What's wrong with giving players options?

[ManiaCCC]

I'm stuck with a single answer / question.

Why ask for vanilla if you actually don't want vanilla, but you want vanilla with rainbow sprinkles and sauces?

Seriously, this question has to die.


There are millions reasons why people want Vanilla back. Old talent trees, leveling as journey, professions, sense of community, not flying, huge world.. But it doesn't mean that people don't want to improve things, if it can be improved.

Retail is very different beast and what people loved about Vanilla may never return. However, Classic can still provide everything what people loved and still improve and make game more modern and secure.


So answer to this stupid question is same as always: Many people never asked for EXACT copy of Vanilla wow.

[Xecks]

i think people should have the option to automatically get all the tier loot that they want , and also have the option to turn into illidan on their screens only.

it doesnt affect anyone!!!one1

/s

[Deleted]

i think people should have the option to automatically get all the tier loot that they want , and also have the option to turn into illidan on their screens only.

it doesnt affect anyone!!!one1

/s

Getting loot automatically eliminates the motivation to do content at all, and turning into Illidan is just silly.

So terrible comparison.

[Jazzhands]

Seriously, this question has to die.


There are millions reasons why people want Vanilla back. Old talent trees, leveling as journey, professions, sense of community, not flying, huge world.. But it doesn't mean that people don't want to improve things, if it can be improved.

Retail is very different beast and what people loved about Vanilla may never return. However, Classic can still provide everything what people loved and still improve and make game more modern and secure.


So answer to this stupid question is same as always: Many people never asked for EXACT copy of Vanilla wow.

This project is for the people that did ask for an exact copy. We know we can't have 100% Vanilla, but we want it as close as possible. Blizzards own stated goal is an authentic Vanilla experience, the intended target is those who want that, not Vanilla+. Even if you just want better graphics, it's not authentic. A photoshopped picture is fake, and a change that goes against the main goal of a project is a bad change.

[Seranthor]

I have a problem with dishonest people such as you. You don't support vanilla in the slightest. Spending your days antagonizing vanilla supporters is the wrong kind of funny.

The kind of funny that you giggle at it and pity the comedian

Wait, you are telling me that I dont support Vanilla, when I've said that I do in fact support Vanilla? Is this some jedi mindtrick bullshit you are trying to pull on me?

[ManiaCCC]

This project is for the people that did ask for an exact copy. We know we can't have 100% Vanilla, but we want it as close as possible. Blizzards own stated goal is an authentic Vanilla experience, the intended target is those who want that, not Vanilla+. Even if you just want better graphics, it's not authentic. A photoshopped picture is fake.

Also this BS has to die.

- - - Updated - - -

Getting loot automatically eliminates the motivation to do content at all, and turning into Illidan is just silly.

So terrible comparison.

He wanted to look smart. He looks like an idiot instead.

[Deleted]

Just stop. If you don't want to play classic as classic was, then don't play it. If you start adding "options" it's no longer the classic game.

Can't wait to see all the Classic hard-core boils refuse to play on Wednesday (or Tuesday in US) because that's what it was like in Vanilla...

[Deleted]

Works as well as suggesting to players who hate flying, to not fly.

If they hate flying then why do they do it?

[Jazzhands]

Also this BS has to die.

- - - Updated - - -



He wanted to look smart. He looks like an idiot instead.

Why exactly are my claims BS? What's wrong about what I said? If you're gonna just say "nah you're wrong", then you're not helping anyone.

I have yet to receive a reasonable answer as to why my stance is false. Please, enlighten me, so far everyone has simply ignored it, but you clearly have well thought out reasons to call them bull shit, so share.

[Fendrith]

In short, it's a slippery slope and most players who want the old game back don't want to take any chances.

Personally I'm all for this. They have been screaming for this for years so let them have it. Whether it is a hit or a flop, for whatever reasons, they deserve the attempt to recapture the games vanilla experience.



It's not a valid argument to you maybe, but it is a valid argument to others.

Wikipedia logical fallacies, scroll down to where it says 'slippery slope.' I can't post links in here yet, apparently. A slippery slope is a conditional logical argument that hinges on your ability to link the steps in a reasonable fashion. If you click on slippery slope and scroll all the way down, you can see that there are, in fact, ways to use the argument non-fallaciously. The particular usage that I called out was not one of those non-fallacious usages.

No, it's not a valid argument as far as logic goes. That's not a 'to me' thing. What you've done is similar to saying eating trans-fats is unhealthy 'to you,' but it's healthy to others. That's just not how that works. More importantly, if you think it was a valid SSA despite me pointing out 'why' I think it's invalid, you should probably address the reasoning that I used to suggest it's invalid. Just saying 'no, this is what it is to you' isn't really how logic works. I'll accept that there's a subjectivity to logic that perhaps isn't presence in other fields, but there is still a degree of objectivity to it in terms of how valid logical arguments are crafted.

[ManiaCCC]

Why exactly are my claims BS? What's wrong about what I said? If you're gonna just say "nah you're wrong", then you're not helping anyone.

Because even on private servers, there were always heated debates about what changes to made and "shockingly", not a single private server was blizzlike nor they were trying to be... Even famous Nostalrius made several changes to core gameplay(sharding for example). There was never consensus, what would be great for real Vanilla server. The only thing what is sure, that people hate modern changes in later expansions and they want Vanilla WoW back in some shape or form.


What you said was just never true. This huge petition was signed by many different type of players, from purist to these, who want QoL Changes. Don't try to generalize Classic fans as purists.

Classic server is first and foremost business decision, according them, it will be fully supported live service like current WoW. It's not fan service to people like you.

[Jazzhands]

Because even on private servers, there were always heated debates about what changes to made and "shockingly", not a single private server was blizzlike nor they were trying to be... Even famous Nostalrius made several changes to core gameplay(sharding for example). There was never consensus, what would be great for real Vanilla server. The only thing what is sure, that people hate modern changes in later expansions and they want Vanilla WoW back in some shape or form.


What you said was just never true. This huge petition was signed by many different type of players, from purist to these, who want QoL Changes. Don't try to generalize Classic fans as purists.

Classic server is first and foremost business decision, according them, it will be fully supported live service like current WoW. It's not fan service to people like you.

When you want to make and sell a product, there's an intended audience the product is targeted at. Blizzards product in this case, is an authentic Vanilla experience, this is directly stated many times in places like the dev water cooler. The targeted audience, is people who want that. If you do not want an authentic experience, which means you are lobbying for changes that aren't in Vanilla, you do not want the actual product, and are not the targeted audience. This has nothing to do with who signed what petition.

Also, J Allan specifically said they don't care how popular the servers are, a page or two back I list it and the source. This is a passion project, for people who are actually passionate about getting an as close to authentic Vanilla experience as possible. Blizzard can and will make money money from this, so despite being a passion project, it's treated just like any other project from a business standpoint.

[ManiaCCC]

When you want to make and sell a product, there's an intended audience the product is targeted at. Blizzards product in this case, is an authentic Vanilla experience, this is directly stated many times in places like the dev water cooler.

I am sorry I am cutting rest of your post, but it's not important in this argument except this part.


Again, even during Q&A they said that authentic Vanilla experience doesn't mean no changes. Because they already did.

But believe what you want. Just don't be surprised if more changes will roll out.

[Jazzhands]

I am sorry I am cutting rest of your post, but it's not important in this argument except this part.


Again, even during Q&A they said that authentic Vanilla experience doesn't mean no changes. Because they already did.

But believe what you want. Just don't be surprised if more changes will roll out.

Are you not reading the parts where I'm saying that changes need to reflect the goal of it being authentic? I understand and know changes are going to happen but if the change results in more authenticity, that's a good thing. The no changes group is more like a group lobbying for as few changes as possible and to make sure the changes that go in make things more authentic not less. No changes doesn't quite capture the depth of why we don't want changes.

At this point, the question is "do these changes make the game more authentic". If yes, change is good, if not, change is bad. Blizzards stated goal is an Authentic Vanilla Experience, until you show me where they say otherwise, this is the goal, any change that doesn't so this is bad, and one that does the opposite is even worse. New graphics are changing an authentic experience into an non-authentic one, it does the opposite of what Blizzard wants to give us.

How is viewing a photoshopped picture the same as viewing the real, authentic thing? It's not. New, updated graphics make it less authentic, not more, which is counterintuitive.

You're also cutting off portions of my posts you aren't addressing. I've had to ask you the Photoshop question 2-3 times now and I've yet to get an answer, you always just seem to snip or ignore it. I also want to know how a change that does the opposite of the intended goal, for this example it's new graphics, is good for a project about trying to be as authentic as possible?

[Fendrith]

In short, it's a slippery slope and most players who want the old game back don't want to take any chances.

Personally I'm all for this. They have been screaming for this for years so let them have it. Whether it is a hit or a flop, for whatever reasons, they deserve the attempt to recapture the games vanilla experience.



It's not a valid argument to you maybe, but it is a valid argument to others.

So I can't post links in here yet, and I'm not sure why my other post didn't go through. Wikipedia logical fallacies and scroll down to slippery slope. When you click on that, read through it, and then scroll to the area where it says 'non-fallacious usage.' This isn't a 'to me' thing. It's how logical arguments work. A slippery slope can be used in a way that isn't logically fallacious, but this ain't it. I can expand on this further, if you'd like. But it's certainly not accurate to say that it's "valid to others, but not to me." Logic has a bit of subjectivity, but it's not completely freeform. You don't get to just decide what is and isn't reasonable in the moment based on how you feel.

[Skillslam]

lol you're funny hating on classic wow boards 24/7 fulfilling life

He's in London. it's either stay inside 24/7 and be miserable or go out and be culturally enriched all over the pavement.

[Alkizon]

I'm pretty sure that this is bait, but even not as an answer, only just to be noted here...

Using updated players models, including druid forms

One of last discussions on this topic happened here <1> <2> and ended like this (the lattest is here, a list of everything that happened before can be found here). Honestly, I don't really want to repeat this all and therefore I will refrain from further discussion (links have everything and even more than necessary). In short: you aren't asking for options with this, but for changing (gameplay) rules and promise violation; and what this really isn't: options/settings/cosmetics. Only possible option in this case is the one "through customization".

ps. You all knew this will coming I promise that this will be only one my thing here, "it" didn't earned more.

[Lochton]

Seriously, this question has to die.


There are millions reasons why people want Vanilla back. Old talent trees, leveling as journey, professions, sense of community, not flying, huge world.. But it doesn't mean that people don't want to improve things, if it can be improved.

Retail is very different beast and what people loved about Vanilla may never return. However, Classic can still provide everything what people loved and still improve and make game more modern and secure.


So answer to this stupid question is same as always: Many people never asked for EXACT copy of Vanilla wow.

But many people did ask for classic back. Classic, you know, the experience and translation of what it was. That is classic. We know you were treated dearly and that Blizzard is even gifting you a better start than classic by having sharding for the starting zones but honestly, if you ask for it, then why don't you want IT?

I mean, you could've just asked for a new franchise if you wish to change the core of the old anyways? As it feels, and should feel, Classic is going to be standalone, and it shouldn't have further developments than the sheer basics until - if they decide - it progresses.

By adding in some changes from future content just makes it sound like desperation from trying to flee from the fact that we are going forward, so you are adamant on staying behind with as much as you can have.

[Surreality]

I'll have to peek, afaik with autoloot on if you hold shift you just freeze the AOE loot window so you can pick out what you want, you aren't picking off one mob.

I think you might be right. It's been a long time and a lot of changes have been made.

[Bytesize]

I think creating a character is an important part of the experience, my mage looked like a drug lord with a black ponytail so much so that people on my realm recognized me because of it. So maybe take the time to create your toon instead. AOE looting would be nice, but also means dungeons are faster, AOE farming is more beneficial than it already is, leveling is faster etc etc. Changes like this affect the core experience too much. I don't wanna revert it on live, but for vanilla that's part of the experience imo. Models same thing.