Why do people have a problem with titanforging?

[Leenaleena]

and you will never have this feeling because blizzard dont want you to chase it in first place.

they openly told they dont want people to chase BiS.

so its only your own fault if you are doing it.

As long as I don't feel that I'm done gearing my character, I feel insanely guilty whenever I do non-gear related things in WoW, be it pet battle, transmog farm or achievement hunting. I love to do all of these things, but since Legion and the insane WF/TF and M+ system hit, I've been lagging behind dramatically. The fault is with me of course since I want to do all the things. As much as people hate WoD, its content draughts were heaven for people like me.

For the time being.

Exactly.

Why do you wanna be done though? Don't you like raiding? If you get to a point where you wanna take a break, but there are technically still upgrades for you in the form of TFing, then why not say "ok, my character can still get better gear, but I've raided the same bosses for weeks, I need a break". Then come back with the next patch.

Do you want a goal to chase or do you want permission to take a break? Do you raid for fun or are you obsessed with gear?

See above

[Babadoo]

This is the problem.

Last week I ran around 50 mythic runs. All of them 10+. I got around 25 items. Non of them even warforged. I am stuck on the same Ilvl for 2 weeks even though I spam mythic like crazy.

All this while there are some lucky shits with 390 in every slot who have run a fraction of what I did. Their ilvl is 380 while mine is still around 375. Guess who is more likely to get into groups. You guessed it, the lucky guy.

That's the problem with titanforging. If you are not lucky you will lag behind and it will be insanely hard for you to get into groups at some point. And it isn't about amount of runs you do. You can do a 1000 and get one titanforge while some dude runs 20 and get 5 titanforges.

[slime]

It was very much possible. Once you were decked out in a current raid tier's BiS items you were done for the time being. I remember getting to that point and feeling elation and happiness that I could sit back for several weeks/months until new content would be released.

Sure.. if you are a quitter. You can always get a better piece of BiS with more titanforging or gem slot or third stat. Unless you meant all your gear was maxed titanforging+ gem slots+ third stat.
And if you had that, then congrats you accomplished the impossible. I doubt you were even close. Sounds like you were just tired of it all and decided what you had was BiS and you were done.

[Deleted]

In a system based on probability, there is such a thing as realistic expectation.

Great, and right now the most realistic expectation is to roll random item every week by doing the easiest thing possible rather than trying for hours to kill 7th boss in a raid. That's the reality. Nobody in the right mind should try doing any hard content because realistically the time you spend and preparation you need is outclassed by randomly getting better item from faceroll content. That's the reality. You seem to ignore the argument with a passion but we will just keep repeating it:

- You study everyday for a class, every single day, for hours to get an A and then you get that A but Billy who played world of warcraft instead of studying gets a D but the D titanforges into an A. What is the point of studying if in the end by doing the least amount of work you get the same result?

The problem isn't that billy got titanforged A, screw billy. But what's the point of putting anything hard in the game at this point? What's the point of Mythic Raiding? Pushing M+ keys, getting better in PvP so you get better gear? Just log in on Sunday, kill world boss get titanforged item and repeat it next week.

[ToxicFlame]

In a system based on probability, there is such a thing as realistic expectation. I know that the odds are my loot will not titanforge. Probably not even warforge. I expect seeing upgraded gear every now and then as opposed to all the time and so I'm not disappointed. All that fluff about lowering expectation may be valid in situations determined by human interaction, but mathematics will not care about what result you accept.

and since it'S a god damn game, the expectation should be that i can farm the bis before the next tier. and that was the case until wod

[spalernTJ]

RNG, within RNG. Its more complicated gambling. Every time you kill a boss, you roll a 10-sided dice. 1-7 you get no loot, 8-9 you get a normal piece of loot. Then you have #10, which should be the big jackpot, but instead of you getting your greatest luck, it turns into this: Kill boss, throw dice, hit 10.... Dice throws another dice, dice hits 1, you just got a 5 ILvL warforge. Meanwhile, bob rolls a 10, which then rolls a 6, boom, he got the same item, titanforged +20.

There are several reasons why people dislike this kind of RNG within RNG. Getting BiS is almost a statistic impossibility, and there are many raiders who wants BiS, understandably so, in a game where the main progression system revolves around gaining loot to make your char stronger, who wouldn't want the best of the best? This is a smart choice on Blizzard's end, cause when you have people that wants true Best in Slot, then they have only one choice... Play the game, forever, or until they burn out.

LFR Drops also having the chance of becoming as strong as heroic difficulty content is extremely disheartening to many people. LFR is a joke, now don't get me wrong, I understand that there are people who do not have the time, attention or will to do real raiding, but LFR is nothing but a joke in regards to difficulty. Getting drops of such a high level, in such a low level, feels bad for players who's doing harder content.

I'm gonna compare it to the Olympics to give an idea of why it pisses people off. Lets say you have a Platinum, gold, silver and bronze medal (Since there's 4 difficulties.) The mythic raiders kills a boss, and thus, they get their shiny, unique platinum medal (Highest ILvL loot,) Heroic raiders do the same, they get their gold medal. Then we have the silver guys doing normal, but, even though they didn't work as hard or as much as the heroic raiders, they're awarded a gold model too, why? Just cause. Then there's bronze, fuck it, lets throw them a platinum medal. They didn't do anything even remotely close to the difficulty of Platinum, but hey, there's not gonna be any difference in players, that'd be silly.

So you have 4 difficulties, where the lowest, can grant the same as the highest, why even bother then?

[Leenaleena]

Sure.. if you are a quitter. You can always get a better piece of BiS with more titanforging or gem slot or third stat. Unless you meant all your gear was maxed titanforging+ gem slots+ third stat.
And if you had that, then congrats you accomplished the impossible. I doubt you were even close. Sounds like you were just tired of it all and decided what you had was BiS and you were done.

BiS gear before all the stupid +socket +stat +WF/TF stuff. That's the enire point. For me, BiS gear was BiS stat Mythic(Heroic) raid drops.

[Mendzia]

If you bad player but lucky enough you can get better items than hardcore raider which should not happen.

[Loveliest]

So when you boil it down to how much work everyone else put in and someone comes along puts a minimal amount of effort in (in effect got boosted) and pulls a 395 out it makes you pretty sour. Not at the player, but at this ridiculous system.

So the problem is being bitter your teammate got an upgrade? Doesn't it help your team when doing next week, so you can all get items?
Doesn't that happen in a raid, too? You all kill one boss and only a few people get loot? But overall your team benefits from it and at some point you'll get an item too?

I think at this point people just complain for the sake of complaining and forget anything of higher level helps you and your group.

[Naked Snake]

RNG, within RNG. Its more complicated gambling. Every time you kill a boss, you roll a 10-sided dice. 1-7 you get no loot, 8-9 you get a normal piece of loot. Then you have #10, which should be the big jackpot, but instead of you getting your greatest luck, it turns into this: Kill boss, throw dice, hit 10.... Dice throws another dice, dice hits 1, you just got a 5 ILvL warforge. Meanwhile, bob rolls a 10, which then rolls a 6, boom, he got the same item, titanforged +20.

There are several reasons why people dislike this kind of RNG within RNG. Getting BiS is almost a statistic impossibility, and there are many raiders who wants BiS, understandably so, in a game where the main progression system revolves around gaining loot to make your char stronger, who wouldn't want the best of the best? This is a smart choice on Blizzard's end, cause when you have people that wants true Best in Slot, then they have only one choice... Play the game, forever, or until they burn out.

LFR Drops also having the chance of becoming as strong as heroic difficulty content is extremely disheartening to many people. LFR is a joke, now don't get me wrong, I understand that there are people who do not have the time, attention or will to do real raiding, but LFR is nothing but a joke in regards to difficulty. Getting drops of such a high level, in such a low level, feels bad for players who's doing harder content.

I'm gonna compare it to the Olympics to give an idea of why it pisses people off. Lets say you have a Platinum, gold, silver and bronze medal (Since there's 4 difficulties.) The mythic raiders kills a boss, and thus, they get their shiny, unique platinum medal (Highest ILvL loot,) Heroic raiders do the same, they get their gold medal. Then we have the silver guys doing normal, but, even though they didn't work as hard or as much as the heroic raiders, they're awarded a gold model too, why? Just cause. Then there's bronze, fuck it, lets throw them a platinum medal. They didn't do anything even remotely close to the difficulty of Platinum, but hey, there's not gonna be any difference in players, that'd be silly.

So you have 4 difficulties, where the lowest, can grant the same as the highest, why even bother then?

Maybe just learn not to be obsessed about getting Best in Slot?

[prwraith]

For the time being.

Exactly.

Since you seem to enjoy playing devils advocate so much.

So you're saying you like running on an endless treadmill with no chance of ever reaching the end, or even a break?

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Maybe just learn not to be obsessed about getting Best in Slot?

Getting the best gear in every slot, is a hallmark of playing RPG's.

[spalernTJ]

Maybe just learn not to be obsessed about getting Best in Slot?

Why? Because you told me? Should I, and everyone else just say "Fuck it" And delete our char when we get to 120, so we can level anew? BiS is the Best of the Best, WoW is a game centered around loot as progression... So should I just shove the main progression aside and do the mindless grind? Wait, mindless Grind for what?

[Deleted]

So the problem is being bitter your teammate got an upgrade?

The problem is that there is no point of doing anything remotely hard because by the time you get there, you will be swimming in better gear by getting lucky procs from doing the least engaging content possible. I don't even need to go Uldir HC because I got lucky procs from my M+ chest that I don't even remember doing. And it shouldn't be that way. Nobody in the guild wants to raid because we can just do one M+10 a week and be over with it. The social aspect of raiding is gone, it takes too much preparation, everybody is annoyed that the upgrade didn't drop and they wasted their time while they could fail M+10 and get better item. That's the problem. By failing over and over again you get rewarded more than from winning once. Don't try to project your laziness and lack of goals onto the game, if you don't need anything from the game, don't tell everyone else that it's ok to be lazy and uninspired. WoW in it's prime was about goals and accomplishments and not about being lazy and boring. If you don't have the time for it, then why do you play this game, go be productive somewhere else.

[Naked Snake]

Since you seem to enjoy playing devils advocate so much.

So you're saying you like running on an endless treadmill with no chance of ever reaching the end, or even a break?

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Getting the best gear in every slot, is a hallmark of playing RPG's.

If a player needs a break it's his responsibility to take one. You don't need to reach BiS to allow yourself a break. You're an adult. You can make the decision when you need a break.

Raiding has always been an endless treadmill. New raids with better gear will always come out, which is why I lost interest in the gear treadmill in Wrath.

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Why? Because you told me? Should I, and everyone else just say "Fuck it" And delete our char when we get to 120, so we can level anew? BiS is the Best of the Best, WoW is a game centered around loot as progression... So should I just shove the main progression aside and do the mindless grind? Wait, mindless Grind for what?

Who said you should level a new character? Try to be reasonable instead of being angry.

[Sarkol]

Because you can never be BiS.
There is always an upgrade.
The grind never stops.
You can never complete your character.

1. So what?
2. So what?
3. You don't need to grind, just do the content you do and maybe you'll get a TF or WF on top of what you get already.
4. Gear is erased every few months anyway, so who cares?

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Because, with enough "luck", you can literally run a heroic dungeon and get better gear then a mythic raider.

You can get 1 item possibly better than a mythic raider, which is utterly irrelevant. Overall gear is still going to be far worse, and overall i level is what matters.

[Loveliest]

II could sit back

Define 'sit back'. I recall having bis gear in wrath/icc and I continued playing like always for my guild until the end of the expansion.

[prwraith]

If a player needs a break it's his responsibility to take one. You don't need to reach BiS to allow yourself a break. You're an adult. You can make the decision when you need a break.

Raiding has always been an endless treadmill. New raids with better gear will always come out, which is why I lost interest in the gear treadmill in Wrath.

After reading through most of this thread, I think you're intentionally missing the point.

You've said it a few times. We all KNOW there's another expansion or another raid or another whatever down the road. That's not the point.

The point is to finish, to get the best. To know that you've done all there is and that you've reached the "current" pinnacle. The feeling associated with that is why some people got into raiding to begin with. That feeling of completion before the next raid / expansion has since been robbed and in its place an endless treadmill.

[spalernTJ]

Who said you should level a new character? Try to be reasonable instead of being angry.

Why am I not allowed to be angry? You're telling me how to play the game, with no real arguments behind it. We're presenting reasons, arguments and why -we- aren't happy. And all you're saying is "Just don't give a fuck man," which is what I'm getting more and more inclined towards.

[prwraith]

Why am I not allowed to be angry? You're telling me how to play the game, with no real arguments behind it. We're presenting reasons, arguments and why -we- aren't happy. And all you're saying is "Just don't give a fuck man," which is what I'm getting more and more inclined towards.

I'm glad someone else noticed the OP didn't actually give a shit about his own question. He just came here to talk down to everyone else lol

[Deleted]

4. Gear is erased every few months anyway, so who cares?

This is the dumbest argument yet. Everyone dies in the end, but we keep living because we set goals in life and work towards them. With your attitude we shouldn't do that because we're all dead meat in the ground anyway. That's your argument. It's the laziest and most dismissive argument used to invalidate someone.