Titanforging could actually work now...

[Lurker1]

Titanforgeing is awesome they really need to extend it to weapons at one point in BFA.

[Xaredis]

For LFR or even normal to titanforge that far, it would require some amazing RNG. Like better than rare mount luck. I don't see the problem with it, as I've said in another thread the old style loot made it too easy to see "Yeah my weapon is BiS, no need to hunt for a better one". I have never experienced that in Legion whatsoever.

Yea we've traded the burden of temporarily reaching a finish line before its extended (the next tier) for the joy of Never having a completed character. Yay!!! And btw in legion they rolled out more content at a faster rate than they ever have before so even if you did reach BiS within the time between 77 days per patch and 140 per raid maybe it wouldn't have been more than a month before you the finish line was extended for you.

Actually only people who could even reach bis are mythic raiders or players who played an absurd amount of hours both groups a majority of the time want this system changed in some form.

[Ange]

Mmorpg are competitive games. People wants to be better than others. That is why they are pytting so much efford in it. And casual player who dont even bother in stepping on high end content shoukd be never be able to get close to their power lvl.

The most amusing part about this whole discussion is, that it is telling us the truth about the fun of doing harder difficultys. If there is no longtime benefit - a huge and unattainable gear advantage - the participation drops, because most people know how little bragging rights are worth in this casual game.

Where is now the difference again between a LFR player getting "free loot" and a mythic player demanding for long term unattainable gear advantage for playing a TIME BASED MMO for a very short time???

IMHO raiding anything higher than LFR/NORMAL should only get you a rating just like r.io for M+ with minimal gearprogression benefits. That would get you true competition and all those crybaby mythic raiders demanding gear advantage for minimal time investment would disappear just as weekly m+ players disappear in the r.io ranking lists.

[God Save The King]

Just limit (4HEad) warforged and titanforged items to +5 and +10 ilvl and problem mostly solved.

Due to the exponential nature of the TF system, it is more or less capped at 10 already. It's not really feasible to farm 385s doing something like +10 keys. You'll get a +15 rarely (about once every 50 dungeons).

[Deleted]

you're missing the point.

OP is suggesting that the people who get loot first, would be the one to keep getting the loot (since it would keep upgrading and hence be untradable)
it would be literally rigged so that the people getting loot would be getting even more loot, and the people not getting loot would be getting less

that's not a good system.

You can see it like that, or as an incentive to keep raiding even after getting the base gear (as an example, a HC Uldir raider could stop once he gets a 370 trinket or push more kills for the titanforged version. Again, i have to repeat, the initial goal for the thunderforging system was to make killing the same boss again and again exciting. Someone at 360 ilvl doesn't really need an incentive to run HC Uldir, it's clearly that there are a lot of upgrades in there. It's the people helping the 360 guy kill the boss who could use a little incentive to get something even after getting all their items. The way i imagine it even getting a shit loot would make people feel good, because that's one less item that you need to loot to start proccing titanforged items in your future kills.

[shadowmouse]

Also I've mentioned how I care about loot a lot less than I used to is that a good thing, from your perspective? That a player who used to get a lot of satisfaction out of a system had to stop caring about a system (due to it being significantly altered) because it was now impossible to reach goals they used to be able to. And it was either this or quitting the game they've adored since middle school up to now college.

Let me ask, what do you do to have real accomplishments in your life instead of a gimmick in a game?

To answer your question as quoted, let me put on my other hat ... the one that says "Professor Bungee". Is it a good thing? Speaking as Professor Bungee, it certainly is. Middle school is in your past, adult life is creeping up on you and it is time for your goals to shift to address that. For Bungee the player of WoW, it neither pleases nor displeases me because it is up to you to make your choices. You do, however, remind me that there are people like you who are still defining their life by points on the timeline of school and as such may lack a certain amount of perspective. That's a bit sad for me.

[huth]

Nope, they'd still cry that people can get their gear from a WQ even if it is a 1 in a million chance.

Actually, it's mostly people who aren't raiding mythic and never will, that are complaining. It seems more important to these types that others never rise above them than that they temselves get lucky.

It's a poor way of thought that should be stomped out wherever it shows, as it just makes humanity worse as a whole by condemning all to mediocrity.

[Craaazyyy]

Actually, it's mostly people who aren't raiding mythic and never will, that are complaining. It seems more important to these types that others never rise above them than that they temselves get lucky.

It's a poor way of thought that should be stomped out wherever it shows, as it just makes humanity worse as a whole by condemning all to mediocrity.

i think you should actually stop by and watch some mythic streamers and maybe you'll find out how pretty much all of them hate TF and all the rng

[Ange]

i think you should actually stop by and watch some mythic streamers and maybe you'll find out how pretty much all of them hate TF and all the rng

10+ hours/day mythic raiders/streamers have maybe a "slightly different view" on things like this and a bounch of other problems they have to deal with too.

Not sure if you can keep an open mind with such amounts of time spend in a very specific game part and still judge changes for the whole game and for everyone playing this game.

Just a thought.

[qactuar]

Everything still has a base item level. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't mind my character getting stronger. The fast track for that is doing harder content that awards higher item level gear. if I pick up any WF/TF gear along the way that happens to be an upgrade, I'm confused as to why I should be upset about that.

The way I see it, WF/TF broadens the pool of relevant items. Sure, in theory the system now means that whatever item from any source that has the best secondaries is now your best, that doesn't change the facts that you need some pretty good luck to get something like a 330 WQ reward to TF all the way up to a point where it'd be able to replace something like a M10 or mythic Uldir item which come with 370/385 ilvl base. It's possible, sure, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen very often and again, why would it be a problem if it does? If you're one of the people actually hoping for a huge upgrade on something from a WQ for the purpose of like, BiS hunting, wouldn't you be pretty happy if it happened?

[Ange]

If you're one of the people actually hoping for a huge upgrade on something from a WQ for the purpose of like, BiS hunting, wouldn't you be pretty happy if it happened?

A fair question.

The gear gap and gear progression wall outside of high end raiding was never about happyness, it was about the free dominance in power levels - many times even in PVP. The LFR hate showcases this pretty well, it is like a mirror for any kind of raiding and nobody is happy about the reality check.

[ReD-EyeD]

tbat one drop for 1 person over a whole month

You only need one person for 100 to envy him for being lucky and feel like this game is unfair for them enough to quit. It's never about "just one player", it's not a single player game.

- - - Updated - - -

Due to the exponential nature of the TF system, it is more or less capped at 10 already. It's not really feasible to farm 385s doing something like +10 keys. You'll get a +15 rarely (about once every 50 dungeons).

Answered this issue above.

[Mardux]

I got a weapon 9 weeks ago that I havent replaced after 8 weeks of mythic uldir all it did was go up 10 ivls from base with a socket from 360 to 370 that was from a mythic 8 so how exactly 10 ilvls irrelevant is beyond me

That's cool. What you said is you got a weapon that you haven't replaced except for when you replaced it it with a better weapon.

Im also not sure if you specifically chose that gearslot since it is disproportionately effected by ilvl (via weapon dps) compared to every. other. fucking. piece. we. wear.

But since you wanted to use weapons for your example, here goes. I have a 375 weapon with a socket. There is a very good chance that im stuck with that weapon until next raid tier since even something with 10 more ilvl is a dps loss (both practical and simmed). It would have to be replaced with something thats 390 with a socket, or something 395 or higher.

So yeah, ilvl matters slightly more than in legion, but its still pretty irrelevant for most specs.

[Craaazyyy]

10+ hours/day mythic raiders/streamers have maybe a "slightly different view" on things like this and a bounch of other problems they have to deal with too.

Not sure if you can keep an open mind with such amounts of time spend in a very specific game part and still judge changes for the whole game and for everyone playing this game.

Just a thought.

nah they were saying this since they implemented it

and its not just TF that they have a problem with

[shaunika123]

You can see it like that, or as an incentive to keep raiding even after getting the base gear (as an example, a HC Uldir raider could stop once he gets a 370 trinket or push more kills for the titanforged version. Again, i have to repeat, the initial goal for the thunderforging system was to make killing the same boss again and again exciting. Someone at 360 ilvl doesn't really need an incentive to run HC Uldir, it's clearly that there are a lot of upgrades in there. It's the people helping the 360 guy kill the boss who could use a little incentive to get something even after getting all their items. The way i imagine it even getting a shit loot would make people feel good, because that's one less item that you need to loot to start proccing titanforged items in your future kills.

but it already works like that
you can still get TF procs on bosses you killed already

it just doesnt punish people who didnt.

[Xaredis]

Let me ask, what do you do to have real accomplishments in your life instead of a gimmick in a game?

To answer your question as quoted, let me put on my other hat ... the one that says "Professor Bungee". Is it a good thing? Speaking as Professor Bungee, it certainly is. Middle school is in your past, adult life is creeping up on you and it is time for your goals to shift to address that. For Bungee the player of WoW, it neither pleases nor displeases me because it is up to you to make your choices. You do, however, remind me that there are people like you who are still defining their life by points on the timeline of school and as such may lack a certain amount of perspective. That's a bit sad for me.

This game is an escape from real life I already mentioned how when given the choice between the two I had already decided I would rather just drop the game altogether then starting doing lfr and normal since that's all I had time for. Luckily for me this semester wasn't too bad so I could keep mythic raiding and enjoy the game despite the current situtation loot is in.

So it's a good thing because I have shifting priorities? Thats probably true but that answer basically says " the game getting worse for you is good cause you'll be more likely to spend time elsewhere" I don't think a corporations goal is to lower player interest so that they can have better lives.

[Deleted]

but it already works like that
you can still get TF procs on bosses you killed already

it just doesnt punish people who didnt.

Yeah but the whole point of this system when it was added was to give people who already cleared the place and had BiS gear a reason to do it. People who need the base gear don't need an incentive, they will get upgrades

[shadowmouse]

So it's a good thing because I have shifting priorities? Thats probably true but that answer basically says " the game getting worse for you is good cause you'll be more likely to spend time elsewhere" I don't think a corporations goal is to lower player interest so that they can have better lives.

"But that answer basically says ..."

No, it doesn't, read better and stop trying to force everything into your narrative. This is why I took the time to separate my opinions into my feeling as a university professor (one who has been playing since the game was released here) who has to field several students a year who get caught up in the game of their obsessions (whatever that game may be that year), and Bungee the player of WoW. The former has seen too many students fail to make the shift over the years, the latter has no reason to care either way because "it is up to you to make your choices". Unspoken in that last is "so stop trying to impose your view on how I play".

[Resheph]

If you are really so petty that you don't want other people to be lucky out of a sense of misplaced entitlement for your own "accomplishments" in an online game I think your problem is not just a system but a much larger one, in life as well.

[Lenarific]

Why getting +50 ilvls upgrade for people who doesn't deserve it is a bad thing? How it nullifies the sense of achievement and feeling of progression?

Nah, I'm done.

Who are you to determine what people deserve or don't deserve? BTW cool story bro and now Nah im done....