Why did M+ players become so toxic with BFA?

[Deleted]

hm and here i disagree. i mean they are egotistic greedy people but the main reason for it game is leading them into behaviour like this by not giving any alternative to people.

imagine if for example blizzard would put VP into mythic + and then let people farm it intensively (with weekly cap but cumultative one so week 1 - 1000 cap - week 2 2000 cap week 10 10 k and so on )

this would lead to birth of completly new type of mythic + runners - those who wouldnt aim and +7 or +10 but who would aim at +2 or +4 while earning way to progress their toons

lets go further what if blizzzard let people not only buy VP gear but also upgrade the one that they currently have and maybe put in sockets and tertiary on each single piece while using VP .

this would gave people alternative game styles and other ways to play game .

but this would require having at least a bit of brain by devs which is impossible with the team that have only "mythic raid or die" mentality

why the only content in game to pgoress has to be extremly competitive and hardcore one ? where is the sense in this.

Yup , i do hate the Elitist miserable approach by thous people who say others want carries, but in truth they want it, cant handle misteks or failure , just want smooth things , in a video game so they feel good about anything in there life, being like they are better then all , even the WROLD FIRST RAIDERS, coz lul we have 0 , about 0 social life at all so m+5 1k or gtf , run 5 m+ a day so you get curve scrub, re roll or gtf noob. FUCKK OFF with that shit.Run your own keys? Yup was again qued for 1h and nothing for my kings rest +4 , one guy join and left in 2 min. How d fuck should i run my keys then? Tried wit 2 guild m8s, his kings rest +5 , nobody joined us. That my assumption about thous ass cock suckers . But ya , Bizz design of gear etc is more to blame

[Nnyco]

people on the internet are toxic, thats new!

[Aeula]

It's always been like this. The pressure the timer puts on people brings out the worst in them. It's why I don't do Mythic+.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I mean I've seen plenty of high level m+ atal go right for the dino on the pull. If you drop down right away you get the dino right by the stairs to never have to move him because of the ease of LoS'ing. The reason to rush to him is because of when the dungeon starts and how long it takes him to do his little patrol. There is a perfect clearing path after the dino to go right along to zombie and get all the trash you need. So.....yeah it isn't the "idiots way". There are quite a few different ways to do many of the dungeons and your way isn't always right.

You can do him at the stairs just as well if you go dazar first, the difference being that you can utilize bloodlust better the other way, you also gain nothing in ways of clearing trash if you jump down at the beginning, unless you consider trading 2 equivalwent and extremely easy trash packs with one another, which you usually kill both anyway for the trash count. The initial trash clears (left and right, even though most people thankfully adopted the right path over the bubble trolls..) are the hardest and usually most time consuming packs in the instance. At least I managed to run into issues with using bloodlust on dazar and not having it for shadra later depending on the level of the key and if you aim for +2 or +3.

Edit: I guess if you use an invis pot and skip the 1st large group on the right before the stairs you can gain something with your approach, but that is something I put in the "strategies that only work half of the time" category, since one miss-step and you lose twice as much should anything unforseen happen, I do take the "idiot" part back though.

[Price]

OK thx didn't know that

Voidwalker is the only pet with AoE damage, making him the better choice in many situations.

[aGit]

Raider IO probably has a role in it. I have no issue with Raider IO myself and it's nice to something like that to serve both as a tool and to give some players something to work for, but things like that can really inflate egos.

there was a general assumption made in the OP, and it took 4 posts for someone to blame it on raider.io

on topic, pugging high keys may have something to do with it. It's easier to be a prick to strangers than your guildmates/friends.

[Shefu]

Dear OP I dunno how to break it to you, but M+ players have been toxic since Legion.

[melodramocracy]

pug

Well, there's your problem.

[Tekkommo]

With BFA? It was like that in Legion, and has been part of 5 mans since the game launched.

[Deleted]

The feature has matured, and expectations have risen. Simple as that.
Back in legion, M+ was new. Lots of people didn't know stuff. Raider.io was new. Getting a failed run happened.

You already saw this happening at the end of Legion. People knew better what to do and expected others to know the same. While at the start of Legion, these people were few, they got more and more over the course of the expansion.

With BfA, the feature is old. people know what to expect. Their patience has run out already over the course of Legion. While in raiding, you have gaps when content is done, people pushed M+ until the end of Legion. there was no gap, no break to refresh and relax. and so, without that break, people are even more dense at the start of BfA then they were at the end of Legion, since they also (again) have the added stress of raid progress, and unlike EN, Uldir is no pushover tier for lots of guilds.

So yeah. If M+ prevails into the next expansion (which i fully expect), this will get worse (or eventually stagnate at a very high level).

[Irian]

It's no surprise. M+ is now being established as a set-in thing, and BfA doesn't have the backing that Legion had. A lot of more relaxed midcore players are losing interest or quitting if my friends list is to be believed (pretty anecdotal, but I keep hearing the same thing here too) and as a result you're getting the stuck up jackasses as the only ones left.

We're also starting to see a sort of "culture" form in M+, where the high end M+ pug community is becoming a dedicated endgame of its own with its own barriers for entry and expectations.

Just join a guild if you want to have fun in WoW. Pug culture, partially at Blizzard's own fault, is absolutely wretched. WoW has a community that intentionally tries to gatekeep so that players can't get further without dedicated groups.

[kamuimac]

The feature has matured, and expectations have risen. Simple as that.
Back in legion, M+ was new. Lots of people didn't know stuff. Raider.io was new. Getting a failed run happened.

You already saw this happening at the end of Legion. People knew better what to do and expected others to know the same. While at the start of Legion, these people were few, they got more and more over the course of the expansion.

With BfA, the feature is old. people know what to expect. Their patience has run out already over the course of Legion. While in raiding, you have gaps when content is done, people pushed M+ until the end of Legion. there was no gap, no break to refresh and relax. and so, without that break, people are even more dense at the start of BfA then they were at the end of Legion, since they also (again) have the added stress of raid progress, and unlike EN, Uldir is no pushover tier for lots of guilds.

So yeah. If M+ prevails into the next expansion (which i fully expect), this will get worse (or eventually stagnate at a very high level).

raider.io didnt start to be used widelly untill like antorus . this is when this cancer spread and made it unplayable for regular people .

[Verkaik]

Difficulty is all over the place and leads to people not knowing what to do and very lopsided raider io scores if you don't take time to grind them out.

A lot of players just seem to run straight into mobs and aoe breaking ccs and dying. Pugging has become a real pain to with how gear is just showered on people a ilv of 375 is more or less needed to tell who isn't likely to be a hindrance or a extremely high raider io score.

[Puupi]

You are playing with pugs from the LFD tool.

What kind of people are there for the most part? The cunts who can't socialize, befriend and become a part of a healthy long lasting guild. So no shit people are toxic there. The people who act like normal human beings are doing mythic+'s with their guilds and friends.

[klaps_05]

I wouldnt blame players for this - you put a score in game, let groups run rampant and expect they will all behave well? The mistake was Blizzards - M+ should have used the old Arenas team interface and promote competition rather than pugging.

[Deleted]

Interesting how some people turn from cool nice guy in guild setting to totally mad person in pug setting.

Few days ago, Ive been in WM +8 on alt on different server and been grouped with my mains guildies. I just couldnt believe how they overwhelmed the tank with insults for missing the timer by 17 seconds, because we had to backtrack to kill more trash. Words like cancer, kill yourself, retard - I just couldnt believe those are the same people Im rading with for last 2 years. I played few m+ with them, our guild tank were doing mistakes, but they were totally calm, were even joking about it.
Interesting what anonimity does to people.

I pug a lot, both in Legion and BfA, but amount of wild and totally out of control people is much higher in BfA. Might be cos BfA M+ is harder and less forgiving than Legion ones.

[Deleted]

raider.io didnt start to be used widelly untill like antorus . this is when this cancer spread and made it unplayable for regular people .

Wowprogress had M+ scores quite quickly, and in the beginning, those were used at the high end spectrum, before raider.io took over.

Rio serves it purpose well. Not without problems. but in what world do we live where "regular people" aren't able to find friends or a guild, so that they need not to PuG? Is wow only full with people who can not find other people to play with over longer terms?

[Mekh]

I'm not a great player. I don't even know if I'm all that good any longer. Gotten older and less of a twitch player as time goes along and I will absolutely refuse to play with random strangers. It's only people from the guild, friends, family (3 in our extended family play), friends of friends or people I know from communities.

It's no longer worth the hassle to get involved with all of that. It's been that way since before Warlords. Not really a BfA thing specifically. I'm on to have a good time and some fun. I'm not on to be yelled at by someone I've never met before. That's nuts.

This. In its entirety. I used to raid. Started in Karazhan and lead my own raid up until MoP. Priorities shift, skills fade and looking at the idea of playing organized with strangers today: Nope. My wife with about the same raiding experience ran into a bunch of complete a-holes over the years, she even refuses to do random heroics now, even when completely overgearing them.

We're a terrible playerbase and if anyone is looking for a reason for sinking sub numbers, this is it.

[Aurora]

It's poor design to combine competition rankings and group rewards which feel mandatory for every raider in the same mode. I think they should have stayed as challenge dungeons and left them as a niche activity only for those who care about the prestige in times and ranking. The problems are occurring from a clash of different mindsets, some players are doing it for completion and the cache or gear at the end while others expect a speedrunning mentality and very specific pull strategies and group comps. Remove the gear from mythic+ and it would remove the problem.

[Deleted]

You are playing with pugs from the LFD tool.

What kind of people are there for the most part? The cunts who can't socialize, befriend and become a part of a healthy long lasting guild. So no shit people are toxic there. The people who act like normal human beings are doing mythic+'s with their guilds and friends.

It is not really that simple.
In my guild there are only 2 tanks for years and about 20-22 dps. Tanks should do mutiple M+ just to drag dpsers once thru M+ and we cant always bother them. Also, people dont roll tanks since they cant raid with them, main tanks are always available, so noone wants to roll M+ tank only.
So, many of us are destined to pug.