemies at the command of their night elven brothers and sisters. Remember, you AREN'T malfurion in WCIII and you still command the wisps to do these things. Simply having a method of calling LOUDLY for their aid and having a bunch respond doesn't tie him any more closely to the darkness than a bullhorn ties a human commander to the darkness.

The power comes from Cenarius, the demigod of nature, it's not surprising the horn can literally call nature spirits to a user's aid. There is nothing REMOTELY necrotic about it, you're really reaching hard. This is jet fuel/steel beams levels of conspiracy.

Not saying Malfurion won't end up being a bad guy (I don't like him at all personally), but this is a really bad argument for it. And if he becomes corrupted by the old gods, then yeah, obviously he'll be bad. But he shows NO signs of it at the current time.

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I more meant that he didn't bring any invasion force. That was supposed to be a subtle mission. He definitely didn't create half of the banshees if any of them in Kalimdor.

Also you have it backwards. He already was a death knight. He saw Illidan become whatever he is now.

You guys are having a pointless argument, banshees existed long before Arthas... it's in their bio.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Banshee#cite_note-MoM-0