How much do you feel someone making over 1 Million dollars a year should be taxed?

[Shadowater]

Let's say teh 20k person finds another job. Let's say they all do. Who is left to do the 20k jobs, which often times are most crucial ones in a society?

Someone who doesn't have a job. And then there is a lack of people for a certain job they will increase the salary for that job to make it more appealing.

There will always be someone who can't climb higher and have to take the shitty jobs. That's just life.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I am an independent, I actually dislike both parties and think they are violent, corrupt and crooked. The facts bear me out.

Just as you claim he is "misunderstanding" the left- you are "misunderstanding" the right.

In my experience- people that vote "right" aren't concerned with most of the things you mentioned. That is just how they are characterized by the media to make them look bad.

They seem to be more concerned with people "gaming " the system. They don't mind taxes and social programs- they just mind that they are taken advantage of and our government does not seem to do much about it.

They are right about that. When I worked construction- people proudly bragged how they gamed the system and laughed about it. They even bragged about passing around a child and having that child claimed by multiple families for services because the child had no id and no way to be identified.

That's why people don't want to pay more taxes and why they resist more services- they don't want to work hard all day so there money can be taken by the government and given to shenannigans like that.

If the government could clean up its social systems and instill some confidence in the populace that these social service were not being "gamed" left and right- they would not meet so much resistance on it.

They run it like a $h!Tshow though....... Are you really surprised people don't want to contribute more to a $h!tshow? I would quastion there sanity if they did want to contribute to it.

That's not even talking about the corruption of the very politicians asking you for this money- that's even a whole other ball game.....

I think Jay-Z said it best (paraphrasing- don't remember the exact quote) "I would be happy to give more tax money to feed the poor if the government could prove to me it was actually going to feed the poor......" (well said).

Sorry dude you aren't going to get me with that bullshit fence sitting "I am in the center both parties suck, blame the media" bullshit.

The Media is a tool it's people that suck and are the problem, but you are correct about my gross generalization, but that was really more part of my point. As for the people who want the money to go where it supposed to, that isn't the just the right, the left feel the same way.

However my characterization of the right is pretty indicative of stereotypical extreme right always wanting someone else to pay for their shit and delusional about where things really come from, just as it's a stereotype of the left are nothing but a bunch of freeloaders who don't work and want everything free.

The the truth is everyone has to put in, and not everything who puts in does so all the same way, very much the same as those who take out. But there do need to be checks and balances and a management of where those funds go.

The real problem is neither the right or the left when it comes to campaigning want to tell their base shit they don't want to hear. Which nobody is going to get everything, and everyone has to give up something to get some things they want like.

A populace not dumb as a fucking rock and criminals = Money for Education

A populace that is healthy meaning you know infectious diseases are kept in check and we have a healthy workforce = Affordable Healthcare for Everyone.

Prudent Safety Nets for when people stumble, so that we have people working jobs they want and society needs, instead of everybody going to school for nursing, because of an aging populace that didn't want to make an investment into the future. Good luck getting your bed pan changed.

It's not charity, it's not a handout, it's just smart to take care of the shit people claim they care about, because that effects everyone in the end in the ways I mentioned.

[Tiwack]

equality isnt fair.

Neither is life. Fair is what we say it is, which is why flat sweeping statements don't help anyone but politicians looking to be elected.

[Torto]

The US is a consumer driven economy. When people save, they are not spending it on things like electronics. This leads to businesses suffering and needing to cut costs. We saw all of this in the after effects of the 2008 crash.

When rich people save, its in stuff like stocks and other wealth building activities that doesnt require spending.

No, not at all. When people save they are typically reducing house hold debt, which is good. Lower debt leads to more disposable income. The rich don't save, they invest. Whether it's shares, bonds, long term investment accounts it doesn't matter. The financial institutions take that cash and on sell it to businesses or home loans etc.

The only way money can become dead is if you were to put it in a shoe box and bury it in the back yard. The more people save the cheaper cash become to borrow, which is good for the economy.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The rich person is already paying his workers.

The rich will use the same police, firefighter and roads etc. But when it comes to doctors and such they go private when they can because it is better.

I'm swedish so I don't really know how it works in the U.S. But here in sweden they do leave the country.

Sweden have been increasing taxes and we can see that it is not working.

Well it is working in Sweden, the problem is it's not working everyone else, Sweden is one country, which is why some are bitching about how immigrants want to take refuge there.

It's not just because those that can pay are fucking Sweden over, it's because all the places that keep getting fucked elsewhere, are creating the misery everywhere else, if you have the rich moving out of Sweden it's only because they can afford to fuck someone elsewhere. The problem isn't that it DOES work in Sweden the problem it needs to be made to work everywhere else, so these vultures are forced to fucking starve to death, instead of trying to prop up bullshit people are lead to believe they need.

Bottom line is for the rest of the the economy to work people that have more resources than they need are going to need to give something up, just like those who have less. 7 Billion people doesn't lend much room to mismanage world economies.

[Crissi]

No, not at all. When people save they are typically reducing house hold debt, which is good. Lower debt leads to more disposable income. The rich don't save, they invest. Whether it's shares, bonds, long term investment accounts it doesn't matter. The financial institutions take that cash and on sell it to businesses or home loans etc.

The only way money can become dead is if you were to put it in a shoe box and bury it in the back yard. The more people save the cheaper cash become to borrow, which is good for the economy.

Reducing debt is good, but in a consumer driven economy if you're not spending on non super crucial things, the economy starts to hurt.

invest without spending is saving but with wealth growth. You can grow your wealth without helping the general economy, and the general economy is what matters.

Again, we are a consumer driven economy. If we're saving, we are hurting it because places like Best Buy or Macy's or toy stores arent going to be the recipient of your cash form rich saving.

[Gank Sinatra]

15% across all earning brackets

[Doctor Amadeus]

If you look back in the day in the US they were taxed 90%. That was during an economic boon, until the right railed against taxes until now even the poor people are begging to get fucked by corporate fat cats.

Well if you mean back in the day where corporations owned entire towns, and nearly printed their own money and employed their own security like police, yeah along with child laborers and slavery, Yeah things were pretty f'd up back then.

Sometimes one devil just wasn't as bad as another.

[Shadowater]

If every person making 20k got a better job, there'd be a lot of middle aged people bitching about how no one is working the register or helping them pick something out. It's also a pipe dream and you'd need to ignore reality if you think "just git a better jobs, oh em geeeze" is a solution to everything financial. Also, ex cons dont tend to get the middle class jobs since, ya know, people dont like to employ felons. Noww you've got felons without jobs or barely making it. Yeah, that's a plus...

The rich don't drive the economy nearly as much as the middle class. you go from 60 to 54k, and while they wont hurt as much as the 20k person, their spending will drop and that will have effects on the economy as a whole.

Whats the use of that 500k if the people who buy shit form him suddenly cant because they have to now prioritize and he's on the low end of the priority totem pole? Also, see Sear's CEO as an example of rich people not worth their paycheck.

If everyone with 20k jobs got better jobs then the jobless would be able to take the 20k jobs. Many young people need jobs and should be happy to get a 20k job.

The rich already help the middle class by creating jobs. Increase the taxes for the rich and they will fire people to make up for it.
And then there will be less people earning 60k who wont be able to buy anything.

And ofcourse there are rich people who are dicks and isn't worth their money, many of them are politicians. But that doesn't mean we should cripple good people who have a great idea. I sometimes think about how many good ideas have been lost or ruined because the person wasn't able to make it, or had to sell it to a rich asshole who ruined it.

[Doctor Amadeus]

If everyone with 20k jobs got better jobs then the jobless would be able to take the 20k jobs. Many young people need jobs and should be happy to get a 20k job.

The rich already help the middle class by creating jobs. Increase the taxes for the rich and they will fire people to make up for it.
And then there will be less people earning 60k who wont be able to buy anything.

And ofcourse there are rich people who are dicks and isn't worth their money, many of them are politicians. But that doesn't mean we should cripple good people who have a great idea. I sometimes think about how many good ideas have been lost or ruined because the person wasn't able to make it, or had to sell it to a rich asshole who ruined it.

No, the rich don't help the middle class by creating jobs. I hire a plumber it's not because I give a shit he has a job, I hire a Plumber because I need work done on my house.

The rich creating jobs is a by product of them seeking to become even more rich, and allowing them do that for free while taking more money and not paying anything in is bullshit.

[Shakari]

If everyone with 20k jobs got better jobs then the jobless would be able to take the 20k jobs. Many young people need jobs and should be happy to get a 20k job.

The rich already help the middle class by creating jobs. Increase the taxes for the rich and they will fire people to make up for it.
And then there will be less people earning 60k who wont be able to buy anything.

And ofcourse there are rich people who are dicks and isn't worth their money, many of them are politicians. But that doesn't mean we should cripple good people who have a great idea. I sometimes think about how many good ideas have been lost or ruined because the person wasn't able to make it, or had to sell it to a rich asshole who ruined it.

Its a sad fallacy that the rich create jobs.... its been proven for the last 40 years or so they don't... the rich get richer and everyone else gets poorer.

The US is an extreme example of this, and its getting worse.

[Alydael]

Sorry dude you aren't going to get me with that bullshit fence sitting "I am in the center both parties suck, blame the media" bullshit.

The Media is a tool it's people that suck and are the problem, but you are correct about my gross generalization, but that was really more part of my point. As for the people who want the money to go where it supposed to, that isn't the just the right, the left feel the same way.

However my characterization of the right is pretty indicative of stereotypical extreme right always wanting someone else to pay for their shit and delusional about where things really come from, just as it's a stereotype of the left are nothing but a bunch of freeloaders who don't work and want everything free.

The the truth is everyone has to put in, and not everything who puts in does so all the same way, very much the same as those who take out. But there do need to be checks and balances and a management of where those funds go.

The real problem is neither the right or the left when it comes to campaigning want to tell their base shit they don't want to hear. Which nobody is going to get everything, and everyone has to give up something to get some things they want like.

A populace not dumb as a fucking rock and criminals = Money for Education

A populace that is healthy meaning you know infectious diseases are kept in check and we have a healthy workforce = Affordable Healthcare for Everyone.

Prudent Safety Nets for when people stumble, so that we have people working jobs they want and society needs, instead of everybody going to school for nursing, because of an aging populace that didn't want to make an investment into the future. Good luck getting your bed pan changed.

It's not charity, it's not a handout, it's just smart to take care of the shit people claim they care about, because that effects everyone in the end in the ways I mentioned.

Being independent is not bs. It is just as credible and legit as being a Dem or Pub. In fact- it is more credible. It means I approach each issue independently, with an open mind- seeking the best solution to the problem. I don't approach it with some pre-set dogma that the Dems or Pubs pumped out with their talking points. That's the BS, my friend. That is the BS that is ruining this country and I won't take part in it- sorry.

I have no problem paying taxes- because I don't want to live in a $h!thole, which is what we would have if the government really goes broke. I just feel that corruption in the social services in this country is a very legitimate concern.

People shouldn't be mocked because they want some accountability on what the government is doing with the money it takes from them.

You should not be mocked because you question that a government that is corrupt as all hell (on both sides- you know it) wants more money from you.

I would question your sanity if you didn't question these people. America was founded on questioning the government- it is what led to our independence. To just willingly submit to these parties- and to not even question there corruption (or better yet- mock people that do)- goes against the core values of this nation.

[Torto]

Reducing debt is good, but in a consumer driven economy if you're not spending on non super crucial things, the economy starts to hurt.

invest without spending is saving but with wealth growth. You can grow your wealth without helping the general economy, and the general economy is what matters.

Again, we are a consumer driven economy. If we're saving, we are hurting it because places like Best Buy or Macy's or toy stores arent going to be the recipient of your cash form rich saving.

Agreed, we are a consumer driven economy but not in isolation. Western economies also rely on investment and business confidence. People spend more when they are confident they are not going to lose their family home and their job is secure. Higher debt and higher interest rates do more to hurt toy stores than people wanting to pay off their credit card.

[Lycanthat]

Pass a law that says you're not allowed to make more than 30x your lowest paid employee (i.e. the janitor or something)
That way you can prevent these people from having obscene amount of wealth in the first place (unless they want to pay their janitors 500k a year)

*edit: or contractors, temp workers, etc. no sneaky loopholes you naughty CEOs!

[Jotaux]

Its a sad fallacy that the rich create jobs.... its been proven for the last 40 years or so they don't... the rich get richer and everyone else gets poorer.

The US is an extreme example of this, and its getting worse.

I always laugh when I see people talk about trickle down economics. Its never worked before, and they just expect it to start working now.

[Shadowater]

Well it is working in Sweden, the problem is it's not working everyone else, Sweden is one country, which is why some are bitching about how immigrants want to take refuge there.

It's not just because those that can pay are fucking Sweden over, it's because all the places that keep getting fucked elsewhere, are creating the misery everywhere else, if you have the rich moving out of Sweden it's only because they can afford to fuck someone elsewhere. The problem isn't that it DOES work in Sweden the problem it needs to be made to work everywhere else, so these vultures are forced to fucking starve to death, instead of trying to prop up bullshit people are lead to believe they need.

Bottom line is for the rest of the the economy to work people that have more resources than they need are going to need to give something up, just like those who have less. 7 Billion people doesn't lend much room to mismanage world economies.

Well it isn't working in sweden...
Healthcare system is failing, education system is failing and so is the welfare system, high unemployment and the police isn't working properly.
In total we pay about 50% of our income in different kinds of taxes every year, if you have a high paying job you pay more than that.
They still can't make it work, people are only able to buy stuff by taking loans pretty much.

Sure immigrants probably play a significant role in why it is failing. But higher taxes doesn't solve it.

Also... are you a communist?

[Cruor]

600k net per million over 1 million I feel is fair

How the hell is that fair? Why even make the money if you lose 60%? So you are left with 400k, now you need to pay for your home, food, family (if you have one) and maybe, just MAYBE you want something NICE for earning a lot? like a S63 AMG or S8? but no.... Themius says all that money needs to go to the welfare bums, or for "Basic Income" (free money) so people can sit at home and be artists or philosophers Cough *play WoW* Cough.

So many left wing nuts in this thread.... 60%... honestly, what the hell is the point of making the million then? Just get an easy job in a lower tax bracket. Welfare should be greatly limited or eliminated, thus tax would be the 15-25% option. People could donate to charity if they wish but don't force it like we have now.

[Kapadons]

The lowest rate possible. The bottom 90% need to start paying their fair share. They use the most services and pay the least taxes.

[Shadowater]

No, the rich don't help the middle class by creating jobs. I hire a plumber it's not because I give a shit he has a job, I hire a Plumber because I need work done on my house.

The rich creating jobs is a by product of them seeking to become even more rich, and allowing them do that for free while taking more money and not paying anything in is bullshit.

So the rich is not helping the middle class by creating jobs because he creates the jobs because he need them to do a job?

And what do you mean allowing them to do that for free? They are paying the workers a salary for doing the job? Should the rich instead pay more taxes and no salary and the government pay the workers instead or what?
The money the worker is paying in tax is coming from the rich person who paid the workers salary.

Its a sad fallacy that the rich create jobs.... its been proven for the last 40 years or so they don't... the rich get richer and everyone else gets poorer.

The US is an extreme example of this, and its getting worse.

People who create companies and hire workers are actually creating jobs.
remove all the rich peoples money and check how many people will become unemployed.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Being independent is not bs. It is just as credible and legit as being a Dem or Pub. In fact- it is more credible. It means I approach each issue independently, with an open mind- seeking the best solution to the problem. I don't approach it with some pre-set dogma that the Dems or Pubs pumped out with their talking points. That's the BS, my friend. That is the BS that is ruining this country and I won't take part in it- sorry.

I have no problem paying taxes- because I don't want to live in a $h!thole, which is what we would have if the government really goes broke. I just feel that corruption in the social services in this country is a very legitimate concern.

People shouldn't be mocked because they want some accountability on what the government is doing with the money it takes from them.

You should not be mocked because you question that a government that is corrupt as all hell (on both sides- you know it) wants more money from you.

I would question your sanity if you didn't question these people. America was founded on questioning the government- it is what led to our independence. To just willingly submit to these parties- and to not even question there corruption (or better yet- mock people that do)- goes against the core values of this nation.

Nah being independent is just trendy now, kind of like telling people you don't have a TV, or don't use Facebook, it's typically a grab at attention, especially when it's followed by a scripts about the Media or some other sort of nonsense. Followed by "Woke" and "Shill" or "Sheep" etc.

The truth is you don't know what you are talking about, because the reality is you live in your own safe space in your head like everyone else spewing that I am an "Independent" thing. Seriously dude go get a tattoo you will regret later and get it out of your system.


Telling people you are in independent then prattling on some script, just blends you in with the other noise.

The government isn't my best friends, it isn't my worst enemy and the Media is just a Tool, yes it's used by some extremely greedy people, and I do think that's evil, that has nothing to do with stupid people who make choices, that we are all guilty of.

But seriously I am a Democrat, I am a Liberal and I never fucking once questioned that, because I didn't ever in my life decide to call myself anything without a real self reflection and process for doing that.


To say nothing is perfect is like pissing in the wind dude.


There is a difference between right and wrong, there is a difference between being tolerant of people who are different and being tolerant of people who choose to be narcissistic assholes. This is reality, not a fairytale.

You have to know who you are to know where you belong, and you have to know where things come from, to have any idea of what you have or where you are going.

We have the world we live in now in large part because of what was handed down, regardless to what anybody does, but what people choose, that is what is important.
Or they don't they just avoid shit, because it's not ALWAYS FUN!