M+ increasingly toxic and elitest

[trapmaster]

you know i kinda wish they expand little more rewarding in weekly chest up to 3 loots chance instead 1, supposedly if u done 3 mythic+10 non timed or timed either that, u can be eligible to loot up to 3 random loots in weekly cache, but it probably won't happen cuz you know blizzard's logic to keep you subbed and mindless bash your head thru it.

[bullseyed]

raider io is necessary to seperate players with basic mechanics from players who never kicked in their whole life

in a game where every trashcan can achieve 370+ without trying you need something to indicate skill level otherwise m+ pugging will be dead on the spot

r.io does not show if you know how to interrupt or not.

Checking raid logs does though.

[ID811717]

Question on this, only slightly related, but thought it was interesting enough to ask-

I'm just back from not playing since Legion and hit 120 recently, so not going to be pushing mad keys any time soon, but how do the keystone levels translate to the equivalents from Legion (think 7.3 before the empowered artifacts etc)?

I'm just wondering as someone who was doing 21-23 back then, what would that translate to now? I'm guessing that's not top end like 17-20, but maybe more in the 13-16 range (with good gear?).

Just wondering where I should set my expectaitons.

In terms of M+ rankings, +25 and +26 keys during the Antorus tier (before artifact changes) roughly translates to +16 and +17 keys now. That's 5.3-5.7k score in Legion and 1.6k-1.8k score now. I thinkg +22 keys in Legion could be mapped to +13 or +14 keys now.

[Meiffert]

That can be done today, but doesn't seem to happen. Seems pretty easy to just perm-ban any account doing that. And the leader can just kick you for it.

That's even better, I will just kick you and you lose your weekly rewards.
Perma-ban for going AFK? What a briliant idea.

Disbanding =! leaving.

In what way?


I will try to explain again: M+ is not a queued content. There doesn't need to be any automatic policing from the game because you choose who you play with before the dungeon starts.

[bullseyed]

I'm 6/8 with AOTC and get declined on a 383 MW, with mostly all 85+ rankings. My io score is 690 because I only do 1 10 a week in a random pug with usually meh players, who on weeks like this are carried by me healing them. oddly enough, even my skill isn't good enough, because my 690 isn't 1000.

If you're a DH, guess what? You could easily get a 1k io, just because you're a meh player with 2 other good DPS and a PL that puts a meta group together, and you're a meta class that gets insta invites. judging based on ilvl wouldn't be that great, or accurate, you might not really know what you get. I used to armory people back then but...honestly raid io is bad for the overall health of Mythic Plus, it's just...good in other ways.

Correct, r.io measures group quality, not player quality.

Logs do a good job though.

[Daevied]

The question isn't so much "what rating do I need to break into 10s" it's moreso "what actions should I take to get the experience of 10s overall".

The best course of action is group up with people you know and trust. At least that way if things go pear shaped they won't (hopefully) abandon the run unless there's absolutely no chance of finishing the run. Also there's the chance to ask questions about efficient routes and more efficient ways of dealing with mechanics/affixes.

You could also host your own +10 key and mention in title/description that you aren't interested in doing it on time, just for weekly. You're more likely to attract people who don't have the experience though (reducing chances of getting through the whole thing) and it doesn't prevent people from joining the run and bailing halfway through.

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You're just full of strawmans today aren't you?

You have no intention to actually read and comprehend my comments so I'll have to bid you a good day sir

Its just that i feel no matter how much i prepare i wont get past the first filter of raider.io score, i barely have time to play with my friends since most of them quit or play on hours i usually cant and my guild is mostly a raider guild.

[bullseyed]

That's even better, I will just kick you and you lose your weekly rewards.
Perma-ban for going AFK? What a briliant idea.

Being kicked isn't leaving.

[Great Destiny Man]

Its just that i feel no matter how much i prepare i wont get past the first filter of raider.io score, i barely have time to play with my friends since most of them quit or play on hours i usually cant and my guild is mostly a raider guild.

In that case I could only suggest searching for Discords/Communities for groups of people in similar positions. The situation isn't unique but actively searching for people with similar mindsets at least helps towards getting groups that you're actually happy with.

As I say hosting your own key is an option but the risk is there so be prepared for the potential frustrations.

[ID811717]

Actually, no. If you wanted to make your comparison a bit more serious, you might say that the MDI elite could possibly time a +10 with 350 ilvl, which is very, very far from what the average player can do.

But (as you noted) I'm pretty sure even they wouldn't be able to handle some dps/healing checks in tyrannical (3rd boss in ToS comes to mind).

There are 781 timed runs at +10 or higher the first week M+ became available. That's when the ilvl base cap was 355. This goes well beyond the MDI elite. The elite timed three +15 keys with that gear.

[Deleted]

Because making your own group is difficult.

[LBStx]

AGAIN read before you post , in my first post i said that i am in guild , I only tried this yesterday to prove that all M+ or even M0 dungeons aren't that easy to get in as a plain new player with no M expieriance, no IO score but willing to learn.

Geuss you are one of the reasons why we can't get in M0, also poves the toxidity from alot ( NOT ALL ) M+ players

You're super, super, undergeared. Think most folks would prefer you break 350 or so without bothering them, since it's trivial to do so.

I have a toon that dinged 120 last weekend and is already 349.

I wouldn't take you either.

Did you try to start your own group anytime during those 2 hours? If you had you would have been able to start one pretty fast. Might help to remember that.

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Disbanding =! leaving.

Of course. You just right click your portrait as the leader of the group and click the "Disband" option.

Oh...wait...you can't....because it doesn't exist.

So...uh...people would have to leave. Which would incur a penalty.

Seems like you didn't really think that one through.

[Ponky]

Being kicked isn't leaving.

But how does that change anything then, if I don't want to participate in a run anymore I go afk, group kicks me, I am happy and I get no punishment?? So how does that help anything if you only get punished if you leave by yourself? That will just make people go afk or ninja pull stuff so you wipe 24/7 until someone else decides to leave first.

[Logwyn]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post50453160

u mad lad?

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People are assblasted about not facerolling dungeons for free loot: Solution> Make dungeons not facerollable at all. 1 + 1 = 11

This whole topic is only a issue if you want to push m+ that is above your skill level with completly strangers

There's a skill to knowing what to switch too....focus X....cc Y....kite z. Dispell w.. etc. etc.

[llewllew]

Maybe make friends?

[klepp0906]

anything online is now... toxic and elitist. Welcome to the world circa ~2005 onward. Where the entitled children who hide behind their anonymity came of age. Then the bell curve reared its ugly head and we began pushing ideas and ideals en masse that exacerbated the aforementioned.

Settle in for the long haul, cause its gonna be a few decades before things right themselves. If they dont, i imagine its gonna get hella-interesting. Fortunately, ill be much closer to making my exit by that time.

[Gorsameth]

There are 781 timed runs at +10 or higher the first week M+ became available. That's when the ilvl base cap was 355. This goes well beyond the MDI elite. The elite timed three +15 keys with that gear.

Yeah, and the people running +10 the first week were mostly raiders in organised groups. Not 'average' players at all.
Its really easy to not see just how utterly shit the 'average' wow player is.

Also 781 runs, times 5 (assuming all are unique players which will not be true) is 3905, divide by 20 (minimal size of a Mythic guild.) is ~195 guilds worth of people. So the top 200 guilds in the world ran Mythic +10 in the first week.
Hardly a standard applicable to your common pug group.

[Marrilaife]

Anyone who thinks those specs don't do good damage is bad.

Feral is one of the top single target DPS specs. Their "rotation" is aids and no one in their right mind would want to press that many keys... but the damage is great if you do it properly.

Show me a random m+ group that will be eager to take a feral then. Same with ret or enhance. Single target dps doesn't save the spec when specs like havoc have both single target and aoe. And when Blizzard nerfed eye beam a little, they immediately backtracked from it the next ptr build.

How the hell they can only care to balance single target dps leaving aoe capabilities widely different, when trash is majority of dungeon combat and m+ is an important part of endgame...

Btw I miss the times when they buffed brutal slash to the point it was actually amazing for trash clearing.

[Nnyco]

I wouldn't bother rio much, if people wouldn't act like elitists in perfectly doable low key content. My rogue has ilvl 342 and i don't get a single invite for +2.

342 is kinda low, you can get 350+ easily, so why invite someone who clearly slacks so much that you dont even have that instead of someone better geared

[Ragedaug]

Except it's no different than it was in Classic. Have you tried pugging as a moonkin in Classic or TBC? I did. Stopped pretty fast. The problem is complex and is rooted in human psychology. It's all about the perception of success/failure. Anyway, while it sucks to have all those issues, it is still objectively easier to overcome them than it was in the past as you still have access to so many players that eventually you can find some group that will work for you. And the sooner you are able to find a more less stable group of people to play with the better. World of pugs is a vile one and has always been. The only time when it was okeish was during Wrath where 5man content was hardly any challenge. Challenge + pugs = toxicity.

I didn't pug in classic, but I can tell you from Burning Crusade, the only time I could get in pugs as an Enhancement Shaman (after hours chat trying to get in) was when my Holy Pally buddy would log on and get groups to bring me along with him.

So yeah, nothing's changed. In BC it was "what's your Spell Power or Attack Power or Total Avoidance/Defense Rating". People always tries to boil it down to one metric so they don't have to do the math.

[bullseyed]

As a shadow priest I have 387ilvl, 8/8M, 1600Rio, world first dht30 in time in Legion. Rank 1 on warcraft logs.

Got declined from a +10 today, 'sry dont need a shadow'

But reddit said shadow is bad!

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I didn't pug in classic, but I can tell you from Burning Crusade, the only time I could get in pugs as an Enhancement Shaman (after hours chat trying to get in) was when my Holy Pally buddy would log on and get groups to bring me along with him.

So yeah, nothing's changed. In BC it was "what's your Spell Power or Attack Power or Total Avoidance/Defense Rating". People always tries to boil it down to one metric so they don't have to do the math.

Enh shaman was really good in TBC. Depending on the patch to some degree because of WF being bugged OP for a lot of TBC.

Most good raids had a 3 hunter + feral druid (tank back then) + enh shaman. This gave totems and lust to the hunters and 5% crit buff to all in that party. Every raid needed 4 or 5 shamans just for lust.

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Show me a random m+ group that will be eager to take a feral then. Same with ret or enhance. Single target dps doesn't save the spec when specs like havoc have both single target and aoe. And when Blizzard nerfed eye beam a little, they immediately backtracked from it the next ptr build.

How the hell they can only care to balance single target dps leaving aoe capabilities widely different, when trash is majority of dungeon combat and m+ is an important part of endgame...

Btw I miss the times when they buffed brutal slash to the point it was actually amazing for trash clearing.

Complete non-sequitur comment quoted above.

The average M+ group being dumb doesn't mean ferals aren't great dps.

Just like the two rogues I grouped with the other day as SV hunter who insisted SV was bad until I smoked them on the meters. And then switched to BM offspec and smoked them again.

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anything online is now... toxic and elitist. Welcome to the world circa ~2005 onward. Where the entitled children who hide behind their anonymity came of age. Then the bell curve reared its ugly head and we began pushing ideas and ideals en masse that exacerbated the aforementioned.

Settle in for the long haul, cause its gonna be a few decades before things right themselves. If they dont, i imagine its gonna get hella-interesting. Fortunately, ill be much closer to making my exit by that time.

Right. With the rise of identity politics we got the "everyone who disagrees with me is literally hitler" and the same applies to gaming.

"Everyone who I don't like is toxic and elitist. Especially if they point out the mistakes I made that wiped the group so I can learn to not make them again next time."

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Of course. You just right click your portrait as the leader of the group and click the "Disband" option.

Oh...wait...you can't....because it doesn't exist.

So...uh...people would have to leave. Which would incur a penalty.

Seems like you didn't really think that one through.

It would certainly be impossible to use the "vote to kick" or "ready check" code to create a vote to disband option. Certainly couldn't be done in a week by an intern.

Either way, hopefully the mods will look into the less than a month old obvious ban evasion account you're on.