Irish outcry over teenager's underwear used in rape trial

[Mixxy]

For those confused, because they aren't linking the entire closing argument, only the portion that helps fit their outrage;

I dunno man. Holding up the woman's panties and going "Just look at this. Look at what she was wearing. She obviously wanted it" is pretty fucking hard to misinterpret.

[Izalla]

Thongs are comfortable, lace is pretty. I doubt the girl just wears granny panties every day of the week except when she plans to have sex. This isn't evidence of anything.

[Spectral]

Oh sure, in this case it was used as evidence. It is permitted in Ireland. The contention is that it ought not to be, as it's evidence of nothing, unless of course there was dna, and even then the article says that some countries restrict how a jury may consider them (likely not as character evidence). My post to you was just pointing out that even if it's taken as police evidence, it would still have to be approved by the court to be entered as evidence for the trial, or so I understand it.

Whether it should be permissible or not is a reasonable question, but surely it's at least weak Bayesian evidence of the intent and mindset of the putative victim.

[Mixxy]

Whether it should be permissible or not is a reasonable question, but surely it's at least weak Bayesian evidence of the intent and mindset of the putative victim.

Even then it's ultimately irrelevant. How the girl felt while she was getting dressed has literally zero to do with whether or not she consented at the time.

[McFuu]

I dunno man. Holding up the woman's panties and going "Just look at this. Look at what she was wearing. She obviously wanted it" is pretty fucking hard to misinterpret.

We aren't even seeing the entire closing argument, or the trial transcripts, that portion is taken entirely out of context from everything that transpired in the trial.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Whether it should be permissible or not is a reasonable question, but surely it's at least weak Bayesian evidence of the intent and mindset of the putative victim.

See Izalla's post. Women wear sexy underwear when they aren't looking to have sex.

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It wasn't entered into evidence, not the "she was dressed this way so she was looking to hookup.". That wasn't evidence, her underwear may had been, but she is accusing someone of sexual assault / rape, that is the evidence.

I meant the underwear shouldn't be in evidence. The lawyer can't mention what she was wearing in her closing argument if it isn't entered into evidence.

[Spectral]

Even then it's ultimately irrelevant. How the girl felt while she was getting dressed has literally zero to do with whether or not she consented at the time.

See Izalla's post. Women wear sexy underwear when they aren't looking to have sex.

Are you both arguing that you wouldn't consider attire as even the slightest bit of evidence as to whether someone would have been likely to consent to a sexual encounter? I don't find it very compelling, but it can't just be a total zero. We have zero context here other than the outrage machine.

[McFuu]

See Izalla's post. Women wear sexy underwear when they aren't looking to have sex.

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I meant the underwear shouldn't be in evidence. The lawyer can't mention what she was wearing in her closing argument if it isn't entered into evidence.

So what kind of evidence is the plantiff or defendant supposed to bring forward? Clothes, underwear are usually the only lasting form of evidence (with or without DNA) in these types of cases. If you go to a hospital and claim you were raped, they keep everything you were wearing for evidence.

[Daedius]

Pretty sure we had a thread on this because I recall mentioning of what of some going woman commando...

[Seranthor]

Pretty sure we had a thread on this because I recall mentioning of what of some going woman commando...

We did have a thread about this very same thing... and its still open.

[Deleted]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...erwear-consent

Seems your more than a week late.

i posted in that thread, this is the outcome afterwards

[Izalla]

Are you both arguing that you wouldn't consider attire as even the slightest bit of evidence as to whether someone would have been likely to consent to a sexual encounter? I don't find it very compelling, but it can't just be a total zero. We have zero context here other than the outrage machine.

Yes I'm saying I don't consider it evidence of anything. I'll wear a lacy thong under sweat pants to go the grocery store. I don't care what I have under my pants as long as I'm comfy. I didn't have sex or men on my mind at all when i bought my underwear. I don't do casual sex and I didn't have a boyfriend at the time. I just like cute underwear. And thongs don't leave big obvious lines in your pants when you have anything tight like leggings on so bonus.