Ridiculous Entry Requirements in (Bad) Guilds These Days

[Shakou]

Is there a trend of more of those kind of guilds more and more over the last 3 xpacs, or does it just seem like there's a lot more of these sort of guilds because there's less quality players and guilds actively playing (beyond the sea of puggers/non raiders etc) the game in general?

I feel like the more that information in this video game has become accessible, the more that incompetent people that probably shouldn't be in charge of anything misuse that information/ignore the important parts about it because they don't know how to interpret any of it. This is something seen frequently in M+, where people frequently turn down over/better qualified applicants than the person with the key.

I'm seeing this happen with guilds that have no business heavily scrutinizing anyone really. I mean guilds that have never even been on progression on the end boss of a raid tier on the highest difficulty setting or even close to it, but over emphasize the importance of parses over solid logs that show mechanical excellence and a long history of progress raiding that shows someone is an all-around more experienced and well rounded player than they are.

I mean like if you can't even properly go over logs to see that people are playing excellently for what they are able to get into you should not even be in charge of a guild at all. That is a basic requirement for being a guild leader or recruitment officer unless you're in a guild that probably should focus on just getting bodies into their raid instead of looking for all-star players that are desperate enough to join you.

You see it often in their recruitment messages in trade and what not "<XYZ GUILD> 1-3/8 Mythic LF Exceptional Players to fill out our mythic roster!" like news flash: exceptional players are looking for exceptional guilds to join, they're not looking to carry a bunch of toxic mouth breathers that suck at math and spatial/situational awareness.

I know I'm probably going to get flamed, harassed and trolled endlessly just for posting this, but I'm talking about "Mythic raid guilds" with maybe 2-3 mythic bosses down on average each tier that ask for orange parses far too often. I mean why would a really experienced player that has past history full clearing raids when they're current even join your guild, and why would you turn them down assuming that maybe they don't have the same current raid experience as you but they do have impeccable gear and their non mythic raid logs are solid?

There's a lot of players migrating from dying realms y'all, and I'm seeing a raid scene that just isn't healthy and is slowly bleeding to death IMO because of this vicious cycle of even getting into A GUILD and it being a welcoming and good experience outside of raiding for anyone to even want to stay in that guild long term.

Before I took a long break from the game from mid-MOP until the end of WOD I literally found it easier to get into top 400, 200 and even some top 100 guilds (even without logs, let alone top parses) than it sometimes is to get into some not even top 1000 guilds these days. This is why the culture of people joining guilds just to get into better guilds exists. Never in my entirety of playing WOW have I seen that kind of thing as prevalent as I do now. People used to actually mostly find a guild and stay in it, and guilds used to spend more time trialing people than they do turning them down because they don't have orange parses across the board.

I mean I don't wanna toot my own horn but I have gotten top 10-20 parses in the world in pugs without even trying in the past. So it's not like I can't parse, it is just that this culture that is obsessed with that kind of thing is the most stupid thing I have ever seen in this game.

I mean I even got into Blood Legion once after BOT/BWD/TOFW progress was over and they were doing Firelands PTR and I had no god damn logs at all for crying out loud and they were the top raiding guild in the US at the time.

Is this less an issue in the EU? Perhaps this kind of thing also explains why some guilds would extend a lockout instead of reclearing for a guaranteed world 1st as well. Food for thought...

[drbatman]

hahahah git gud baddie

[Psidum]

Your threads/posts read less like wow observations and more like therapy session notes.

[MoanaLisa]

Your opinion of what a guild should and shouldn't scrutinize doesn't matter. It's their clubhouse. They make the rules.

No, I don't think it's especially worse than it has been historically. There have been threads for years about guilds that have long application forms to fill out and some that require you write essays and stuff.

Those guilds can easily be avoided. I don't like social engagement with self-important players.

What you say here about your accomplishments matters not a bit. A lot of guilds are looking for someone to fit in. There are a number of people here that I would never knowingly be in a guild with for that reason alone. If someone is all about creating forum drama then it is a certainty that they will be creating guild drama at some point.

[Shakou]

Lol dude. I saw a wall of text that I haven't read but this sentence...

That's rich coming from a guy with no idea what a wall of text even is. Those are short easy yo read paragraphs you simpleton.

[iamthedevil]

Excuse me, what the fuck.

[Shakou]

Your opinion of what a guild should and shouldn't scrutinize doesn't matter.

Excuse me? Well that's just your opinion. And your opinion of my opinion does not matter to me one iota, see how that works? But everyone's opinion matters to someone, so maybe don't belittle people you don't even know just because you disagree with them. Present a better argument or don't respond. You're a moderator here too? You should be setting a better example instead of encouraging more dogpiling. Save the personal jabs and condescending bs tyvm.

- - - Updated - - -

Never seen a guild that asked orange logs and they weren't top 500 or above. There are SO MANY guilds (at least were when I played back in legion and earlier) where you can get in with just a nice application, written correctly, a good UI and an ability to explain why you're using what addons you're using and how. I mean, my alts were in my original guild from Vanilla, and they were world 800-1300 give or take, yet clearing all bosses each tier in the end, slowly but surely. The recruiting officers were so desperate. One of them accepted people simply because they were able to explain their weakaura setup. Others would take you in simply based on you promising to show for raid with 90% attendance. If you were able to produce something like a Burning Crusade or Vanilla "raid experience" in the application, shit, you were basically in 100%.

Even in my main guild which was like top 50, we were allowing in plenty of people, but an equal number would leave by themselves after witnessing who they were competing with for raid spots. But we wouldn't really said "No!" to somebody that asked nicely for trial if they were dedicated enough.

So I'm really puzzled about what kind of guilds you want in. The best advice I can come up with is have a very clean UI, preferably made by you, not just some generic WAs you got from the net, be able to explain talent choices and what you would do at specific times in an encounter, and yes, in the end you'll probably have to produce some logs, which hopefully aren't the type where you died the first minute or did just a bit more DPS than the tank while ignoring half the mechanics.

But the properly written application is 90% of it all. Take one hour and just fill it properly and spell check everything.

Anyway, very strange post. Should be incredibly easy to get in a guild, so much desperation.

I'm not asking for advice to get into guilds, I have no problem getting into guilds. I'm just pointing out something I have observed from a lot of actually really bad guilds that I didn't really notice until Warlords of Draenor but have seen far more frequently and on the rise since then. If you aren't interested in the topic or don't really have anything to add you could always try not responding. lmao

[WolfRider]

WoW these days reminds me 2002 when the Web Business became huge and every startup asked for expert level on every kind of programation languages for a ridiculous paycheck and no real clients but themselves.
Because it was the HYPE

And like Public Enemy once told:

D-O-N'T B-E-L-I-E-V-E T-H-E H-Y-P-E

Now I see a generation of videogame players (around the 15 to 25 years old) wasting more time watching other players' Twitch channels and idealizing a way to play instead of working their own.

This is ridiculous.

Kill that Twitch horsesh|t and learn to play.

When I started WoW back in 2004 the "L2P" was real, because you had to learn by yourself.
No video tutorials, no streaming, no "How To" guides.
Just you, the other players (who eventually will become friends) and hours of playing together to build cohesion and make a real progression that would last for years.

Now, for the majority of players dabatase, what do we got?
People are applying or recruiting to get the best thing for the less team work effort.

[Shakou]

WoW these days reminds me 2002 when the Web Business became huge and every startup asked for expert level on every kind of programation languages for a ridiculous paycheck and no real clients but themselves.
Because it was the HYPE

And like Public Enemy once told:

D-O-N'T B-E-L-I-E-V-E T-H-E H-Y-P-E

Now I see a generation of videogame players (around the 15 to 25 years old) wasting more time watching other players' Twitch channels and idealizing a way to play instead of working their own.

This is ridiculous.

Kill that Twitch horsesh|t and learn to play.

When I started WoW back in 2004 the "L2P" was real, because you had to learn by yourself.
No video tutorials, no streaming, no "How To" guides.
Just you, the other players (who eventually will become friends) and hours of playing together to build cohesion and make a real progression that would last for years.

Now, for the majority of players dabatase, what do we got?
People are applying or recruiting to get the best thing for the less team work effort.

10/10 would read again and thank you man. You're speaking my language. Like I do watch some streamers on twitch but legitimately I do not really need to watch any of them at all to make my way around the game, to figure out the best way to set up my UI, play my class or any of that. It's purely for entertainment, sometimes I will pick up some obscure things (like double shrouding in M+ by popping shroud right b4 timer etc), but it's always something obscure I don't have any general questions for virtually anyone no matter who they are, only extremely specific questions that most people in their channel wouldn't even understand and might dogpile on me just for asking.

Post anything like this on twitch and you instantly get dogpiled on. It's like people are telling you you're the person you're talking about even when everything you had to say was strictly non personal and non offensive. Just simple matter of fact.

It's ridiculous, I am an old school gamer. My first video game rpg was the original Legend of Zelda when it was a new game. I grew up on table top RPGS. I was actually a for real math and science whiz kid who taught myself how to read and write, and skipped multiple classes and was a total nerd, and so games like this were fun to me because they rewarded my thinking and analytical skills. Nowadays? It's all about people's feelings and they get hurt really bad when you point out they're not good at math.

[Torto]

Guilds are not what most people thinks guilds should be. Most players in a guild are just solo players taking advantage of the guild perks. Since mop all the guilds I've been in have a small nucleus of players that do group content together and the remaining 80% of the members are running around doing things solo or in pugs. If a guild wanted me to fill out an application form and then go over my play experience I'll just give them the finger.

[shaunika123]

guilds can ask for anything they want for, it's their guild.

if they ask for too much, then don't join?

pretty sure there are hundreds of mythic guilds in the early 1-3 boss bracket to choose from.

- - - Updated - - -

Guilds are not what most people thinks guilds should be. Most players in a guild are just solo players taking advantage of the guild perks. Since mop all the guilds I've been in have a small nucleus of players that do group content together and the remaining 80% of the members are running around doing things solo or in pugs. If a guild wanted me to fill out an application form and then go over my play experience I'll just give them the finger.

trust me they'll be happy not to have you.

[Marrilaife]

Haven't noticed ridiculous log requirements, but noticed various weird requirements in general, for example:

- Back in WOD a guild that was 3/10m in BRF was asking applicants to be "at least 2/10m or above", I mean if they already have similar progress why would they join you, unless their guild disbanded. I know much more progressed guilds that will give player a trial based on good heroic logs and little mythic experience, trial is to prove yourself anyway, if you aren't good enough you won't last.

- Guilds asking for really high levels of gear / AP both in Legion and in BFA in comparison to what kind of content are they accomplishing to clear.

- Guilds that would ask you some really personal stuff in the app, completely unrelated to the game (puts me off immediately)

- Guilds that were trying to police you (for example "all your alts must be in the guild", or another example, some casual weekend heroic raiding guild demanding you "must be a main, no alts" to join them)

And worst of all:
- Guilds asking for fotm classes / specs when their progress is nowhere near the level that demands fotm specs and class stacking (for example guilds that don't even raid mythic, only heroic)

[Shakou]

Guilds are not what most people thinks guilds should be. Most players in a guild are just solo players taking advantage of the guild perks. Since mop all the guilds I've been in have a small nucleus of players that do group content together and the remaining 80% of the members are running around doing things solo or in pugs. If a guild wanted me to fill out an application form and then go over my play experience I'll just give them the finger.

I personally have no issue with a basic recruitment process, such as an application and so on, and I do agree with most players just being solo players taking advantage of guild perks and such. But that's because of things like CRZ group finder raids and such that have eliminated the need to even have a guild for most players, so in that environment it's a bit absurd that guilds would adopt even more strict policies but also understanding for some because the environment is ripe for those kind of players you mention to take advantage.

[Torto]

I personally have no issue with a basic recruitment process, such as an application and so on, and I do agree with most players just being solo players taking advantage of guild perks and such. But that's because of things like CRZ group finder raids and such that have eliminated the need to even have a guild for most players, so in that environment it's a bit absurd that guilds would adopt even more strict policies but also understanding for some because the environment is ripe for those kind of players you mention to take advantage.

Agreed, a guild in wotlk was a far different creature to a guild in bfa. Because you were isolated on a server you had to play nice.

[Azelas]

if they are bad guilds then they are saving you from themselves, what else could you possibly want?

[Kurve1776]

I mean I even got into Blood Legion once

Who r u?

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[Sastank]

So uh user's on ignore list, it's a wall of text, and he's banned now. Can someone give a tl;dr or?

[durrtygoodz]

So uh user's on ignore list, it's a wall of text, and he's banned now. Can someone give a tl;dr or?

Just click reveal post if you care

[Sastank]

Just click reveal post if you care

I was curious and saw it was a wall of text, like I stated. Ty for the reply

[xxcloud417xx]

So uh user's on ignore list, it's a wall of text, and he's banned now. Can someone give a tl;dr or?

It’s a bit of a rant but there’s some valid criticisms in his post. It’s worth the read. Honestly you’re the one not bringing anything to the conversation. Read the post if you want to post about it, pretty sure that’s forum 101.