8.1 Eye Beam Nerf

[Charge me Doctor]

Yes, definitely not warlock mage or rogue. Who all bring great damage and utility like stones/ports/lust/stealth skips. I've yet to see a mythic + group looking specifically for a Havoc but I see loads looking for mage/rogue/lock (and hunter I suppose as well).

Ports? really scrapping the bottom of the barrel here? Maybe include food in there as well? Sure people seek frost mage for their high M+ to-be-able-to-do-dungeon-like-you-used-to-in-legion-aka-pull-crapton-of-aggro-and-kite-because-frost-magi-are-able-to-permaslow-shit-for-50-65%

Warlocks or rogue damage is incomparable with DH damage in M+, literally any group that pushes decently high keys has one, and it's because how well their AoE works in M+

[valax]

if your ST is shit you re doing something wrong

also mage aoe was also nerfed

i don't mean shit in terms of number but in terms of actual single target capability , Demon bite and Chaos strike is not a strong single target , example : at the third boss of kings rest when you have to destroy the totems and the aforementioned abilites are all you can use , don't you feel they are very weak abilities? eye beam is when our damage spikes , if they want to reduce the sustained aoe Trial of Ruin is what they should take a closer look at , very strong "free +damage" talent .

The new trait that resets EB cd is indeed a buff that completely makes this nerf irrelevant , yet it's a wrong nerf and they already aknowledged it was hastly made .

[AnotherJaggens]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9548468#post-4

Seems the nerf is getting reverted for now.

I'd still very much like them to do something to EB (make it shorter, as example) and compensate to single target dps. Thankfully balancing DH is pretty easy.

[Synthium]

Ports? really scrapping the bottom of the barrel here? Maybe include food in there as well? Sure people seek frost mage for their high M+ to-be-able-to-do-dungeon-like-you-used-to-in-legion-aka-pull-crapton-of-aggro-and-kite-because-frost-magi-are-able-to-permaslow-shit-for-50-65%

Warlocks or rogue damage is incomparable with DH damage in M+, literally any group that pushes decently high keys has one, and it's because how well their AoE works in M+

I'd like to see your main, just for reference. Because I think you have absolutely no clue what you're saying.

Warlock can shorten certain dungeons by up to 5 minutes on high keys with his port, mages have the same burst AoE as DH, but better because their orb can be easily reset if there are more mobs (the mechanic DH had in Legion with legendary helm) and they are ranged which means that they are relatively safer than DH while doing so.

Why the fuck is Eye Beam such a pet peeve for noobs? I don't get it.

INFRACTION

[Deleted]

Ports? really scrapping the bottom of the barrel here? Maybe include food in there as well? Sure people seek frost mage for their high M+ to-be-able-to-do-dungeon-like-you-used-to-in-legion-aka-pull-crapton-of-aggro-and-kite-because-frost-magi-are-able-to-permaslow-shit-for-50-65%

Warlocks or rogue damage is incomparable with DH damage in M+, literally any group that pushes decently high keys has one, and it's because how well their AoE works in M+

Portal can help u miss very nasty trash

Also you haven't played with a good rogue if you believe that the dmg they do is incomparable to DH.. maybe terrible ones who cannot garrote more then one target

They also have shroud.. which again can skip nasty packs

Blood elf DH in particular has so many tools but so do a lot of melee classes enhance shaman.. Ret paladin.. Rogue (even more then DH) survival hunter also has a lot in its toolkit

Warrior and frost/uh dk could use a utility buff

[Deleted]

It took a whole fucking patch to nerf you.

Stop whining.



Rogues next ty.

INFRACTION

[Synthium]

Portal can help u miss very nasty trash

Also you haven't played with a good rogue if you believe that the dmg they do is incomparable to DH.. maybe terrible ones who cannot garrote more then one target

They also have shroud.. which again can skip nasty packs

Blood elf DH in particular has so many tools but so do a lot of melee classes enhance shaman.. Ret paladin.. Rogue (even more then DH) survival hunter also has a lot in its toolkit

Warrior and frost/uh dk could use a utility buff

I personally don't know why I bothered to reply to a scrub stuck in like 800-900 score doing 10s for weekly but something about them just makes me want to rage uncontrollably.

Completely agree with you. Assa rogue can do a lot more aoe than DH provided the fight is of suitable duration (check out Incarnated on twitch, they did 19 AD yesterday and pulled 2 packs of bird+saurids, DH was on top for like 15 sec) and lock aoe isn't as good but his ST is insane and his ports are well worth having it.

It took a whole fucking patch to nerf you.

Stop whining.



Rogues next ty.

Go back to LFR.

[Svisalith]

If this nerf goes live as it is this would roughly be a ~1.5% ST DPS loss and a ~2-4% AoE DPS loss (depending on the raid encounter).
The loss in M+ will most likely be a little north of 5% due to the fact that Eye Beam occupies a larger portion of our total damage there.

For a 15% nerf to EB to be a 5% overall damage loss, EB would have to make up at least 33.33% of your damage. It's not even close to that for my runs and has been well under half of that on many dungeon overalls, particularly on tyrannical.



Quick sims show ~1.2% DPS loss on 1 target sustained scaling up to ~2.1% DPS loss on 5 target sustained - eye beam just isn't a very big percentage of our overall damage any more when you account for the cooldown time.

Of course it's (up to*) a 15% nerf for the first 2 seconds of the fight when you've only cast eye beam which is presumably what is being targeted.

*That nerf only hits the base damage of eye beam so it doesn't affect the eye beam azerites, both of which add flat EB damage based on their ilvl. If you have any of these traits then EB damage will drop by less than 15% of what you see on your meter.

[aGit]

Pretty much this.. Havoc does not have the strongest single target damage so getting a little buff to single target would be nice if they going to nerf EB like that.

It's probably not supposed to have the strongest single target either with the amount of cleave and aoe a DH can dish out. That said, a DH single target is still way up there, there are a ton of specs with a lot worse both single and aoe.

A spec that parses 3rd out of all the mythic fights @90th percentile will probably not be getting buffs of any kind.

[Deleted]

Yes it was necessary.

[Charge me Doctor]

I'd like to see your main, just for reference. Because I think you have absolutely no clue what you're saying.

Warlock can shorten certain dungeons by up to 5 minutes on high keys with his port, mages have the same burst AoE as DH, but better because their orb can be easily reset if there are more mobs (the mechanic DH had in Legion with legendary helm) and they are ranged which means that they are relatively safer than DH while doing so.

Why the fuck is Eye Beam such a pet peeve for noobs? I don't get it.

I was referring to mage portals actually, but whatever. I'm not used to gate being called portal.

I don't get it either, probably it's both AoE and ST ability on short CD that has incredible synergy in M+ to the point of it being a #1 damage ability, on a spec that is basically mandatory for high keys? Nerfing this outstanding ability to reduce havocs effectiveness in M+ would be, you know, sensible solution, since it doesn't hurt ST that much. I wish rogues would get same treatment to be honest, but that's a start i guess

[Torrasque]

Yes, their AoE burst is very high, stupidly high in some cases. This result makes sense.

[Charge me Doctor]

Portal can help u miss very nasty trash

Also you haven't played with a good rogue if you believe that the dmg they do is incomparable to DH.. maybe terrible ones who cannot garrote more then one target

They also have shroud.. which again can skip nasty packs

Blood elf DH in particular has so many tools but so do a lot of melee classes enhance shaman.. Ret paladin.. Rogue (even more then DH) survival hunter also has a lot in its toolkit

Warrior and frost/uh dk could use a utility buff

Yeah, i get it now that it weren't portals but warlocks gate.

Maybe, most likely yes, i haven't seen a lot of rogues recently, but even DH we play with thinks that eye beam is way out of control in M+, he has it available almost every pack.
Eye beam is just too good of a damaging ability for both ST and AoE to deal that much damage in both ST and AoE, it also pops you a meta for 8 seconds afterwads, and being able to have 35% uptime on meta on average is quite ridiculous in my personal opinion, but apparently its just how class works. If you pay attention, two most damaging abilities are eye beam and death sweep. Out of all possible solutions to nerf Havocs performance in M+ nerfing damage of eye beam is the most sensible one.

I do understand how utility abilities work, but by not taking a DH you skip on too much - it's both damage and (group)survivability, compared to specs that provide less damage and less important utility

[Synthium]

I was referring to mage portals actually, but whatever. I'm not used to gate being called portal.

I don't get it either, probably it's both AoE and ST ability on short CD that has incredible synergy in M+ to the point of it being a #1 damage ability, on a spec that is basically mandatory for high keys? Nerfing this outstanding ability to reduce havocs effectiveness in M+ would be, you know, sensible solution, since it doesn't hurt ST that much. I wish rogues would get same treatment to be honest, but that's a start i guess

Mage portals? In keys?

[Charge me Doctor]

Mage portals? In keys?

Yes, that's why i comment about portals counting as utility not making sense, you know, because warlocks have no portals, they have a gateway.

[Synthium]

Yes, that's why i comment about portals counting as utility not making sense, you know, because warlocks have no portals, they have a gateway.

If I tell you "warlock portals" you ought to know what I mean because not everyone knows that ability is called Demonic Gateway. I know the name yet I still call it "portals" cause that's how everyone is calling it so it's easier and catchier. You're just discussing for the sake of discussing to be honest.

[Loeve]

DH is middle tier so I think they should be focusing on other classes

AOE is the only thing a demon hunter is good at

[Charge me Doctor]

If I tell you "warlock portals" you ought to know what I mean because not everyone knows that ability is called Demonic Gateway. I know the name yet I still call it "portals" cause that's how everyone is calling it so it's easier and catchier. You're just discussing for the sake of discussing to be honest.

Yeah, context matters, that's why if you read the post i was replying to you would understand what i mean. When a person lobs warlocks and magi in one group, then says "ports" it isn't clear what he is talking about exactly.
I've never heard a gate being called a portal tho. Like, ever. Until this very day. Maybe it makes sense to start calling warriors leap a charge? Or a blink? Since most pug warriors think that leap is a blink anyways and that crossing fire with it is fine?


And yeah, you've made it clear that you are not fond of reading and not knowing how ability is called, even tho you don't need to play a warlock and it says "demonic gateway" when you hover over this shit. And i must note that it's you who started insulting me and brought it up for discussion, you know, that gate is a portal and such

[Synthium]

Yeah, context matters, that's why if you read the post i was replying to you would understand what i mean. When a person lobs warlocks and magi in one group, then says "ports" it isn't clear what he is talking about exactly.
I've never heard a gate being called a portal tho. Like, ever. Until this very day. Maybe it makes sense to start calling warriors leap a charge? Or a blink? Since most pug warriors think that leap is a blink anyways and that crossing fire with it is fine?


And yeah, you've made it clear that you are not fond of reading and not knowing how ability is called, even tho you don't need to play a warlock and it says "demonic gateway" when you hover over this shit. And i must note that it's you who started insulting me and brought it up for discussion, you know, that gate is a portal and such

Yeah I'm sorry your feelings are now hurt, this is called a heated response to an ignorant post like yours was. The fact that you didn't know what we were referring to when talking about "portals" and why warlocks/mages were good in M+ you might have added 2 and 2 together and realized that Portal to Orgrimmar doesn't make an instance easier, but Demonic Gateway does so that must be it then.

[Deleted]

Sometimes it really feels like Blizzard decides what to nerf based on opinion of people that just have seen X spec doing some insane dmg for 2 sec, then going on forum "nerf X because it's broken op !!!1111!!oneoneone". Plain Eye beam nerf would be just dumb because its a core skill for ST rotation. Ofc people like "nerf this" don't give a s##t if another spec becomes useless. I'm glad that for now they decided to "collect more data" before nerfs.