Personal loot at its finest.

[Deleted]

how blizzard is deliberately fucking with mythic raiders.

Do you want some cheese with that whine?

[calanos]

Blizz may have said it was largely to protect people from tyrant Loot Councils, but I am still 100% convinced this change was made almost entirely to slow down the efficiency of gearing guilds out. Not as applicable to hardcore guilds (despite being annoying for them) as any reasonably hardcore guild is absolutely 100% running an addon that will tell them if anything is tradeable and then force members to trade it as needed. Because you have to gear as efficiently as possible if you are trying to crush out current content.

But for your average Heroic/some Mythic style raiding guild, this prolongs how long content stays relevant. You can't just give BiS trinkets to people, at least not until later in the tier. Some folks will still have crappy weapons after 1.5 months of raiding, etc etc. You average iLvl will *probably* go up faster in this system, but your guild won't just have a perfect allocation of which important items go to which people who can use it the best, lowering the overall level of power the raid has overall in the short term, and forcing you to continue clearing that content longer.

Killing split runs and helping some casual folks feel less screwed by Master Looters instead of leaving their guilds is probably some minor side benefit, but clearly not the main purpose of this feature. And thus its probably Working As Intended from a Blizz standpoint

[MiseryIndex]

I'm still blown away by the fact that people will defend having a choice taken away. Master Loot may have had huge flaws because of the human factor, but it was a choice, especially since guilds exist as a cooperative model (with a hierarchy, obviously). Blizzard decide to take away the OPTION, and people just fall in line, like, yes, not being able to pick is for the best.

Whatever flaws you feel exist in the OPs post and argument, the fact that there is no longer a choice for guilds is absurd.

[Ryneon]

Master loot should be available for mythic raiding. Personal loot can exist everywhere else and I won't blink an eye.

This kind of stuff is bs and OP is right, though they are slightly belligerent.

[Bhorin]

Master loot should be available for mythic raiding. Personal loot can exist everywhere else and I won't blink an eye.

Mythic is going cross server this xpac, so no thanks to that. Blizzard could consider 100% guild ML, but I imagine that is too much of a headache to worry about and are happy with PL as it is now.. so eventually the PL whiners will get over it.

[La]

I'm still blown away by the fact that people will defend having a choice taken away. Master Loot may have had huge flaws because of the human factor, but it was a choice, especially since guilds exist as a cooperative model (with a hierarchy, obviously). Blizzard decide to take away the OPTION, and people just fall in line, like, yes, not being able to pick is for the best.

Whatever flaws you feel exist in the OPs post and argument, the fact that there is no longer a choice for guilds is absurd.

No guild that raided seriously or even half seriously had PL on, ever. So no, despite the fact the choice was there, it was never really a choice. I have gotten plenty of things I needed and so has my guild, so I'm not complaining.

[clevin]

i vehemently hate PL, as the raid leader of a region top 10 guild. the only relief is that i can be an absolute tyrant with tradeable pieces. if someone gets a piece and it's tradeable, you better believe if it gets equipped before going through loot council you would get a boot. loot councils in any decent (read: clearing the raid in a timely fashion of weeks instead of months) guilds were almost 100% well intentioned, and now that ML is gone we are just going to TELL you who you are giving your loot to. If people don't like it, they can leave. personal loot was a mistake and if any of you had committed more than 30 minutes a week to pugging a raid you would understand why.

You're PRECISELY why PL is now being used. And even assuming you're really in a high end guild and not just tryharding, no one cares about people like you. IF you go away, that's fine. Alienating .05% of the player base, esp the ones with toxic attitudes like this, in order to help the other 99.95%*? Not an issue.



*Stats carefully researched off the top of my head. Don't whine about them.

[precious]

Mythic is going cross server this xpac, so no thanks to that. Blizzard could consider 100% guild ML, but I imagine that is too much of a headache to worry about and are happy with PL as it is now.. so eventually the PL whiners will get over it.

Cross realm wont happen cause by the time alliance reaches 100 guilds to kill last boss u will be on the next expansion.

[clevin]

Why would you be asking a 370 mage to leave the raid? For most bosses that's above the gearing curve. Even if you had a 390 mage available (an absurd example as they would have had to have been getting extremely lucky titanforges and Azerite cache drops outside of raiding anyway) you can still run both mages depending on your group. The decider on benching would also be on performance and their ability to counter mechanics, being a higher ilvl doesn't make you impervious to getting benched for playing like shit.

They would ask the 370 to leave because they're not actually good, they're tryhards. Of COURSE you bench people on actual performance, not item level... except if you're tryhard.

[Ryneon]

Mythic is going cross server this xpac, so no thanks to that. Blizzard could consider 100% guild ML, but I imagine that is too much of a headache to worry about and are happy with PL as it is now.. so eventually the PL whiners will get over it.

Whiners may exist, but many people have very valid complaints about the PL change. You shouldn't automatically disregard the opposition as "whiners" just because their point of view differs. Get over it isn't the proper answer. 100% Guild ML is a good compromise I would be happy about.

[Bhorin]

Whiners may exist, but many people have very valid complaints about the PL change. You shouldn't automatically disregard the opposition as "whiners" just because their point of view differs. Get over it isn't the proper answer. 100% Guild ML is a good compromise I would be happy about.

I never said I disregarded anyone's opinion, but at some point you need to face the reality that not every decision can go your way. Blizzard has made no indication that they are even reconsidering this change and in all reality they never will because ML is a pain in the neck for them even if it marginally helps some guilds. The system is working fine for the vast majority of people as it stands.. plenty of guilds have beaten the hardest content available with PL. If your guild needs to funnel gear to somehow get kills then that's a feels bad moment, but for everyone else the game moves on.

[Deleted]

I feel you OP. This system sucks and you can tell that most of the people that are defending it is probably LFR heroes that have no idea what they are talking about. Morons.

[fathom81]

How much is a progress guild affected by PL vs ML? Most upgrades are 0.1-0.5% upgrades, unless its a boosted char, so what's the impact?

[KaPe]

How much is a progress guild affected by PL vs ML? Most upgrades are 0.1-0.5% upgrades, unless its a boosted char, so what's the impact?

It's not that it breaks progression on the average, but there are some edges cases that are very annoying. It's especially true with weapons, where you appearently need a better version of each weapon type before you can trade them, which is just insane. If I already had a good staff, why couldn't I trade a slightly worse mace?

Besides, if you optimize the loot distribution, it's more than 0.5% upgrade, since you obviously give it to people for whom it's far more beneficial. Some going for 375 to 375+socket vs another guy replacing their old 340. Who knows, maybe that's exactly what will let that person finally pull their weight on Devourer or something.

Either way, the whole system works pretty much like predicted. The vast majority didn't notice any change and some people are screwed over. And I doubt that trials - which were supposedly abused by evil loot masters - are somehow faring much better than before. If their guilds really have such toxic atmosphere, they are probably getting screwed over in a different way. (or don't exist at all, but hey)

E: Also, I'm pretty sure Sco mentioned that Method would have killed G'huun in their first reset if ML was still a thing. Their split runs were less effective with the current gearing system and it was clearly gear that held them back until the re-clear.

[Sainur]

It's just a garbage system overall, even in pugs. Was pugging heroic Uldir the other day and 6 people got loot at Vectis, and guess what, they were all cloaks.

Guess they didn't pull the lever on the slot machine with enough faith. Oh well, better luck next time!

[fathom81]

It's not that it breaks progression on the average, but there are some edges cases that are very annoying. It's especially true with weapons, where you appearently need a better version of each weapon type before you can trade them, which is just insane. If I already had a good staff, why couldn't I trade a slightly worse mace?

Besides, if you optimize the loot distribution, it's more than 0.5% upgrade, since you obviously give it to people for whom it's far more beneficial. Some going for 375 to 375+socket vs another guy replacing their old 340. Who knows, maybe that's exactly what will let that person finally pull their weight on Devourer or something.

Either way, the whole system works pretty much like predicted. The vast majority didn't notice any change and some people are screwed over. And I doubt that trials - which were supposedly abused by evil loot masters - are somehow faring much better than before. If their guilds really have such toxic atmosphere, they are probably getting screwed over in a different way. (or don't exist at all, but hey)

E: Also, I'm pretty sure Sco mentioned that Method would have killed G'huun in their first reset if ML was still a thing. Their split runs were less effective with the current gearing system and it was clearly gear that held them back until the re-clear.

I tottaly understand all the complaints, but i think the subject isnt as serious as to generate so much negative criticism!
Maybe its just mmochamp community's that has gone to the darkside or something, but I used to enjoy the forums, even before i had an account...

[Rusken]

Personal Loot as a concept is fine but the restrictions on trading make it kinda shit. If you could just trade anything you got regardless of its ilvl it would be fine and we wouldn't have these mythic raiders bitching about not having ML anymore.

[andrewjoy]

Personal loot has its advantages in things like LFR ( obviously ) 5 mans and when questing with friends. The fact that you cannot turn it off in a H or M raid is just insane.

The argument is that your guild could give all the loot to someone else and you get nothing, but thats only an argument if your guild is shit... and you know what, join a good guild then. I have ran in classic DKP guilds Zero sum guilds and loot council guilds and loot council is the best by far ( we always used council in 20s and later 10s anyway ). The loot goes ( or should in any good guild) to who can best use it, an alt would never get first dibs on that dagger, that's just a waste. THe whole idea of loot council is whats best for the team not the person.

Personal loot is just another way that they are taking the MM out of MMORPG, anyone who thinks its a good idea you cannot turn it off in raids is ether misinformed or a shill.

[Devere]

THe whole idea of loot council is whats best for the team not the person.

So basically, communism is better than capitalism.

[andrewjoy]

So basically, communism is better than capitalism.

Errr no. Its almost the opposite the way around.