Malfurion and Druidism's Dark Side

[Alpharius]

Actually a souls of night elves who became part of the forest decided to answer the call of archdruid. Its just a "bit" diffrent.

Than again, im starting to think you are incapable of grasping such nuance.

I mean I am just imitating your logic at this point.

Going by yourself King Terenas resurrecting us mid fight vs the lich king is necromancy as we have only seen necromancers do that.

[Arrashi]

I mean I am just imitating your logic at this point.

Going by yourself King Terenas resurrecting us mid fight vs the lich king is necromancy as we have only seen necromancers do that.

Nah you are not, you are being contrarian for a sake of being contrarian regardless of how stupid it makes you look like. In other words - you played yourself.

And you do understand that terenas actually resurrects us ? As in we are back alive ? And not some random undead ?

[Doffen]

Nah you are not, you are being contrarian for a sake of being contrarian regardless of how stupid it makes you look like. In other words - you played yourself.

You are describing yourself. Maybe time for a self-reflection. Same as you suddenly turn away from "oh night elves and their trees, not true" to suddenly come and say it actually has a meaning.

[Alpharius]

Nah you are not, you are being contrarian for a sake of being contrarian regardless of how stupid it makes you look like. In other words - you played yourself.

And you do understand that terenas actually resurrects us ? As in we are back alive ? And not some random undead ?

I mean you are the person who keeps changing goal posts to what necromancy even means. For some apparent reason priests resurrecting soldiers mid fight is necromancy according to yourself. And that it can't be coincidental because some random scrub priests apparently can't manage to fail to properly resurrect them for the entire battle, despite it being stated that your body needs to be in a good enough condition to revive which I even linked you in the form of the scarlet monastery quests where we had to make sure Whitemane was stabbed twice with specific swords, so her body is unable to sustain her soul.


Yes, I do understand that. But you don't seem to understand that the priests in the warfront are doing the exact same thing just that unlike Terenas they aren't powered by all the spirit bound by frostmourne rebelling against the Lich King.

[Arrashi]

You are describing yourself. Maybe time for a self-reflection. Same as you suddenly turn away from "oh night elves and their trees, not true" to suddenly come and say it actually has a meaning.

The diffrence is that night elf don't raise the dead to serve them.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean you are the person who keeps changing goal posts to what necromancy even means. For some apparent reason priests resurrecting soldiers mid fight is necromancy according to yourself. And that it can't be coincidental because some random scrub priests apparently can't manage to fail to properly resurrect them for the entire battle, despite it being stated that your body needs to be in a good enough condition to revive which I even linked you in the form of the scarlet monastery quests where we had to make sure Whitemane was stabbed twice with specific swords, so her body is unable to sustain her soul.


Yes, I do understand that. But you don't seem to understand that the priests in the warfront are doing the exact same thing just that unlike Terenas they aren't powered by all the spirit bound by frostmourne rebelling against the Lich King.

Its almost like those priests don't actually ressurrect those soldiers but turn them into undead cannon fodder.

[Alpharius]

The diffrence is that night elf don't raise the dead to serve them.

- - - Updated - - -



Its almost like those priests don't actually ressurrect those soldiers but turn them into undead cannon fodder.

But don't necromancers usually manage to actually reanimate the body?

[Deleted]

I mean i wish the druids of Teldrassil would make a "rogue" faction. Related to just use nature magic in all its torns and decay.
I always liked the concept in D&D 2E there was a Druid subclass / spells that was all about this, spells that caused no plant life to appear(so nothing to farm) in scouring earth tactics. I want that to happpend, Ofc it wont happend because as blizzard have said" we only use what of the story we want to tell" and right now Sylvans is the biggest MC, and then theme of death. no space for elves.

[Arrashi]

But don't necromancers usually manage to actually reanimate the body?

Gothic. The. Fuckin. Harvester.

[Alpharius]

Gothic. The. Fuckin. Harvester.

Are you getting tilted by now?

[Doffen]

The diffrence is that night elf don't raise the dead to serve them.

Yeah, totally. You are correct. What you wrote on the first page in this thread is nice reading. It's just weird to see you come with all that after bashing the Night Elves and their relations to the nature before, to come with all that. Maybe I was just projecting things before

[vertigo12]

It wasn't, they are not magi and don't do necromancy. It falls into arcane magic category

- - - Updated - - -



Implying that it was their intention. Jumping into conclusion that all alliance priests were necromancers in disguise is quite ridiculous. Especially while blizzard telegraphs these resurrections by putting a giant pillar of the light above bodies, just like we see when all other priests do the resurrection.

Also alliance death knights and warlocks actively practice necromancy and black magic, why the hate all of the sudden?

You have Benedictus playing along as the good priest and just broke his cover during Cata.

So does Staghelm. Who knows they might been swayed while performing their class role i.e. Archdruid and Bishop. Staghelm though is on a different league and went Fire mode.

[KainneAbsolute]

It was mentioned in this forum, there is a topic about the drust.

[huth]

He does commune with elemental spirits and his orc ancestors but by no means he ask them to materialize and fight for him or even use their souls as sacrifice to either hurt the enemies or protect himself.

Which is why he's a necromancer and those called necromancers aren't. Necromancy is communing with the spirits of the dead, not raising their bodies.

[vertigo12]

I mean i wish the druids of Teldrassil would make a "rogue" faction. Related to just use nature magic in all its torns and decay.
I always liked the concept in D&D 2E there was a Druid subclass / spells that was all about this, spells that caused no plant life to appear(so nothing to farm) in scouring earth tactics. I want that to happpend, Ofc it wont happend because as blizzard have said" we only use what of the story we want to tell" and right now Sylvans is the biggest MC, and then theme of death. no space for elves.

The Burning of Teldrassil could sprout out Druid of the Flames but from a protagonistic PoV or they may welcome and embrace a Drust way of Druidism since they are one of the oldest race in Azeroth they particularly have so much knowledge about life and death. Nature and decay, life cycle.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean i wish the druids of Teldrassil would make a "rogue" faction. Related to just use nature magic in all its torns and decay.
I always liked the concept in D&D 2E there was a Druid subclass / spells that was all about this, spells that caused no plant life to appear(so nothing to farm) in scouring earth tactics. I want that to happpend, Ofc it wont happend because as blizzard have said" we only use what of the story we want to tell" and right now Sylvans is the biggest MC, and then theme of death. no space for elves.

They are turning slowly towards the theme of death. I just fanned the Flames even more by pointing out the dark side of Druidism. It is not all about life but it also has a subtle sway on spirits and use of death.

[Aucald]

Which is why he's a necromancer and those called necromancers aren't. Necromancy is communing with the spirits of the dead, not raising their bodies.

Traditional Necromancy is a form of divination in which one communes with the dead (specifically, in which one compels the truth or oracular predictions from the dead) - fantasy Necromancy, however, is more about the raising of the dead and compelling the risen dead into doing your will. Malfurion's call to the wisps could *technically* be called Necromancy but it really isn't, he's not suborning the wills of the dead or even compelling them, he's simply drawing them from the afterlife (presumably the Emerald Dream for the Kaldorei dead) and requesting their aid, which they freely give in defense of Kalimdor or Azeroth.

You could technically call Priestly Resurrection a form of Necromancy as it concerns interacting with a dead spirit, reuniting it with its corpse and returning it to life - but the element of compelling is likely absent, the spirit willingly re-enters its corpse and the Light heals the previously fatal wounds and returns the person to life. It's the domain of Shadow to forcibly compel this reunion, which is why the bonding is often imperfect and the result is a Ghoul or Zombie - the spirit does not wish to return to a corpse that will be under the control of the Necromancer, so the joining must be forced by other means.

[CreatureLives]

I've always wanted to see an dark side to nature. Not evil in the same way as the nightmare or the druids of Kul Tiras because that's not really "life/nature" based.

More dark in seeing how humanity is the enemy of nature. We are responsible for a lot of the destruction that happens to the planet.

I've said before that the Botani would have been a perfect enemy to tell that story with but you could easily do that with the some druids. Maybe some extreme parts of nature just decides that they've had enough of this Horde and Alliance war. Red and Blue. It's always about Red and Blue and nothing in between is ever treated with care. Maybe Green has finally had enough. That the way to save Azeroth is to remove the Alliance and Horde and have nature reclaim the planet.

That would also be a good idea for the reverse cataclysm I've been talking about in the past. instead of destroying the planet it's about healing the planet and removing the real threat - Us.

If not the Botani I think this would be a cool direction to take Malfurion. Malfurion has tried the peace thing but after Teldrassil, Darkshore, Ashenvale, hell you could even throw Pandaria in there it's very clear that peace is never going to happen as long as the Horde and Alliance are around.

[KainneAbsolute]

That's why I mentioned the newly highlighted form of Druidism which exist way back NE's form of Druidism which is Cenarion in nature. Drustvar vs. Zandalar vs. Darnassian.

Yeah. I like that all world building, and the origins of the drust arent clear. Maybe a step between vrykul and human. Also Bligthed lands...are a mid step btw shadowlands and emerald dream?

[vertigo12]

Which is why he's a necromancer and those called necromancers aren't. Necromancy is communing with the spirits of the dead, not raising their bodies.

Yes there is a thin line in between dabbling into necromancy vs. life/nature and that is purpose. We know the primary focus of nature magic is to sustain life, to nurture, for growth and not to harm.



When you use the corpse of the dead and turn them into a wall of wisp so that enemies passing through it become smithereens, do you consider it still an aspect of nature magic?

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah. I like that all world building, and the origins of the drust arent clear. Maybe a step between vrykul and human. Also Bligthed lands...are a mid step btw shadowlands and emerald dream?

I believe Thros the blighted land is similar to Emerald Dreamway but for Shadowlands. You can access every death's door and it"s realm like Helheim, Spirit realm, Bwonsamdi's death realm and even Shadowlands itself. They also use a tree for it which is Gol Inath.

- - - Updated - - -

Traditional Necromancy is a form of divination in which one communes with the dead (specifically, in which one compels the truth or oracular predictions from the dead) - fantasy Necromancy, however, is more about the raising of the dead and compelling the risen dead into doing your will. Malfurion's call to the wisps could *technically* be called Necromancy but it really isn't, he's not suborning the wills of the dead or even compelling them, he's simply drawing them from the afterlife (presumably the Emerald Dream for the Kaldorei dead) and requesting their aid, which they freely give in defense of Kalimdor or Azeroth.

You could technically call Priestly Resurrection a form of Necromancy as it concerns interacting with a dead spirit, reuniting it with its corpse and returning it to life - but the element of compelling is likely absent, the spirit willingly re-enters its corpse and the Light heals the previously fatal wounds and returns the person to life. It's the domain of Shadow to forcibly compel this reunion, which is why the bonding is often imperfect and the result is a Ghoul or Zombie - the spirit does not wish to return to a corpse that will be under the control of the Necromancer, so the joining must be forced by other means.

No wonder the old God's despise death. Because it is a means of escape from their curse but doesn't retcon if one dies will the curse of flesh be lifted if that someone is ressurected back to life or undead?

Yes everyone living in Azeroth turns into spirit and enters spirit realm trapped in it until someone from the world of the living communes with it and perform a necessary spell to cause Afterlife from a specific school of magic. Shaman/Druid/Monk using nature while Paladin/Shaman use holy and light. Warlocks and Death Knights uses death magic and the twisting nether.


There are different kinds of wisp. Another one is called Sprite. There is a chaos wisp and another one known as Kali.

[Dundebuns]

Pretty sure Life and Death are polar opposites on the wow picture of magic. You can have mastery of one or the other, they are mutually exclusive, just like the Fel (chaos) and the Arcane (Order), and Light and Shadow.

Sure they can both produce similar results, but they do it in different ways.

[vertigo12]

I mean I am just imitating your logic at this point.

Going by yourself King Terenas resurrecting us mid fight vs the lich king is necromancy as we have only seen necromancers do that.

You mean this

Here's an online video debate/discussion about DnD and concept of necromancy whether it is in it's fundamental state evil which a lot of fantasy genre could relate to and WoW is connected to.