[Spoiler] The Alliance does X in Zuldazar and Baine's immidiate reaction is:

[Stelio Kontos]

He should've just taurened up and snapped her like a twig when Saurfang was still around.

But then how else are all the Edgebois gonna have a waifu? You'd be able to hear Arrashi's head pop all the way from Poland.

Infracted.

[Magnagarde]

But then how else are all the Edgebois gonna have a waifu? You'd be able to hear Arrashi's head pop all the way from Poland.

It's getting closer and closer I suppose. One can hope.

[CasualFilth]

Negotiating from a position of weakness doesn't work. Baine is the biggest cuck in the faction because he's already pondering how to surrender to a teenager at the first setback the Horde suffers.

He's not pondering surrender. He's doubting the war and thinks about a possible outcome that the Alliance wins. Siding with Anduin means he could spare the faction.

[Dellis0991]

Baine wasn’t even alive during the war of the ancients and even his own people disagree with him, hence him exiling those who fought for justice after Taurajo.

I got no hang ups about his fucks ups, he was wrong about many things, he ain't wrong about finding peace but in this instance he should keep quiet.

[Landjones]

Baine is pathetic

[Super Dickmann]

Like in real-world politics, I've yet to see anything approaching coherent thought from people who throw the term "cuck" around non-ironically.

Not a single argument detected.

@CasualFilth Dude is suggesting negotiations, i.e a way to a negotiated surrender after a major defeat, when they have the worst bargaining position available and when the opening shot of the war was aggression against an unrelated part of the Alliance and genocide. Anyone opposite Baine in that situation would skullfuck the Horde with some of the harshest terms available and likely dismantle the faction, given how the last time the Horde were given a free pass went.

[LordSothe]

I mean, if Anduin sat down at the table with Baine and said "give us Sylvanas and we'll forgive the rest of you" would anyone in the Horde besides Sylvanas care? What are they even fighting for at this point? Ego?

The Horde rushed headfirst into war that didn't need to be fought for no real reason beyond their Warchief telling them to. Now they're losing, and they just found out their Warchief shouldn't even be Warchief. Negotiating would be completely reasonable, especially given it's fucking Anduin and he's going to go easy on them.

[Stelio Kontos]

Not a single argument detected.

I don't argue with folks who use terms like "cuck" and "soy boy" in any attempt at serious discussion. It's like arguing with a mannequin. You just look like an even bigger idiot for trying to argue with one.

[Super Dickmann]

I don't argue with folks who use terms like "cuck" and "soy boy" in any attempt at serious discussion. It's like arguing with a mannequin. You just look like an even bigger idiot for trying to argue with one.

Your IQ is too high for me, I'm afraid. I should've known better than to argue with someone who legitimately likes Baine.

[Terongor]

Like in real-world politics, I've yet to see anything approaching coherent thought from people who throw the term "cuck" around non-ironically.

Negotiating from position weakness if you don't have anything to give it will never work. Also it would just split the horde more inside than the war already has and would thrive away the zandalari. Also Sylvanas has no reason to trust anduin when he never punished genn for what happened in stormheim nor did he any kind of compesantion from trying assasinate the leader of the horde. When Anduin likes and stays in contact with Calia.

Anduins words have no credibility to horde and atm making a peace would cause horde to loose too much resources, they would have give the same amount and do the same thing if they had lost already so by all points it wouldn't be any benefit for the horde only when neither has the advantage or the horde has the advantage is it logical to negotiate peace in hordes view.

[Magnagarde]

Like in real-world politics, I've yet to see anything approaching coherent thought from people who throw the term "cuck" around non-ironically.

You won't get one. Thing is that there's been a gradual and massive shift in the Horde playerbase, so that most of it is now about female paladin blood elf chics, Legolas archers and players who bask in the edge of undead high elves and their undead human toys.

Hating on characters like Saurfang and Baine is all the rage because they want nothing more than a shift from an orc, troll and tauren centric Horde towards an all-out undead elf and human faction. Can't have anyone act with sense and logic in the genocidal camp.

[CasualFilth]

Not a single argument detected.

@CasualFilth Dude is suggesting negotiations, i.e a way to a negotiated surrender after a major defeat, when they have the worst bargaining position available and when the opening shot of the war was aggression against an unrelated part of the Alliance and genocide. Anyone opposite Baine in that situation would skullfuck the Horde with some of the harshest terms available and likely dismantle the faction, given how the last time the Horde were given a free pass went.

Baine has shown he's not #TeamSylvanas. He's out there to spare the original Horde (Tauren, Trolls, possibly Orcs) and not Sylvanas' followers, which he can easily put the blame on.

[skitzin]

Your IQ is too high for me, I'm afraid. I should've known better than to argue with someone who legitimately likes Baine.

He used terms such as "edgebois" and then tries to take the moral high ground. Just ignore the troll since he clearly has nothing intelligent to say in this discussion regardless of what side of the argument he supports.

[Super Dickmann]

Baine has shown he's not #TeamSylvanas. He's out there to spare the original Horde (Tauren, Trolls, possibly Orcs) and not Sylvanas' followers, which he can easily put the blame on.

Orcs and trolls are among Sylvanas' followers. Forsaken didn't sack Brennadam, and it wasn't undead shamans who lit the flames on Teldrassil. completely ignoring Saurfang's calls to stop. The Horde cheerily participated in the War of Thorns and then cheerily went along with Sylvanas up to that point, up to and including during the raid itself. While most likely Sylvanas will be made a scapegoat and the fact that the vast majority of the Horde stuck with her will be completely glossed over by the narrative, it's still the case and he still wouldn't be able to go "Oh, it wasn't me this time" when that was the exact same thing the Horde said last time with Garrosh.

[Bigby]

The problem with Baine is that he and the Tauren are a symptom of the faction system. If they weren't so bound to it mechanically, he would have told Sylvanas and likely the Horde to go piss off and wall off Mulgore, going properly neutral.

Instead, they're bound to it, which makes Baine look like a perpetual 'traitor' to Horde players who's constantly preening against it, whilst to Alliance players he looks like a massive coward who meekly tells the Horde to stop being evil, but doesn't actually take a stand against it beyond a few words.

[Tyrathius]

Baine doesn't have meta knowledge of a possible Horde comeback in 8.2 like we do. Realistically, most wars don't swing from one side to the other over and over again. Once one side gets an advantage it's likely to snowball.

Right now, the Horde is losing. As far as Baine knows, attempting to fight could just weaken their position further and cost more lives. Then the Alliance still gets what they want, only tons more Horde soldiers are dead and the Alliance is even less likely to cut them a deal when they finally do try.

It's like in Siege of Orgrimmar. If Varian wanted, he could have wiped out the Horde after Garrosh. He chose not to, because while he likely would have succeeded, it would have been costly and a peaceful resolution benefited both sides more. But if Vol'jin had tried to attack him there, and forced him to fight another war, then you can bet when Varian inevitably won he would have been far less merciful to the Horde than he was in canon.

[Terongor]

You won't get one. Thing is that there's been a gradual and massive shift in the Horde playerbase, so that most of it is now about female paladin blood elf chics, Legolas archers and players who bask in the edge of undead high elves and their undead human toys.

Hating on characters like Saurfang and Baine is all the rage because they want nothing more than a shift from an orc, troll and tauren centric Horde towards an all-out undead elf and human faction. Can't have anyone act with sense and logic in the genocidal camp.

I want my baddass orchiss horde from wc2 back not this shitty disgrace.

[Sekach]

If Baine had anything remotely resembling a spine he should have withdrew the tauren from the Horde or at the very least refused to participate in Horde campaigns like the Frostwolves if he felt strongly against this war. Instead, he committed half-heartedly and took every possible opportunity to whine and second guess his superior while engaged in a conflict that may very well have absolutely fatal consequences to the Horde if lost. Pacifist or even conscientious objector you may be, but once you take up the sword you are in it to win it. From that point onward anything less than complete dedication to victory is downright subversive.

[Super Dickmann]

Instead, they're bound to it, which makes Baine look like a perpetual 'traitor' to Horde players who's constantly preening against it, whilst to Alliance players he looks like a massive coward who meekly tells the Horde to stop being evil, but doesn't actually take a stand against it beyond a few words.

This is the problem summarized and why Baine is such an execrable fucking character. He's a whiner who never does anything and who fails, both in standing with his faction and in meaningfully reining it in. I can give shit to Saurfang or Vol'jin or whatever because they're not what I'd like the Horde to be, but they at least put their money where their mouth was and took a stand eventually. Not so Baine.

Dude goes from "Oh, the Warchief will know best" in one quest ending to "Oh, Sylvanas wouldn't understand, but honor demand we help them" in the next. Guy cared more about Saurfang being left to die and an alliance commander being raised than about his own people being blighted and then raised as skeletons, which would damn their souls, something even more heinous given tauren ancestor worship.

[Stelio Kontos]

The problem with Baine is that he and the Tauren are a symptom of the faction system. If they weren't so bound to it mechanically, he would have told Sylvanas and likely the Horde to go piss off and wall off Mulgore, going properly neutral.

Instead, they're bound to it, which makes Baine look like a perpetual 'traitor' to Horde players who's constantly preening against it, whilst to Alliance players he looks like a massive coward who meekly tells the Horde to stop being evil, but doesn't actually take a stand against it beyond a few words.

My thoughts exactly, the story is crippled by outdated game mechanics.