[M+] what do you think should change for a better?

[swatsonqt]

If i remember correct our best guys for player feedback is to post stuff and hope some blizz staff sees it. So i'd like to know what do you think should change to make M+ better? This shouldn't be a discussion, it should be a listing. If many people list the same, we get a winner for the category

I'll start with my opinion starting with points i see as "maybe something in that direction could happen" leading to "ok no i only want to complain a little...not very likely to see such things but a man can dream"

1) Pugging is super frustrating for several reasons. Change it so that only a specific ilvl range can queue up for a specific keystone lvl. For example: You have ilvl of 360 -> drops in m+7. So 355 - 365 should be able to queue up for +7 keys no one else. Why? That's the lvl of content where the applicant should progress. If the community won't give him a chance how should he improve?

2) Remove Raider.io. Why? if you don't have time on resetday to do your keys your effort is put to waste because you can't improve your score -> less chance of doing appropriate content -> less chance of finding friends -> less chance of players improving themselves. 1) has to work for rio to disappear

3) Let me List my Runs explicitly as learning runs. Give veterans goodies for teaching "bads" in these runs. Why not give me Transmogs for this?

4) Cut down class abilities. This one may sound absurd in the first place i know Everyone has a kick, a stun, a snare, a selfheal. First of all there is missing flavor to the classes. More important: the average player can't handle all these spells and won't learn how to utilize all these. Why can everybody learn how to play a moba in 12 seconds? there are only 4 or 5 spells. This would also open up room to give back more iconic spells. Nice example: Ring of piece. Very nice spell, super iconic for the monk. 8 sec dmg reduction for the tank. spell cast interrupt. fantastic ability. Why does the Monk need Leg sweep aswell? because everybody else has it and without he wouldn't be viable.

5) Make Trash what it is: trash. haven 6 nameplates flowing next to each other with multiple spells to interrupt is not fun it's overwhelming. Look at the community: the average playerbase has gotten so bad that they can't handle kicks or stuns or target swaps. Adapt to it. If a group stuns right oder kicks right: give them a dmg increase so that they can finish a dungeon faster. Likewise let the average player succeed if puts enough time into it. you don't kick or stun: then it will take longer for you. Don't let the trash packs be the real boss encounters...that sucks.

6) Make dungeons more "dungeon" like. i remember when some mobs in (forgot the name) throw sigils or traps or something on the ground and you could kite them into thier own traps for massive + dmg. That was cool and should come back.

7) Mini games are fun. Give me Tortollan mini games to unlock quick paths in dungeons or something like that...a dungeon once was an adventure, i'd like that back. Tol dagor for example is awesome The canonons? well made blizz

8) If some di**he** leaves the dungeon: give me the option to drop the timer and invite someone else to finish it so that my time is not 100% wasted for one idiot. Maybe don't count these dungeons for the chest but i can't stand building a grp for 1 hour only to have the first person leave after 1 wipe and ruin everybodys run

9) Healing is a minigame of 5 Bars in the middle of my screen. Change something about it.

10) Give me some currency for m+ runs with which i can do something in the worst case scenario of looting. For example: I mainly pug. there are weeks where i do 7 dungeon runs and i get nothing. I don't want very good gear for these cases but it would be nice to upgrade my 340 weapon for a 355.

[SL1200]

Make Mythic and Mythic+ Queable.

[andrewjoy]

Quakes to fuck off when out of combat !

[swatsonqt]

Quakes to fuck off when out of combat !

that's a good one, i support that

keep listing guys, maybe something gets seen by blizz

[andrewjoy]

that's a good one, i support that

keep listing guys, maybe something gets seen by blizz

or at the very least have them not break eating/drinking.

[Archon14]

This week has been annoying as a healer. I can heal the damage, the damage is not the problem, the interruption outside of combat is. Can't drink or resurrect or heal people without getting interrupted. And if I use mass res, everyone has to wait for another quake so they doesn't die when they respawn, and when they do, I could heal them up but then I won't have time to get the food buff because another quake is coming... And I can never drink immediately after a pack because I have to wait for bursting to finish, so that's extra 3 seconds everytime before I can drink.

And the combination eats the mana like crazy. I thought the explosive week was going to be tough, but you could avoid most of the damage. This time, you could avoid burst damage and interrupts, but most of that is still unavoidable damage that you will have to heal regardless...

Again, not the problem with wiping due to burst damage, but constant loss of mana due to unavoidable damage. Maybe separate bursting and quaking or have the quakes interrupt the casts but not the eating.

[Aktec]

nerf explosive hp, its already annoying enough dont make it take multiple gcds to deal with

[Uniqed]

Introduce a 6 or maybe 12 hour cooldown to mythic+s if you leave the group before the timer is on 0.

Just had my Atal´Dazar +10 key depleted because a DPS decided to leave after the healer accidentally ninjapulled a pack. We were on pace to still +2 it, despite the wipe, yet he left and made us all waste our time and a very popular key (had like 150 DPS signed up).

[Craaazyyy]

the fuck you're talking about?

your 2nd, 4th and 5th points are literally dumb

[swatsonqt]

the fuck you're talking about?

your 2nd, 4th and 5th points are literally dumb

You clearly didn't understand that for i explain it again:

It's not about discussion. Say what you want changed or leave it please.

- - - Updated - - -

Introduce a 6 or maybe 12 hour cooldown to mythic+s if you leave the group before the timer is on 0.

Just had my Atal´Dazar +10 key depleted because a DPS decided to leave after the healer accidentally ninjapulled a pack. We were on pace to still +2 it, despite the wipe, yet he left and made us all waste our time and a very popular key (had like 150 DPS signed up).

that's annoying as hell i can relate!

I would like to see a reporting function added or a "give up on stone" mechanic for the leader in case the group decides to quit the run.

[Craaazyyy]

You clearly didn't understand that for i explain it again:

It's not about discussion. Say what you want changed or leave it please.

obviously fucking remove everything you just typed pretty much


M+ in general is okay, i'd say that M+ should be harder, aka if you didnt cc packs you fucking almost insta die..

i think M+ gear should be harder to obtain.. but thats also a problem about whole game

i wouldnt say that there are problems withing M+ system outside of not being able to switch gear, it being a run against timer and it being just too straightforward until its like 15+ key that really doesnt give much extra shit outside of it being a high key

there are more problems with the game in general that affect M+ tho

[Great Destiny Man]

If i remember correct our best guys for player feedback is to post stuff and hope some blizz staff sees it.

Blizzard doesn't read MMO-Champion forums. If you want them to read feedback you need to post on the official forums

So i'd like to know what do you think should change to make M+ better? This shouldn't be a discussion, it should be a listing. If many people list the same, we get a winner for the category

That's not how forums work, if you don't want discussion make a blog. The very nature of forums is to discuss topics.

I disagree with the majority of your points as it's following a trend of dumbing down content, or adding unnecessary features to the M+ system.

From my own Point of View, there's a lot of affixes that aren't syncing well with specific types of dungeons and they need addressing big time. Biggest example I can think off is Shrine of the Storm Bolstering where blobs die in a heartbeat but still grant their own stacks, not to mention the mini boss adds that have their own pack of normal mobs around them.

[SinR]

Ban raider.io

[Irian]

1. less goddamn trash and less mechanically intensive trash as a whole. The mount of trash in a lot of these dungeons should be what it looks like on teeming week, not default. It's a big reason I can't be bothered to do M+ this expansion, because I realize I could be doing something I actually enjoy rather than slogging through piles of mechanically obnoxious trash mobs.

2. Stop making affixes that don't play well with dungeons, or maybe make every affix have a positive effect as well as a negative.

3. Scrap the idea of infinitely repeatable content and put some kind of diminishing returns or restrictions on it, and give us a more deterministic way to approach them. Infinitely repeatable content will inevitably widen the gap between the average player and the "hardcore" further than it needs to be.
Lockouts have been a thing since the dawn of WoW. There's a reason for that.

[glowpipe]

If you failed the timer and are above say 80% progress. Let you kill the last boss and finish the run.

[Saverem]

I think the affixes should be exciting and challenging and not frustrating and unfun.

Unfun affixes like Explosive/Quaking/Bolstering should be reworked.

Bursting should be made so the ticks doesn't interrupt drinking/mounting up.

Explosive should be worked into something like if you destroy them, they explode damaging the enemies.

Bolstering and Quaking should just straight up be removed, they are ANNOYING and UNFUN ways to run a dungeon.

[Mardy120]

1) less crying noobs who are progressing below +10 keys who want the game to give them more handholding, get the fuck out with that, all multiplayer games are swarmed with that, so its refreshing to have less of that in mythic+. Just learn to be less toxic/ ragey and focus on your own game.
2) some assistance from blizzard regarding lower end runs not being recorded, making it hard for entry lvl people to step in. Score similar to R.io in game would help, but which would also promote doing lesser keys in ultrafast manner, similarly to +13 on blizzcon.
3) better class balance. having a meta with 3 healers is fine, but 4.5 dps specs and 1 tank meta is not fine.
4) having people understand that nonmeta classes are not as terrible as they think. You can do up to +16 with guardian druids, shadowpriests and so on for sure.
5) greatly reduce dps potion crafting cost. If i want to go full tryhard and doublepot on every pull including trash, i would be paying about 20k per run just for potions.
6) greatly reduce sugar-crusted fish feast crafting cost. see 5.

Other than that, m+ is probably the only thing i enjoy in this game nowadays, so its in alright spot for me

[Prime92]

1) Pugging is super frustrating for several reasons. Change it so that only a specific ilvl range can queue up for a specific keystone lvl. For example: You have ilvl of 360 -> drops in m+7. So 355 - 365 should be able to queue up for +7 keys no one else. Why? That's the lvl of content where the applicant should progress. If the community won't give him a chance how should he improve?

Not gonna happen. I can run a +10 with 360 ilvl and time it, while majority cant time it with 375 ilvl. I want to boost a friend on an alt but hold on, I can't queue when I need some 5th person for it, kind of sucks.

2) Remove Raider.io. Why? if you don't have time on resetday to do your keys your effort is put to waste because you can't improve your score -> less chance of doing appropriate content -> less chance of finding friends -> less chance of players improving themselves. 1) has to work for rio to disappear

Rio is the best thing about M+ and if anything blizz should implement their own system that would work pretty much the same but be available to evryone, count every run and be impossible to hide. If you can't find groups, join a guild, show them you know how to play on first dungeon and follow the path to glory (or m+ communities).

3) Let me List my Runs explicitly as learning runs. Give veterans goodies for teaching "bads" in these runs. Why not give me Transmogs for this?

It'd be highly abusable.

4) Cut down class abilities. This one may sound absurd in the first place i know Everyone has a kick, a stun, a snare, a selfheal. First of all there is missing flavor to the classes. More important: the average player can't handle all these spells and won't learn how to utilize all these. Why can everybody learn how to play a moba in 12 seconds? there are only 4 or 5 spells. This would also open up room to give back more iconic spells. Nice example: Ring of piece. Very nice spell, super iconic for the monk. 8 sec dmg reduction for the tank. spell cast interrupt. fantastic ability. Why does the Monk need Leg sweep aswell? because everybody else has it and without he wouldn't be viable.

Most specs rely on literaly 5 spells/attacks including CDs and more importantly there's a theme in BfA that every other spec does basically passive dmg. Arms - 25% passive bleed, frost mage - 30% frozen orb, boomkin - 40%+ 2 long dots, etc. If anything blizz should bring proving grounds and improve the fuck out of them, cause they're a joke right now. People should go through their abilities, test them, fail untill they learn how to use them before they can join anything above heroic dungeons.

5) Make Trash what it is: trash. haven 6 nameplates flowing next to each other with multiple spells to interrupt is not fun it's overwhelming. Look at the community: the average playerbase has gotten so bad that they can't handle kicks or stuns or target swaps. Adapt to it. If a group stuns right oder kicks right: give them a dmg increase so that they can finish a dungeon faster. Likewise let the average player succeed if puts enough time into it. you don't kick or stun: then it will take longer for you. Don't let the trash packs be the real boss encounters...that sucks.

So they're supposed to dumb down everything in this fucking game? Seriously, have some respect for people. It's not a farmeville (not yet), there's content for everyone. You suck - you do m+5 and stick around 360 ilvl, you know how to interrupt - you do harder stuff and get rewards. Everyone sucked at the game at some point, some people took the fucking 40 minutes to learn how their characters work and improve over time, others are damn vegetables who supposedly don't have time to learn how to play yet they spend countless hours queing for low level content, wiping over and over again and then shitposting on forums about the game being too hard.

7) Mini games are fun. Give me Tortollan mini games to unlock quick paths in dungeons or something like that...a dungeon once was an adventure, i'd like that back. Tol dagor for example is awesome The canonons? well made blizz

Yeah, i wonder how would that turn out. I can only imagine the shitstorm on week 1 when people fail to figure out how mirrors work like in VotW. Blizz won't do it in any case. Mind that some people in Legion had no idea how those little buffs in CoS worked even a year into expansion having multiple +15s done.

8) If some di**he** leaves the dungeon: give me the option to drop the timer and invite someone else to finish it so that my time is not 100% wasted for one idiot. Maybe don't count these dungeons for the chest but i can't stand building a grp for 1 hour only to have the first person leave after 1 wipe and ruin everybodys run

Highly abusable by boost groups. No-go.

10) Give me some currency for m+ runs with which i can do something in the worst case scenario of looting. For example: I mainly pug. there are weeks where i do 7 dungeon runs and i get nothing. I don't want very good gear for these cases but it would be nice to upgrade my 340 weapon for a 355.

Finaly something we can work with. Imo m+ could reward some currency, the question is how much, if it caps or not, what items can you buy with it, etc. Kind of a mess imo. Some groups could farm m+ over and over, dozens times a week and ger BiS slots within a week - blizz hates that clearly.If on the other hand it'd reward tiny amounts of currency people would have to farm this shit like artifact power, which sucks. Especially that Blizz love RNG I could only imagine you'd get a roll for a random item, get shit for doing like 15 times m+10 and pretty much quit doing it.

My personal feeling is that people should be pushed into an updated proving grounds version, where they would learn how to deal with most common mechanics, learn how to deal with interrupts, using their CC and basic rotation before they can enter any type of mythic content. It could reward the player with a variety of "ranks" based on how they performed. It should cover a wide range of tasks and "ranks" and be visible to anyone in queue for a grouped content. Making gearing easy creates a metric fucktone of players who only want more gear to outgear whatever they're trying to farm in order to outgear whatever they want to farm next. It sucks. Learning basics that let you do most of the ingame content (hc raids, mediocre m+ keys) is really not that hard. Problem is half the people have no idea what their skills do, what their rotation is and what trash mobs (let alone bosses) in instances do. There's a fuckload of guides and other resources readily available and people refuse to use them. For some stupid reason they prefer to waste their and other peoples time being shit at the game.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Blizzard doesn't read MMO-Champion forums. If you want them to read feedback you need to post on the official forums

.

It's silly to think Blizzard doesn't read comments here. A lot of people in Blizzard still play the game and frequent this site, and whenever the community makes noise it seems to have an affect. Sometimes.

Although I do agree with your point. Not the proper place for feedback if that's the point of the thread.

[Great Destiny Man]

It's silly to think Blizzard doesn't read comments here. A lot of people in Blizzard still play the game and frequent this site, and whenever the community makes noise it seems to have an affect. Sometimes.

There is no official blue presence here, unlike the actual WoW forums so no it's not "silly" at all. CMs actively seek out feedback on the official forums and relay that to the dev teams, there is no precedent to patrol MMO-C for comments as well.

When the community makes noise the same noise is made across all channels so it's hardly surprising that it gets noticed.