Raider.io and Curve are ruining the game, wake up people.

[Ztranger]

Guilds ftw.

[Marrilaife]

Yeah, you wouldn't believe how easy it is to make "friends" when you play a role that is sought after, and you get whispers for m+ as soon as you login.

Bullshit. I play a tank and I have to beg people to actually come do any m+ farming for gear, most want 1 +10 and then fuck off. Extra bonus points for wanting to cycle all their undergeared alts through guild groups, because pugs will never take those. I helped so many people but I'm fed up, this week people depleted my key because healer decided to swap to his 350-something alt and was getting 1-shot by the tyrannical boss and I told them I need help to get another 10 done on my other tank (I have 2 chars both well equipped and capable of doing 10-11 in time, I don't ask to push hardcore), and they never helped me back.

P. S i know that making money from Boosting is just too good to pass, which is why i do it myself... Gotta pay the bills for raiding mythic somehow....

I used to make great gold from JC between wotlk and mop, and then Blizzard decided to nuke the number of sockets and my profession went next to useless. Then for 2 expansions I made tons of gold from "facebook mission tables", that's nerfed now as well. Do I have to remind that before WOD there was no garbage "augment runes" to drive up the price of raiding and give extra carrot for lfr? No wonder people boost left and right to keep themselves afloat.

They did literally the opposite. They increased server capacity, so most servers got bumped down a "tier", because relative to max capacity, they were no longer "high" population.

They did that... somewhere before Legion launch? And then, read my thread I linked from June, people from both EU and US noticed the same - servers went overnight from "low" to "medium" and from "medium" to "high" without any specific in-game event triggering it (it was long ago before pre-patch). They just changed the labels arbitrarily because it looked sad and pathetic 90% of the servers were "low", handful of mediums and maybe 3 at high. Dead wastelands like The Sha'tar-EU (super backwater RP realm) went to medium.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ulation-levels

Oh yeah, and they still refuse to merge servers because it gives them $$$ from mythic raiders leaving these low pops and joining the "full" realms. There are realms that don't even have 1 page of guilds that killed mythic Taloc, while he's being pugged on the "full" realms every week. There's maybe 10 servers tops on EU that have healthy population that supports raiding, proper economy and so on. Rest should be merged as long ago as WOD and the big sub dropoff.

And yeah, Blizzard should change the m+ from "leaderboard" to just recording every run. That doesn't cost that much, it's just text data storage.

[Shalaator]

Damn, you mean an ilevel 350, level 19 neckpiece scrub like me has to put in effort to raid cutting edge content? Damn! /ragequit

If Mythic raiding or high end PvP is your end game content, then get in line.

[Aurora]

Do you guys remember when you had to go to the Orgrimmar bank roof to get inspected? Or when people asked how much defense rating you had?
There will always be a way to pick players from a lot. Sure, it's easier now and maybe the tools we have are not the best, but it's not like blocking them would make a huge difference.
The only thing Blizz can do is implement their own 'score' in the interface - like they did with iLvl to replace Gearscore. But not that's gonna alleviate the problem by much.

This is true but those sort of requirements were usually for relevant gearing and information like making sure players were gemmed and enchanted, tanks had their block cap. Sometimes you even had to link logs. They were soft checks with varying requirements depending on the raid leader. The raid leader had to actually think about the player, consider their experiences and maybe even *gasp* talk to them to test their strategy knowledge.
It was a much better and more MMO styled system than hard aggregate numbers comprised of some relevant and some irrelevant data to give an idea of how skilled the player is. It's kind of crazy that nowadays you can be poor at gearing and playing your class but will be highly sought after if you wound up in the right groups at the right time to get the right numbers to show up on an addon, if you fail 90% of all +10 keys you attempt nobody will even notice since you're only scored on the one you succeeded.

[Zoreyai]

Except it was much easier to buy good ilvl from a few raidcarries than it is buying a decent raider.io M+ history.

Sure, but you're implying everyone could afford that back then. It's less than 1% of the player base that buy carries.

[psyquest]

First week I did my mythic in guild. no issue

Second week I did them on pick up. luckily playing a DH its relatively easy to find groups. I focused on instances where I needed gear

Third week, people started asking for 1000 RIO, I did not focus all instance and didnt bother timing them with friends. So having about 750 I felt left out although I have been doing 10 since 1st week and timing then since second. I felt obliged to time all those instances I wasnt bothered with to get a better RIO, not because I wanted to nor because it was fun

Fourth week reset, I did an 11 timed and thought, easy week, lets have some fun. didnt do anything because of raiding until friday and then I realised people were pushing keys and now they were asking for 1300+

Damn it, need to time more keys at around 13 and above to stay relevant...

So I got a group of guildies and timed a few 13 , 14, 15. I am now at 1300 nearly with 4 instances I still havent done at 12+ because of time.

next week, the idiots with RIO will be asking for 1500 and above.

This is not fun at all.

[BiggestNoob]

No it's not.

/thread ?

[Ztranger]

Raider.io is really good when making pick up groups.

[Gonder]

I can understand why people wish to utilise such tools, though that being said, I can't help but feel as though I'm in the same boat as the OP. IO score does not demonstrate one's skill. I ran at least one +15 every week of 7.3, to the point where my ilvl was akin to a mythic raider's. That being said, I'd learned what dungeons were and weren't worth doing, so there were many I was sure to always skip. In consequence of this, my IO score suffered and many of these groups straight up ignored me; there was nothing wrong with my healing ability, at least from my experiences of healing all the groups that I did.

So, yeah, it's hard not to feel frustrated that you're getting denied from certain groups when it feels as though you shouldn't, all because of some third party website. I could try and run every dungeon, sure, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm simply too lazy. And not to mention that the people who demand these high scores come across as rather... hostile. When I'm choosing my groups, I tend to aim for those that are more relaxed; it's more comforting and therefore makes it easier for me to remain focussed on the healing, rather worrying about whether or not the next person might explode over a potential mistake through the dungeon.

[HuxNeva]

Sure, but you're implying everyone could afford that back then. It's less than 1% of the player base that buy carries.

Even without paying, a raider has more places to fade into the background in a guild group of 14+ than as the solo healer or one of 3 dps in a M+. And even a M raider that has no knowledge of M+ affixes or the instance you are doing will be a boatancher for the run. The only decent signal is the previous relevant content experience.

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I can understand why people wish to utilise such tools, though that being said, I can't help but feel as though I'm in the same boat as the OP. IO score does not demonstrate one's skill. I ran at least one +15 every week of 7.3, to the point where my ilvl was akin to a mythic raider's. That being said, I'd learned what dungeons were and weren't worth doing, so there were many I was sure to always skip. In consequence of this, my IO score suffered and many of these groups straight up ignored me; there was nothing wrong with my healing ability, at least from my experiences of healing all the groups that I did.

So, yeah, it's hard not to feel frustrated that you're getting denied from certain groups when it feels as though you shouldn't, all because of some third party website. I could try and run every dungeon, sure, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm simply too lazy. And not to mention that the people who demand these high scores come across as rather... hostile. When I'm choosing my groups, I tend to aim for those that are more relaxed; it's more comforting and therefore makes it easier for me to remain focussed on the healing, rather worrying about whether or not the next person might explode over a potential mistake through the dungeon.

Unfortunately 'score' is one of the lesser interesting signals you get through raider.io. Much more relevant is the experience the player has with the instance at hand (and today's affixes). That is what I looked at first when I pugged in Legion. 'Score' can be interesting if you are looking for broadly experienced people for pushing a key over several runs, but if you are doing a +13 Siege and the player has a nice overall score but no siege experience, he will still slow the run.

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Oh yeah, and they still refuse to merge servers because it gives them $$$ from mythic raiders leaving these low pops and joining the "full" realms. .

Trust me, that specific source of income is negligible.

[Jazzhands]

Back when I used them in legion they made the game much better for me, I could easily find people with similar gear/skill. The only people who seem to have a problem with people playing with people of similar skill and gear are the people with lower gear or skill.

Back before ilvl/gearscore people would just straight up inspect you. "LFM Kara inspecting at Aldor bank". Remove inspect? Get ready for an addon that estimates your ilvl based on HP. Make it so people can't see HP? Get ready for an addon that will somehow estimate your HP based on what % a heal heals you for or something, i dunno I don't make addons. But you get my point.

[Kiri]

I can understand why people wish to utilise such tools, though that being said, I can't help but feel as though I'm in the same boat as the OP. IO score does not demonstrate one's skill. I ran at least one +15 every week of 7.3, to the point where my ilvl was akin to a mythic raider's. That being said, I'd learned what dungeons were and weren't worth doing, so there were many I was sure to always skip. In consequence of this, my IO score suffered and many of these groups straight up ignored me; there was nothing wrong with my healing ability, at least from my experiences of healing all the groups that I did.

So, yeah, it's hard not to feel frustrated that you're getting denied from certain groups when it feels as though you shouldn't, all because of some third party website. I could try and run every dungeon, sure, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm simply too lazy. And not to mention that the people who demand these high scores come across as rather... hostile. When I'm choosing my groups, I tend to aim for those that are more relaxed; it's more comforting and therefore makes it easier for me to remain focussed on the healing, rather worrying about whether or not the next person might explode over a potential mistake through the dungeon.

You really shouldn't have to. But that is where we are, simply because people are too scared of actually having to deal with new or unknown players. Heck, just yesterday, I was making my own group with a friend on my alt. 360 ilvl, tanked Uldir on normal and HC, but next to no M+ - and dps actually complained about my score almost immediately after inviting. The whole 'make your own group' thing doesn't work either anymore. If I hadn't had a high-scored friend with me that could 'vouch' for me, we wouldn't have even started, despite easily finishing in time. Heck, could have gotten multiple chests if it hadn't been for people with higher scores than me messing about. Was fun though, but again in spite of raider.io, not because of it.

[rogoth]

This post really only deserves a "git gud".

Why would I bring someone with 200 m+ score to a +11 when I have access to a lot of people who have at least done enough m+ to time a +10 per dungeon. If I have to pick a random I don't know with 200 or a random I don't know with 1000 I'll take the 1000 every single time.

Same for Curve.

Ilvl is always considered alongside this.

you're the reason that systems such as R.IO and others get blamed by the lower end of the community for problems that are player made.

lets take your example shall we:

you're setting up a group to do a dungeon at +10 @750+ score difficulty and are looking for your last spot, you have 2 applicants, one of which has an average score ranking as they have completed all dungeons at a slightly lower level than you are looking for, giving them a score of lets say 500, the other is someone who has a score at a glance of 230 points, upon closer inspection it shows that this score is generate from them doing a timed keystone of +15 for the dungeon you are looking for, but no other dungeon runs, 99/100 you will instantly discard person B in favour of person A because you don't know how the system works properly and aren't willing to look past the arbitrary numbers which mean very little.

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I can understand why people wish to utilise such tools, though that being said, I can't help but feel as though I'm in the same boat as the OP. IO score does not demonstrate one's skill. I ran at least one +15 every week of 7.3, to the point where my ilvl was akin to a mythic raider's. That being said, I'd learned what dungeons were and weren't worth doing, so there were many I was sure to always skip. In consequence of this, my IO score suffered and many of these groups straight up ignored me; there was nothing wrong with my healing ability, at least from my experiences of healing all the groups that I did.

So, yeah, it's hard not to feel frustrated that you're getting denied from certain groups when it feels as though you shouldn't, all because of some third party website. I could try and run every dungeon, sure, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm simply too lazy. And not to mention that the people who demand these high scores come across as rather... hostile. When I'm choosing my groups, I tend to aim for those that are more relaxed; it's more comforting and therefore makes it easier for me to remain focussed on the healing, rather worrying about whether or not the next person might explode over a potential mistake through the dungeon.

thing is, that's your own fault for making the decision that you weren't going to put the effort into a dungeon run on a higher difficulty because you didn't feel it was worth your time, same reason you were denied access to higher quality runs, they didn't feel it was worth their time to invest in you, another thing also, your class will have also played a big part in the decision to decline your invite as much as your score, at higher levels and as you increase in difficulty the min/max kicks in, whereby if you wanted to push really high keys you needed a paladin healer end of story, disc was possible but was nowhere close to paladin in terms of output and utility, in legion i was rank 1 mage on realm for M+, and even with that i would regularly get declined for invites to higher tier keys purely because at the time, mage wasn't a high enough dmg dealer for the dungeons without some kind of gimmick in play and as such players with lower score than mine were invited because of class/spec.

[Deleted]

Il just quote something:


"11 hours ago

1) R.io Doesn't show actual skill. I've had so many people who have high score but who are completely braindead.
2) The page doesn't even work properly. My mage isn't being tracked properly because I changed name on it when I changed race on it, it still awards like half the runs to my former name for some reason. A name that no longer exists.

------------------------------

R.io does indeed show skill. It's pure and objective. You've either done it or you didn't.

People up to ~1.3k are still bad. They know what's up, but not enough to call them "good players". I'm 1.1k myself with solely pugs and everyone at this score is pretty bad. It's a 50/50 every run.

Raider.io works perfectly for everyone I know, me included. Thread is about something else."


Honestly, dose stupidety spread?

[Kieldon]

Did a +13 TD yesterday, premade group except for one DPS. After one wipe on the third boss (our first wipe) he called us pathetic and left. Raider.io is fine if you're looking for someone competent, but those hunting only the highest score are among the most toxic elitists in the game.

[Daffan]

Only bad people complain about .io

Just make your own groups or join noob groups to build your score.

Stop trying to get carried by people.

[Deleted]

Guilds ftw.

Same bullshit. I joined a guild a couple of weeks ago. People post their +7 keys in chat and ask if anyone wants in. I say I do (I have 3rd highest ilevel in the guild), and no response. Because even guild members check raiderio of other guild members.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Same bullshit. I joined a guild a couple of weeks ago. People post their +7 keys in chat and ask if anyone wants in. I say I do (I have 3rd highest ilevel in the guild), and no response. Because even guild members check raiderio of other guild members.

That's not all guilds. Most guilds, once they get to know you, take you or not based on their experiences with you in game. If you are top performer on raid team, they will invite you for M+. They might have to give you some M+ pointers, but if they know you are good player and they will be gaming with you often, that makes you worth the investment. Also guild mates will usually try to help everyone on raid team get a key done for week because it helps the raid team, thereby helping them get more raid loot and progression. And my favorite guilds - the ones I stay in - run stuff together because we have fun doing stuff together.

I will say... which guild mates I invite for a particular key might depend on whether I'm done pushing that key. Maybe there's a guildie we all love, but we know they are not very good at M+... Why invite them to a 9, knowing it will downgrade with them in group, if we can first push to 10 and then invite them? Even they come out better if we push to 10 first.

Bottom line is guilds are all different, and individuals in guilds are different, but I'd still rather hang with guild mates I get to know than with random strangers. At least guild mates know that if they invest time in helping each other it will come back to help them too.

[MalfLFT]

The problem arises when those of us with storied raid history (I have every AotC in the game) suddenly have life changes (babies, marriage, new / time consuming job etc) that make it where we can't run stuff as often as we used to be able to, but now that we can't do that, our "scores" are low and suddenly we're lumped in with the people who don't actually know how to play.

At least when they used to Armory you instead, they could view all of your past history, not just whatever is current. It's super frustrating for those of us that can play at a high level, just not as often as we once could.

I play m+ very rarely and have an IO at 1k, which will get you in with most decent groups. You can literally get this with playing m+ 1 or 2 times a week. AOTC though, if you don't get it those first weeks then you probably have to pay your way around it and then you can use that for the remainder of the tier.

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Raider.IO is one of the only grinds left in the game worth investing in, climbing the ladder and getting gradually higher in m+ is quite rewarding. It also creates a nice community of like minded people in the different brackets and is one of the last remnants of social interactions in pugs. Stop whining you weak little person and make your own group, climb the ladder, I and most others did, stop asking for hand outs, its pathetic. AOTC, well sure it sucks if you don't get it early on but you don't want to add achievements to final bosses anymore?(this reply is for the OP)

[Shakou]

I play m+ very rarely

No wonder you think prot warriors and shamans are fine.

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and have an IO at 1k

You don't even need to do a 10 let alone time one to get this score, let alone do high keys. lmao dude you have no business having such strong opinions about M+ you are not a highly experienced player, okay? You are the kind of person we're trying to screen out of our high keys. Stop abusing raiderio. It isn't even a tool intended for you.