why bring a rogue to a raid?

[shaunika123]

Uldir is range favoured how?
Have you seen the top dps? All melee except Affli

have you seen actual raid comps on the top kills?

all affli except a few melee

if melees didnt do more dps than casters noone would take any of them to raids.

even with them topping the meters t hey barely take a few to any given kill on the final bosses

[Cyanu]

I feel like we miss some unique utility.
we bring nothing to the table, that other classes cant do just as well, or better.
before our dps nerfs, we could rely on our top dps.
but now i cant see any reason why we should be in a raid, except for being a decent player.
im not complaining about our dps nerfs, our dmg is fine. but some sorta unique utility instead, would be nice, imo.

rogues are killers, they're not paladins nor shamans to buff and protect the group

after you get whatever buffs/utility you need you stack rogues, that's how it goes

besides big damage needs no introductions nor explanations, especially when paired with crazy survivability

[shaunika123]

rogues are killers, they're not paladins nor shamans to buff and protect the group

after you get whatever buffs/utility you need you stack rogues, that's how it goes

besides big damage needs no introductions nor explanations, especially when paired with crazy survivability

nobody is stacking rogues though

at most they take 2 to kills and a lot of guilds took zero (like method) to mythrax and ghuun

[dlld]

I feel like its generally the otherway around, why bring anything other then a rogue? The answer to that is generally one 'little' buff like battleshout, which could also be brought by a prot warrior in that specific case.

[Firatha]

any class/spec will look op if the best strat is to allow them, and only them, to aoe the entire fight.

I have no idea what I am talking about the post.

[aGit]

I feel like we miss some unique utility.

Not sure if serious...

[shaunika123]

I feel like its generally the otherway around, why bring anything other then a rogue? The answer to that is generally one 'little' buff like battleshout, which could also be brought by a prot warrior in that specific case.

lol prot warriors, they dotn even exist anymore

you bring a DH for the mandatory 5% buff, darkness and massive dps
you bring a warrior for the bonkers execute damage and the AP shout
you bring a WW for insane burst damage and mobility (and the 5% phys buff but tank monks put that up anyway altough it's good on stuff like fetid where tanks cant hit adds)
you bring a frost DK for grip and their massive dps
you bring rogue for good dps and survivability

and you bring enha so you have a blue bar on your raidframe.

[Kaver]

While i agree with the message, but the comparison is awful.
Because in your comparison, you elected the OP as "Rogue President" that basically represents the rogue community on all matters.

I have to admit, I didn't plan out the comparison in details..

But I'm happy you got the message despite of the comparison. I just hate when one guy is a bit ignorant about something and then suddenly people think that all Rogues in the whole world are complaining about the class. No.. it's ONE GUY ONE GUY ONE GUY!!!! Sorry for caps

[aGit]

I find this hillarious considering if you look at the top 10 specs for mythic uldir melee makes up 8 of them, including the top 7 being melee. (Affliction 8th, Marksmanship 10th)

But yea...ranged favoured... Kappa

That's not how this works, that not how any of this works. you could have 1 frost dk in the group, rest being ranged, if that one dk tops the charts, would you say it's a melee favored encounter? the fact is, for most of the bosses, you can only bring few melees, where as the only down side in bringing ranged is that melees just plain do more damage. With so many spread mechanics around, it's not in any way practical to bring more of the classes that do the most dps.

[shaunika123]

I have no idea what I am talking about the post.

he's right though

the strategy for that fight is to allow sub rogues to cheese the shit out of it. nobody else does any AOE just the sub rogues and they push it all into the boss.
it's not a realistic scenario in any other fight ever. it's a massive massive outlier.

[Meiffert]

any class/spec will look op if the best strat is to allow them, and only them, to aoe the entire fight.

That's certainly true, which is why I posted boss damage only.

[Micronetic]

any class/spec will look op if the best strat is to allow them, and only them, to aoe the entire fight.

I remember this when Devai (Paragon) was streaming back then, they had only 1 guy AOEing the trash at Galakras, they changed the 1 guy every week lol so everybody could rock the meters.

[Meiffert]

I remember this when Devai (Paragon) was streaming back then, they had only 1 guy AOEing the trash at Galakras, they changed the 1 guy every week lol so everybody could rock the meters.

Sure, that's how you pad damage for logs.
Obviously that's not what you do for progression.
FWIW this is the damage on little adds:
As you can see, rogues weren't "the only class allowed to AoE adds", that would mean nothing. They just destroyed the boss and priority adds (I only posted boss damage in the original post, not overall damage).

[Tradu]

Uldir is range favoured how?
Have you seen the top dps? All melee except Affli

The actual fights favor ranged, yes, just like basically every fight in WoW history. Taloc favors ranged because they don't need to worry about the add dropping blood pools in the elevator phase, so they're less of a strain on the healers. Zek'voz is ranged favored because they can be spread at all times for the eye beam and can just turn around and hit any add they want to. Fetid is ranged favored because again, they can pretty much just turn around to hit their add. Mythrax and G'huun are both heavily ranged favored because ranged can spread out over a much larger area to avoid splash damage.
There's a reason comps for all fights apart from Zul are basically: all the buff classes(mage, warrior, priest, DH, monk), only 2 of which take up melee slots(DH and warrior), maybe a rogue or 2, then fill with hunters/locks. The cap on how many melee you can fit into melee range is just very low on a lot of fights. You have 2 tanks and 2-3 mandatory melee for buffs, which leaves maybe 2-3 more spots for melees(if you're lucky), and rogue is the top class to fill those spots with unless you need a DK for grip.

[Deleted]

You muppets. Why are you still feeding it?

Jeeeez, he must be having a feast!

[Cyanu]

nobody is stacking rogues though

at most they take 2 to kills and a lot of guilds took zero (like method) to mythrax and ghuun

what happens in a single boss is irrelevant in the long run, historically rogues have been top or near the top in dmg meters and are among the most stacked mellee classes in this game from vanila till today

[shaunika123]

what happens in a single boss is irrelevant in the long run, historically rogues have been top or near the top in dmg meters and are among the most stacked mellee classes in this game from vanila till today

it doesnt matter what happened in the past we're talking about now
rogue utility has been heavily cut in BFA
and other melee utility got buffed A LOT

unless our damage gets buffed to be rank1 again like it was at the start of BFA before all the nerfs

we wont be stacked on any raids this expac(unless we get a zul 2.0)

that's not to say we'll be shit we're pretty much fine, but this is the weakest rogues have been in a very long time.

it's also not one boss

it's the two final bosses of the current raid
and those two bosses are more important than the 6 before

[Lazel]

it doesnt matter what happened in the past we're talking about now
rogue utility has been heavily cut in BFA
and other melee utility got buffed A LOT

unless our damage gets buffed to be rank1 again like it was at the start of BFA before all the nerfs

we wont be stacked on any raids this expac(unless we get a zul 2.0)

that's not to say we'll be shit we're pretty much fine, but this is the weakest rogues have been in a very long time.

it's also not one boss

it's the two final bosses of the current raid
and those two bosses are more important than the 6 before

Yeah man welcome to the club of balanced classes, enjoy your stay.

Unlucky that you're not broken OP like you were the previous 20 tiers, very unfortunate indeed. What will rogues do now without 3 min cd cheat death, 1.5 min cd Cloak and on demand 50% DR from AoE. Not to mention cheesing mechanics with vanish on top of that.

On the other hand, you are still broken as fuck in pvp, you can play that if you want. Otherwise reroll and don't complain

[Indless]

We are good for a lot of things, one would be we cant die, and the fact we do a shit ton of dmg

[JSA2422]

Yeah man welcome to the club of balanced classes, enjoy your stay.

Unlucky that you're not broken OP like you were the previous 20 tiers, very unfortunate indeed. What will rogues do now without 3 min cd cheat death, 1.5 min cd Cloak and on demand 50% DR from AoE. Not to mention cheesing mechanics with vanish on top of that.

On the other hand, you are still broken as fuck in pvp, you can play that if you want. Otherwise reroll and don't complain

people still think rogues are broken in pvp? FeelsBAD