Saurfang is an SI:7/Alliance asset

[Deleted]

I dont think people posting in this thread know what honor means. Its about respect. Slyvannas shows no respect when she butchers thousands of night elfs. She shows no respect when she kills her own people. Saurfang has no respect for her as a leader.

Honor has nothing to do with helping another faction if you believe it is to the benefit of your own. Saurfang does not believe Slyvannas is fit to lead the horde in the right direction. She is an honorless coward. Saurfang isnt. He lost in battle and might have been offered a path to peace that doesnt require so much death and destruction.

I feel that riveting horde pride knowing the one who sat out the war while horde soldiers die is now an asset to the enemy faction! (even if he does not realise it!)

Until sylvanas goes full garrosh and starts placing races below the pecking order then we can kick her teeth in. Plus Saurfang was the brains behind the war of thorns, he planned everything! Even the assassins! Such honour!

In the stories Sylvanas even says to herself she only burnt the damn tree because for some reason Saurfang couldn't kill Malfurion because of muh honour.

[Raven]

That looks like the horde hero duped the allies into removing obstacles from Saurfang's path or SI:7 made it easier for saurfang to escape without letting him know. Realizing that he would weaken the horde unity from the inside. Nothing here suggests he is a plant

Yeah the hole enemy of my enemy is my friend, just becouse they make it easier for him to escape dont mean he works for Alliance, more like Alliance feel it benefit them more with him free than behind bars.

[Super Dickmann]

Yeah the hole enemy of my enemy is my friend, just becouse they make it easier for him to escape dont mean he works for Alliance, more like Alliance feel it benefit them more with him free than behind bars.

So he's an unwitting plant instead of a witting one? And we have no idea which of the two it is but side with him anyway. Blizzard should at least give us a dialogue option asking Saurfang what's up. Given that in the whole questline you can take pro-Sylvanas dialogue options up to the point where it makes a lick of difference, they should at least give us a reason in the railroading part of it.

[Trbn]

can we please kill saurfang in somewhat 8.3
he's old, stupid and his character ruined anyway
still I can't understand why they made pandaria 2.0
especially I don't understand why they force me to follow that shit orc

[Deleted]

So he's an unwitting plant instead of a witting one? And we have no idea which of the two it is but side with him anyway. Blizzard should at least give us a dialogue option asking Saurfang what's up. Given that in the whole questline you can take pro-Sylvanas dialogue options up to the point where it makes a lick of difference, they should at least give us a reason in the railroading part of it.

See this changes nothing for me because overall it taints Saurfang's whole cause. Support a character that the alliance desires to the rule the horde in an expansion about faction pride. As you said they should give you more options on how to handle the encounter with Saurfang, if you believe he is a traitor have him legit punch you and knock you out while he still kills the forsaken forces.

Also I messaged Aucald to change my thread title.

[Necroxis]

So he's an unwitting plant instead of a witting one? And we have no idea which of the two it is but side with him anyway. Blizzard should at least give us a dialogue option asking Saurfang what's up. Given that in the whole questline you can take pro-Sylvanas dialogue options up to the point where it makes a lick of difference, they should at least give us a reason in the railroading part of it.

You keep completely misusing the word plant.

Also we do know which one it is. Saurfang isn't even aware that SI:7 allowed him to get away. He had no contact with them. He said nothing to do them in this quest chain. The literal only thing Saurfang actively does is have Zekhan watch the entrance to the Swamp of Sorrows.

Why? To warn him if HORDE assassins are coming to kill him.

We all know you just wanted an excuse to be angry about Saurfang again, at least hate something that isn't a flatout lie. At least be mad about something that is true, which this appears to be Dagger in the Dark 2.0 (If you actually find that a problem), instead of being disingenuously triggered over something that isn't even true.

[THEORACLE64]

Good. Even the best of the Horde are seeing sense now - oh, it's so glorious.

[Super Dickmann]

Also we do know which one it is. Saurfang isn't even aware that SI:7 allowed him to get away. He had no contact with them. He said nothing to do them in this quest chain. The literal only thing Saurfang actively does is have Zekhan watch the entrance to the Swamp of Sorrows.

Why? To warn him if HORDE assassins are coming to kill him.

That doesn't make a lick of difference. Firstly because the dark rangers tell him to drop his weapons and take him in whereas if they just wanted to kill him they'd have torched his house from the outside like they threatened to and called it a day and secondly because the PC is the one who's seen all the evidence suggesting they let him out intentionally. The PC has reason to doubt Saurfang and to ask him for answers, yet no such option is given. The game defaults to you turning his side now that you have evidence he may or may not be a plant.

If he knows, then he's an Alliance puppet. If he doesn't know, then he's just a useful idiot. In either case, his actions help only the Alliance and thus our actions only help the Alliance.

[Necroxis]

That doesn't make a lick of difference..

Yes, it actually does make a difference. Because you're flatout lying.

I swear, the Sylvanas fanboys have only two rigid definitions of a topic where no nuance exists whatsoever.

He's not a puppet. Either way. He would actually have to be pursuing an Alliance agenda or working with them. Which isn't happening. At all.

None of the "evidence" you keep screaming about implies nothing what you're claiming whatsoever.

[Deleted]

That doesn't make a lick of difference. Firstly because the dark rangers tell him to drop his weapons and take him in whereas if they just wanted to kill him they'd have torched his house from the outside like they threatened to and called it a day and secondly because the PC is the one who's seen all the evidence suggesting they let him out intentionally. The PC has reason to doubt Saurfang and to ask him for answers, yet no such option is given. The game defaults to you turning his side now that you have evidence he may or may not be a plant.

If he knows, then he's an Alliance puppet. If he doesn't know, then he's just a useful idiot. In either case, his actions help only the Alliance and thus our actions only help the Alliance.

YES, you put what I thought and feel far more eloquently.

[Super Dickmann]

Yes, it actually does make a difference. Because you're flatout lying.

It's in the OP of the thread. From the guards drunk on their posts, to the sewer exit to the mention of Shaw paying people off to look the other way. It's obvious that there's SI:7 involvement, the only thing you can debate at all is whether Saurfang knows about it or not and we have no indication as to either since we can't ask him before we commit treason on his behalf.

[Necroxis]

It's in the OP of the thread. From the guards drunk on their posts, to the sewer exit to the mention of Shaw paying people off to look the other way. It's obvious that there's SI:7 involvement, the only thing you can debate at all is whether Saurfang knows about it or not and we have no indication as to either since we can't ask him before we commit treason on his behalf.

Jesus. I'm out. Enjoy the lying and disingenuous freakout.

Nuance doesn't exist here. Why would it when you can just lie and make up definitions of things?

This thread and the official forum one (Which I assume you or the OP also made since its literally identical) are hilarious popcorn entertainment.

[Super Dickmann]

Jesus. I'm out. Enjoy the lying and disingenuous freakout.

Nuance doesn't exist here. Why would it when you can just lie and make up definitions of things?

This thread and the official forum one (Which I assume you or the OP also made since its literally identical) are hilarious popcorn entertainment.

Next time you come whining, bring arguments.

[Deleted]

It's in the OP of the thread. From the guards drunk on their posts, to the sewer exit to the mention of Shaw paying people off to look the other way. It's obvious that there's SI:7 involvement, the only thing you can debate at all is whether Saurfang knows about it or not and we have no indication as to either since we can't ask him before we commit treason on his behalf.

Indeed, there are hints across the quest line that Saurfang's escape was orchestrated or made easier through SI:7 intervention. The only part that can be debated is whether Saurfang knows this or not.

But I believe Saurfang is not dumb, he must know his escape must of been made easier somehow.

[Deleted]

Well, i just have to pretend my own character wasn't really there, because he would never help Saurfang in this situation. Not if he has seen these notes and got these kinds of informations from the guard before hand. And not after the jailbreak scenario. My character is not a major fan of Sylvanas, but he surely wouldn't cause a Rebellion in the current situation either, which would weaken the Horde even more and put them at the mercy of the Alliance.

It all depends on Saurfangs decisions and actions. I mean, he could still play Anduin, make him think that Saurfang is his bitch. But as soon as he is far away and has established a power base, he goes his own way. Like recruiting Mok'nathal, Dragonmaw, Blackrock, Revantusk and Frost Wolves, create an army in the Eastern Kingdoms. Help Silvermoon out, if it gets attacked. I liked this idea here on this forum. And in the end, reign Sylvanas in if possible.

But if he really is an Alliance puppet, this will be a joke. Killing these Dark Ranger of Sylvanas really is worrisome. The Dark Ranger aren't wrong in this situation. Saurfang is all about honor, but only if its suits his own version of it. He endangers other members of the Horde, example not killing Malfurion. Who already proceeds at the Darkshore Warfront to kill more Horde members. On top of that, Saurfang breaks the Blood Oath to the Warchief. So Sylvanas is in the right, wanting to take him in and questioning/interogate him, especially if she has to fear, that he is now an Alliance agent/puppet. Getting such a character as Warchief would literally make the Horde obsolete. If something like this happens, my character would be ready for a Rebellion, taking the head of this traitor and putting it on a pike. But this will never happen with the current writers.

[Torrasque]

Saurfang should be shot in the head by Nathanos, mostly because he's not even worth one of The Dark Lady's arrows, then impaled on a pike on the gates of Orgimmar (along with Zappyboi and Baine since they'll likely back his treason up). His constant and repeated dishonorable actions and betrayals of the Horde shouldn't be tolerated.

[Severn]

I dont think people posting in this thread know what honor means. Its about respect. Slyvannas shows no respect when she butchers thousands of night elfs. She shows no respect when she kills her own people. Saurfang has no respect for her as a leader.

Honor has nothing to do with helping another faction if you believe it is to the benefit of your own. Saurfang does not believe Slyvannas is fit to lead the horde in the right direction. She is an honorless coward. Saurfang isnt. He lost in battle and might have been offered a path to peace that doesnt require so much death and destruction.

Respect doesn't win wars. Slaughtering one's enemies does.

[Deleted]

Well, i just have to pretend my own character wasn't really there, because he would never help Saurfang in this situation. Not if he has seen these notes and got these kinds of informations from the guard before hand. And not after the jailbreak scenario. My character is not a major fan of Sylvanas, but he surely wouldn't cause a Rebellion in the current situation either, which would weaken the Horde even more and put them at the mercy of the Alliance.

It all depends on Saurfangs decisions and actions. I mean, he could still play Anduin, make him think that Saurfang is his bitch. But as soon as he is far away and has established a power base, he goes his own way. Like recruiting Mok'nathal, Dragonmaw, Blackrock, Revantusk and Frost Wolves, create an army in the Eastern Kingdoms. Help Silvermoon out, if it gets attacked. I liked this idea here on this forum. And in the end, reign Sylvanas in if possible.

But if he really is an Alliance puppet, this will be a joke. Killing these Dark Ranger of Sylvanas really is worrisome. The Dark Ranger aren't wrong in this situation. Saurfang is all about honor, but only if its suits his own version of it. He endangers other members of the Horde, example not killing Malfurion. Who already proceeds at the Darkshore Warfront to kill more Horde members. On top of that, Saurfang breaks the Blood Oath to the Warchief. So Sylvanas is in the right, wanting to take him in and questioning/interogate him, especially if she has to fear, that he is now an Alliance agent/puppet. Getting such a character as Warchief would literally make the Horde obsolete. If something like this happens, my character would be ready for a Rebellion, taking the head of this traitor and putting it on a pike. But this will never happen with the current writers.

This is my perspective as well, in light of the information the PC can find and put together. Jumping straight to aiding Saurfang causes me to scratch my head. As I have told others in my eyes Saurfang's cause has been tainted.

[Deleted]

I dont think people posting in this thread know what honor means. Its about respect. Slyvannas shows no respect when she butchers thousands of night elfs. She shows no respect when she kills her own people. Saurfang has no respect for her as a leader.

Honor has nothing to do with helping another faction if you believe it is to the benefit of your own. Saurfang does not believe Slyvannas is fit to lead the horde in the right direction. She is an honorless coward. Saurfang isnt. He lost in battle and might have been offered a path to peace that doesnt require so much death and destruction.

I think honour extends to not commiting high treason....

[Kraddark]

The Alliance backed the Horde rebels during the siege on Orgrimmar and none of the Horde leaders were called traitors for accepting Alliance help. Saurfang seems to be building up a similar resistance and he is called a traitor for accepting Alliance assistance?

This chain of events isn't new. The Alliance gets to help the Horde beat the Horde! It's tradition!