I told you so on Beta - Player Feedback

[Charge me Doctor]

This is inaccurate as you can pull up screenshots from last blizzcon that showed an entire armor set of nothing but class specific traits to choose from.

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...mal/673312.jpg

I'm not sure how you can tell this looking at icons alone

[Deleted]

Hey! Psssshhht..... betas are not for testing but to create hype!

Also... "this sucks" feedback is more than enough.

People said, azerite, islands and warfronts sucked. Imagine if they removed it. Imagine how better BfA would be without these systems.

[Detheavn]

That's a problem too, either no feedback given , or in a non-contstructive way.

I'll place my bets on non constructive out of the two. You don't have to filter out noise if it's not given. With an automated system like the feedback used for quests or killing rares, this is a lot more streamlined than digging through the forums for valuable feedback.

I personally think a lot of feedback gets drowned out by people which have nothing of interest to add, and instead of just adding "I agree", or "I have the same issue" people get out of control and think "FFS FIX UR FUCKING GAME" is actually going to help, while it will sooner get a thread with valuable feedback closed.

I'd be all for it if blizzard would just remove beta rights for trolls and whiners so they can focus on people providing meaningful feedback, be it through the in-game form or on the forums. Just mark their accounts for 4 years with "no beta for you" for all of those who can't stay civil. Shouldn't be too hard to Implement.

I am in no way excusing Blizzrd though, as they should have taken control of this situation on multiple fronts.

[Charge me Doctor]

This was from a Q&A

Another point from Q&A with MMOC:


People were actually telling the ones giving feedback that oh wait for higher items. They came, nothing happened. Even before the core issue with why Azerite felt unrewarding was never taken into account.

Hell, Ion has even said that azerite armor was supposed to make it easy to determine whether something is an upgrade or not. And it has actually done the exact opposite, you can get an item that is 30ilvls higher and it is a DPS downgrade because traits.

Yet it doesn't say that traits will be gameplay changing, they are saying that they (perks) will be powerful, and at least i read their example as "stacking one azerite perk will give you 10% DPS increase, like legendary bracers were".

I believe that they didn't answered the question in the way they supposed to (dunno if on purpose or not), but even on beta it was clear that most azerite perks are passive bonuses or procs we have no control over, and stuff like "your scorch increases damage of next fireblast" were obviously there to change gameplay, but at this point the don't work, because it's still not worth risking munching your Pyroblast! proc to benefit from it (in a sense of keeping buff up for case of when you'll need to fireblast later, because, obviously, you won't get a heating up proc, then say "oh, i need to get a scorch buff up", cast scorch for pitiful amount of damage and go "oops it didn't crit, i guess i'll keep spamming fireball lol"). In case of this perk it's a huge pain in the ass to balance. When casting scorch over fireball to benefit from this perk becomes viable? At 1 perk levels? At 2? At 3? Won't it make fire magi go full SoO spamming scorch all the time at 3 perks? Or we have to tune it that low that it will only provide benefit at 30% health of a target and lower (thanks to Mandatory Talent If You Don't Want To Have Less Of Your Character Than It Was In Legion).

Bottom line is that some players had too high expectations from azerite perks and got disappointed with outcome, but it was clear where they are heading with them, you have bunch of passives, some of them are good, some of them are bad, and you have an option to stack one or spread it out (well, i'm really stretching it right now since you don't have a reliable way to get azerite gear in quantities that allow that)


And i would to see an example of 340 azerite piece being better than 370 simply due to traits they have, i'm looking at it for fire mage and can't find any except extreme cases of, say, it being slightly better at 4+ mobs due it being an AoE damage perks compared to a stat buff trait

[SinR]

There's a difference between "I feel System XYZ is broken because (A) Logic (B) Logic (C) Logic" and "I DONT LIKE HOW BAD MY SHADOW PRIEST IS FIX IT"

[Lasting Journey]

In most cases detailed feedback is more useful however in the case of azerite, warfront, and expeditions. Just saying they suck and to remove them is sufficient.

These modes and systems actively make the game worse by existing.

[Deleted]

Just saying I, along with many others, vocalized concerns about these issues months ago, all the way up to launch. And we got told we were just pessimistic trolls, preach fanboys, etc.. Now that it's pretty unanimous and the internet is filled with videos and articles about the many severe problems with BFA, I just have to say...I hate to say I told you so, BUT I TOLD YOU SO. The toxic Blizzard defense force needs to realize that most criticism comes from a genuine place of care for the game. Stop idolizing Blizzard, grow up and participate in the constructive feedback process that helps prevent WoDs and BFAs. I'm worried this game is not going to survive another WoD, Blizzard needs to turn this around fast.

Could you point us to one of this threads?
Judging by your name...i can see you hate BfA

[Benjen666]

This argument has been used a lot lately.
It was answered several times in the AMA and is being used constantly in MMO-C.
Some people are outraged because Blizzard didnt listen to their feedback to change the game on the Beta stage.

But is this really something reasonable to ask?

Beta lasted for less than 4 Months.
Feedback goes as far as saying "island expeditions suck", "Warfronts suck", "Azerite sucks".

So basically people wanted Blizzard to change almost the entire game in less than 4 Months.
Reasonable?

Also, people are asking to take part in "game development"
They want their feedback to effectively change the game as if they were game developers themselves.
Reasonable?

--------------

-When should player feedback take part in the game development?
-How much reasonable time should we give Blizzard to take actions?
-Who is to say if feedback "X" is reasonable and will appeal to the whole community (if the game actually gets changed)?

I think this are all VERY difficult questions...do you have the answer to them? I dont...and have no idea how we should approach the situation.

the blizzard dev team love you man. happy?

[Deleted]

Hey! Psssshhht..... betas are not for testing but to create hype!

Also... "this sucks" feedback is more than enough.

People said, azerite, islands and warfronts sucked. Imagine if they removed it. Imagine how better BfA would be without these systems.

Ahah, there is probably some true to this.
But i think the main goal of Beta is to make sure the entire game doesnt crash on release and to get rid of major bugs.

[MrCool]

Feedback was given
Feedback was not acted upon
Beta was too short
Blame execs

[Armourboy]

There's a difference between "I feel System XYZ is broken because (A) Logic (B) Logic (C) Logic" and "I DONT LIKE HOW BAD MY SHADOW PRIEST IS FIX IT"

Oddly enough neither seemed to work.

[unbound]

This argument has been used a lot lately.
It was answered several times in the AMA and is being used constantly in MMO-C.
Some people are outraged because Blizzard didnt listen to their feedback to change the game on the Beta stage.

But is this really something reasonable to ask?

Beta lasted for less than 4 Months.
Feedback goes as far as saying "island expeditions suck", "Warfronts suck", "Azerite sucks".

So basically people wanted Blizzard to change almost the entire game in less than 4 Months.
Reasonable?

Also, people are asking to take part in "game development"
They want their feedback to effectively change the game as if they were game developers themselves.
Reasonable?

--------------

-When should player feedback take part in the game development?
-How much reasonable time should we give Blizzard to take actions?
-Who is to say if feedback "X" is reasonable and will appeal to the whole community (if the game actually gets changed)?

I think this are all VERY difficult questions...do you have the answer to them? I dont...and have no idea how we should approach the situation.

Actually, yes. This is a reasonable argument.

Here is reality. Blizz is cutting costs by not having sufficient testers (not unique to Blizz). They are relying on beta testing to cover that expense. However, they are ignoring feedback from that group of testers. The fact that it is harder to manage because they are not paid, quality testers was caused by them in the first place and is something that they simply need to learn to manage if they continue to insist on this cheaper route.

As for community feedback, this isn't about one person that mentioned something or another. The vast majority of the community raised their objections. Rather than take that feedback constructively, Blizz decided to dig their heels in on their decisions which led to the current state.

As for time, I'm getting tired of the argument and implied arguments. It isn't like this expansion came out 12 months after the previous expansion. And, in regards to Elemental Shaman, it isn't like there was something hidden that jumped out. From the moment you start playing with the spec, it was banged up. To quote a professor I once had, "This is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer".

As for feedback itself, it isn't a matter of accepting every single argument as valid. But what was clear in this case (and more often than Blizz fans want to acknowledge) is that the feedback in this case was indeed valid. If you have a couple of people saying, "this is garbage", then you don't need to dig too deep; but when all of the well known players (and more) point out "this is garbage", you need to seriously dig into what they are saying.

Blizz's arrogance even shows with some of their statements acting like they just needed to more clearly communicate how the spec is secretly awesome. It doesn't even register with them that there is no chance that a game played by this many players will someone not figure out how to exploit secret awesomeness. Indeed, Blizz has to spend a lot of time stopping people from exploiting secretly awesome bugs.

And, to debunk another argument that both Blizz has brought up and others try to point out, "But we have 36 different specs to balance!". They aren't running this show with one person. In my own job I have the equivalent of 150 classes with about a dozen specs associated with each and configurations all over the place that have to be balanced against each other. I laugh at the notion that 36 specs adding up to a hundred plus things that need to be balanced is overwhelming, or even hard for a good team to manage. That is why I have the teams I have and meetings to discuss how our products, software, and configurations work together. Blizz can do this too...they choose not to for whatever reasons they have.

[slime]

Isle expeditions and warfronts too similar. Features shouldve been merged some way.

The whole horde gets this thing for 3 weeks first, and now I hear they got double resets on the Arathi rares - while alliance sat in the zone for 2 weeks with nothing to do there after the first hour. Why Blizz didn't just reset it for alliance on Tuesday after a full week boggles the mind. And whatever excuse there was - it goes out the window because they did just that for the horde.

Having our player base do our beta equals = everyone just treats it like a free preview of a game - these people are not testers or developers.

This has been a shit xpac in just the first month. But FUCK it has been doubly shit if you are an alliance player.

[Deleted]

I gave detailed feedback on lots of things in the beta.

What annoys me is I put bug reports in about quests, no big game changing things, just single quests and they wernt fixed.

[Hell-Nicø]

The whole original definition of Beta is "Test & Feedback", not a demo.

If they don't process any feedback at all, just call it Demo.

It blows my mind how much BETA has be robed of its original definition nawadays...

[FoxyAnatoliy]

What's the point of this threads?

[Ringthane]

As someone who was in alpha and beta, I can tell you that my feedback, at least, was very detailed. No, they didn't fix most of it, but that's Blizzard these days, apparently. And that's why this is the first time since Vanilla that I didn't even bother buying a copy.

[OrcsRLame]

I didn't play BFA beta, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that I reported bugs in the Legion beta, (Including a step by step guide of how to reproduce said bugs.) and months later those bugs were still around on live.

So I don't think Blizzard listens to any beta feedback, regardless of the subject or how much detail there is. I'm convinced all player reports in beta just go straight into the trash can.

[THEORACLE64]

This argument has been used a lot lately.
It was answered several times in the AMA and is being used constantly in MMO-C.
Some people are outraged because Blizzard didnt listen to their feedback to change the game on the Beta stage.

But is this really something reasonable to ask?

Beta lasted for less than 4 Months.
Feedback goes as far as saying "island expeditions suck", "Warfronts suck", "Azerite sucks".

So basically people wanted Blizzard to change almost the entire game in less than 4 Months.
Reasonable?

Also, people are asking to take part in "game development"
They want their feedback to effectively change the game as if they were game developers themselves.
Reasonable?

--------------

-When should player feedback take part in the game development?
-How much reasonable time should we give Blizzard to take actions?
-Who is to say if feedback "X" is reasonable and will appeal to the whole community (if the game actually gets changed)?

I think this are all VERY difficult questions...do you have the answer to them? I dont...and have no idea how we should approach the situation.

Well, don't you sound like a child saying "i told you so".

[Deleted]

Post 130 from me here, and you can see plenty of other people in this thread too:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...0#post49815530

Hell go back to just about any thread about the state of beta in July, and you'll see what I mean. Tons of issues pointed out, dismissed with, "IT'S NOT THE FINAL BUILD LEAVE BLIZZARD ALONE!!!" and "YOU'RE JUST (insert any major WoW celebrity/personality here, they all hated beta) FANBOY, LEAVE BLIZZARD ALONE!!!"

- - - Updated - - -

Just about everyone who cares about the game enough to play beta and actually participate in testing agreed that BFA had MAJOR issues, but we got shit on by the toxic Blizzard defense force fanboy squad, most of which aren't even playing the actual game in any sort of serious or competitive nature, they're just fucking around with pet battles and mount collecting and shit. And sure, that's a part of the game, but that's not why most play and just because pet battles will never get fucked up doesn't mean that everything Blizzard does is perfect.

I guess that's what gets me the most about this shit, is the toxic Blizzard defense force defending shit like no item-swapping in mythic+ and no master looter for mythic raid...those are components of the game most of the Blizzard defense force does not even play. Most of the people defending Blizzard there never step into competitive M+ or raiding. They just want to shit on us for pointing out issues for our part of the game. It's super sad, super toxic, and now the game is fucked partially because of it. Because fucking casual assholes have to just shit on everyone else's fun, only casual players are allowed to have fun. And it's ironic because in the end it turned right back around and many of these systems we criticized fuck the casual playerbase even more. It's quite sad. People need to stop idolizing Blizzard, it's not fucking healthy. WoW has never been perfect but it's about as bad as it's ever been and part of that is because constructive feedback got drowned out by a horde of casubads that don't even know what they want but they're certainly happy to tell experts at the game that "everything is fine, you're just a troll."

Im pretty sure Blizzard cant see your post in the middle of a Asmongold thread in MMO-C
I thought you gave constructive feedback in official forums or something similar ^_^