I told you so on Beta - Player Feedback

[Mister Cheese]

Beta lasted for less than 4 Months.

There's your problem right there. Stop putting it on players who left legitimate criticism that went ignored for those 4 months. There were problems that were noticed on day one. Stop acting like you know shit about game development when you clearly don't. The average beta phase for a WoW expansion is USUALLY six months. That extra time makes a hell of a lot of difference.

Every fucking thread you open you ignore every point made at you and talk past everyone. You should stop. You keep using the word reasonable in your OP yet you seem to have no idea what it means.

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This is just depressing. It shows that they planned on another tier of traits for each item, and they axed it.

Raid pieces have 3 tiers already.

[The Stormbringer]

There's your problem right there. Stop putting it on players who left legitimate criticism that went ignored for those 4 months. There were problems that were noticed on day one. Stop acting like you know shit about game development when you clearly don't. The average beta phase for a WoW expansion is USUALLY six months. That extra time makes a hell of a lot of difference.

Every fucking thread you open you ignore every point made at you and talk past everyone. You should stop. You keep using the word reasonable in your OP yet you seem to have no idea what it means.

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Raid pieces have 3 tiers already.

Three tiers plus the little "increase your item level +5 points" thing, or three tiers INCLUDING the +5 thing?

[Deleted]

There's your problem right there. Stop putting it on players who left legitimate criticism that went ignored for those 4 months. There were problems that were noticed on day one. Stop acting like you know shit about game development when you clearly don't. The average beta phase for a WoW expansion is USUALLY six months. That extra time makes a hell of a lot of difference.

Every fucking thread you open you ignore every point made at you and talk past everyone. You should stop. You keep using the word reasonable in your OP yet you seem to have no idea what it means.

LoL, now I AM the one who thinks knows something about game development?
I thought youtubers like Bellular Gaming and people who demand changes were the ones pretending to be game developers.

I do know one thing. A game this big usually doesnt take only 2 years to make.

[Mister Cheese]

Three tiers plus the little "increase your item level +5 points" thing, or three tiers INCLUDING the +5 thing?

The former.

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LoL, now I AM the one who thinks knows something about game development?
I thought youtubers like Bellular Gaming and people who demand changes were the ones pretending to be game developers.

I do know one thing. A game this big usually doesnt take only 2 years to make though.

You sure act like you know about how long it takes to develop shit.

[The Stormbringer]

The former.

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You sure act like you know about how long it takes to develop shit.

Eh, that's something I guess. Still pretty sad that it's a raid tier only thing.

[Deleted]

You sure act like you know about how long it takes to develop shit.

Point me a good game that took less than 2 years to make then...

I dont even know how Blizz can do it. Probably a big ass team is working on it or something

God of War for example took 5 years to make.

[nyc81991]

People were very vocal about GCD changes fx... Blizz didnt change anything

This. At the very least they could have listened to people when it came to the GCD and the massive pruning of classes instead of saying (and I quote) "Why would we make a change that feels bad?" in response...

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This is just depressing. It shows that they planned on another tier of traits for each item, and they axed it.

I don’t get it there are still items with 3 rings then the Ilvl boost.

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This. At the very least they could have listened to people when it came to the GCD and the massive pruning of classes instead of saying (and I quote) "Why would we make a change that feels bad?" in response...

They did listen about the gcd changes and took some stuff off they just didn’t fully revert the change like some people wanted.

[Accendor]

There's a difference between "I feel System XYZ is broken because (A) Logic (B) Logic (C) Logic" and "I DONT LIKE HOW BAD MY SHADOW PRIEST IS FIX IT"

While you are obviously right about that, if (numbers made up) 300 people write "I DONT LIKE HOW BAD MY SHADOW PLAYS PLS FIX" it is probably a good idea to look at one of the 20 good and well written posts about why exactly people say they don't like shadow.

So while yeah, constructive feedback is always more valuable than pure complaining, it is insane ignore something that a lot of people complain about just because the majority of them gives not detailed enough feedback. Every feedback is valuable, even if it is only "I don't like it".

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I agree the feedback on Isles and Warfronts and even Warmode are rather vague.

To be fair, one of the main criticisms for Warfronts was that they are boring and not engaging because you can not lose them and basically afk them. The challenge is literally way unter LFR level because a single person(!) can win them for the team. That was one feedback that was given right after the warfronts where first launched. And what would you know, exactly that is one of the biggest problems people now have with them, except the crazy gating that is going on (which was not testable on Beta...).

A main criticism for Islands was that they were a grindfest, always the same and the highly praised AI actually not very clever. And again, as it goes live, this are the main critic points still, overshadowed from the fact that they also feel unrewarding.

[Evilneb]

All of these armchair devs are hilarious. In a real development environment, especially on an enterprise app level (which WoW essentially is), you only have time to pursue like 30% of the issues and features you want to, and half of those probably end up being shit or bleeding into other iterations.

The only reason we even get to attempt to contribute to the conversation is because blizzard allows us, which they don't have to do.

"they didn't fix the bug that I reported, therefore blizzard doesn't listen to ANYONE" is preposterous, and "we told them that the gcd was bad but they did it anyway!" Is completely invalid, because it's Blizzard's game! They don't have to listen to your complaints if it's their intended design, which it is, and which they have valid reasons for.

I'm going to qualify this opinion by saying that I main Ele shaman, which I've been enjoying despite an explicit statement and gameplay evidence that it's not even a finished spec design.

Get over yourselves, get some friends, and play the game already or find a new one. Good lord.

[Aydinx2]

Why do you keep making threads and posting in threads about BFA being good or bad?
Do you so strongly feel the need to justify buying BFA?

Beta did last a much shorter time than previous betas. That is also 100% Blizzards fault and responsibility. The fact that Blizzard messed up and didn't prepare enough time to gather data, process the data and make changes is entirely their fault and in no way prevents players from being allowed to complain about both the duration of the beta and the resulting problems.

The reason players are allowed to complain is because they did pay the same price as previous expansions. Only problem is that this time the product is clearly inferior, with systems that are worse than their counterparts from Legion, and known issues from Beta still not being fixed. Add on top of that the numerous bugs regarding transmog item drops, the m+ cache and just a massive amount of spelling and tooltip errors, and it feels like this wasn't worth the $60.

Now don't get me wrong, the expansion is playable and I am enjoying playing it, but I also enjoyed playing Argus, and that was free. BFA doesn't feel like it's worth more money than Argus.

[Accendor]

The only reason we even get to attempt to contribute to the conversation is because blizzard allows us, which they don't have to do.

As someone who works in software development: That people actually look at beta testing this way is incredible strange to me. We are testing for Blizzard. For free. THEY ASK FOR OUR OPINION. They say they want to know. This has nothing to do w ith "they allow us anything", it is us being generous.

[Ophenia]

Just look at Mythic Fetid Devorer feedback where everyone said that everything had way too many HP, providing logs, and come back telling us that feedback was not ignored

[BlueRemedy]

Why on Earth would anyone want to provide long form feedback for these developers? Keeping it short and sweet is by far for the best.

They ignore basically all of it and at some point I want the game I'm paying for to be designed and developed by professionals. Blizzard honestly seems to want their game development to be crowd sourced nowadays. What little bit they actually do.

[Powerogue]

what the fuck did I just read. You're saying the small amount of players they had for the beta ran into problems. And they didn't care about said problems because the larger population hasn't ran into that problem yet? What the hells the point of calling it a beta. Just call it slave labour QA.

I'm referring to prioritization of bigger vs. smaller issues and that single people can and often are wrong. For example my repeatedly gripes about outlaw rogues being cripplingly underpowered were not in fact as well founded as I thought, but rather based on problems arising from scaling, azerite trait choices (both offensive and ilevel upgrades causing me to lose defensive ones), losing my BiS legiondaries, a poor talent choice, poor stat prioritization, heavier dependence on weapon ilevel vs other classes, and other small things I hadn't thought to consider. Yet the extent of my "feedback" was "outlaw sucks, buff it!" The DPS charts told a different story. If that had been my feedback in beta, they would have been in the right to ignore it.

I'm not excusing their dismissal of detailed feedback based on tediously thorough testing like that one shaman that quit recently, just attempting to explain their answer.

The obvious solution is just that, prioritize feedback from those testers who take their job seriously rather than letting it get drowned out by the constant, useless noise of the constantly contradictory """"""feedback""""""" we see in places like here.

[Aydinx2]

Not really true, Blizzard listens to feedback at least 20% of the time (made up number)
So many changes to the game were made because of player feedback so far.

>Not really true
>Made up number

Seriously dude? You say something is not true and then come up with a number out of literally nowhere?
Why do you think people disagree with you and don't take you seriously?

And 20% of the time is not "many changes because of player feedback"......

[Deleted]

>Not really true
>Made up number

Seriously dude? You say something is not true and then come up with a number out of literally nowhere?
Why do you think people disagree with you and don't take you seriously?

And 20% of the time is not "many changes because of player feedback"......

Are you seriously arguing with me about how many times Blizzard listened to feedback?

If you played this game for more than 1 year you would know full well Blizzard listens to TONS of feedback -__-

How do you think Classic WoW was announced? 100% player feedback

[Luxeley]

While you are obviously right about that, if (numbers made up) 300 people write "I DONT LIKE HOW BAD MY SHADOW PLAYS PLS FIX" it is probably a good idea to look at one of the 20 good and well written posts about why exactly people say they don't like shadow.

So while yeah, constructive feedback is always more valuable than pure complaining, it is insane ignore something that a lot of people complain about just because the majority of them gives not detailed enough feedback. Every feedback is valuable, even if it is only "I don't like it".

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To be fair, one of the main criticisms for Warfronts was that they are boring and not engaging because you can not lose them and basically afk them. The challenge is literally way unter LFR level because a single person(!) can win them for the team. That was one feedback that was given right after the warfronts where first launched. And what would you know, exactly that is one of the biggest problems people now have with them, except the crazy gating that is going on (which was not testable on Beta...).

A main criticism for Islands was that they were a grindfest, always the same and the highly praised AI actually not very clever. And again, as it goes live, this are the main critic points still, overshadowed from the fact that they also feel unrewarding.

Good comeback - you're right. The feedback of Azerite definitely went into greater detail as well as there is a higher volume of it, but you're right. This means the problem here rests of the fact they submitted Warfronts and Isles Wayyyyyy toooooo late in the beta. Even if Blizzard wanted to do something about it - what could they possibly do in a month or two at the most? BFA easily could've been stalled another month - Sept is a better month for release than Aug and there would be less problems.

[Captain Douchebag]

Because no one in the world can make a game this big in only 2 years.

I do know one thing. A game this big usually doesnt take only 2 years to make.

Still curious as to where you're getting this timeframe from, seeing as you failed to respond to it when asked in your previous thread.

[Deleted]

Still curious as to where you're getting this timeframe from, seeing as you failed to respond to it when asked in your previous thread.

Are trying to suggest in WoD they were already developing BfA?
I dont understand your question.