There are orcs who didn't follow Garrosh, but now follow Sylvanas

[Deleted]

It took a while for me to wrap my head around that.

Isn't that kinda weird?

Every orc who is now in the Horde refused to follow Garrosh. They at some point chose to stand against him. But there are orcs now willingly following Sylvanas. Like the orc in that cinematic.



So there are orcs who went:

"Nope, that brown orc, he's dropping manabombs on our enemies, that is going too far...
But this dead lady, now that's my kind of lady, she's throwing around weird green stuff, I love it."

I think that's weird.

[Nomads]

Yes, it's pretty odd Blizzard decided to go with the Horde having internal conflict AGAIN instead of doing it with the Alliance. Especially considering they could have done it easily with Jaina or pissed of Night Elves trying to seize power and commit genocide against the Horde races.

Some meeting of writers decided on this course though... they had to have some compelling reasons.

[Frankminimia]

You are watering it down a lot. Siege of Orgimmar wasnt straight after Theramore got bombed, there was more development than that. Segregation of races, assasination attempt on the troll leader, eventually taking an old gods power, things im likely forgetting as well. Following Sylvanas is not the same as following Garrosh.

[Dalheim]

And there's a slight difference here, many didn't approve of Garrosh ideals of Orc Supremacy, as that would be killing/enslaving their former allies (Trolls, Tauren, etc).

Sylvanas isn't doing that, however, and is simply doing everything ''For the Horde'', instead of <Insert race> Supremacy.

That's the only reason I can think of. They probably don't 100% approve of her methods though..

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You are watering it down a lot. Siege of Orgimmar wasnt straight after Theramore got bombed, there was more development than that. Segregation of races, assasination attempt on the troll leader, eventually taking an old gods power, things im likely forgetting as well. Following Sylvanas is not the same as following Garrosh.

You beat me by 1 minute while I was writing! You said it way better than me, though.

[Deleted]

You are watering it down a lot. Siege of Orgimmar wasnt straight after Theramore got bombed, there was more development than that. Segregation of races, assasination attempt on the troll leader, eventually taking an old gods power, things im likely forgetting as well. Following Sylvanas is not the same as following Garrosh.

Theramore was the point when a lot of people in the Horde realized they have to do something about Garrosh. They start having secret meetings in the book prior to the events at Theramore, cause Malkorok is going around assassinating people who aren't falling in line. Then the manabombing is the oh shit moment where a lot of people realize this is wrong.

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And there's a slight difference here, many didn't approve of Garrosh ideals of Orc Supremacy, as that would be killing/enslaving their former allies (Trolls, Tauren, etc).

Sylvanas isn't doing that, however, and is simply doing everything ''For the Horde'', instead of <Insert race> Supremacy.

That's the only reason I can think of. They probably don't 100% approve of her methods though..

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You beat me by 1 minute while I was writing! You said it way better than me, though.

Except Garrosh didn't want to enslave Tauren and Trolls. Tauren were one of the races still allowed into the centre of Orgrimmar, because he valued them for their strength. He still employed Goblins in the Siege of Orgrimmar and on Draenor. He wasn't an orc-purist, he just took whoever was useful to him, and the trolls defied him.

[Nargoron]

Yes, it's pretty odd Blizzard decided to go with the Horde having internal conflict AGAIN instead of doing it with the Alliance. Especially considering they could have done it easily with Jaina or pissed of Night Elves trying to seize power and commit genocide against the Horde races.

Some meeting of writers decided on this course though... they had to have some compelling reasons.

Today horde:

Blood elves: hate trolls (for thousands of years), hate orcs (since first war)
Goblins: Time is money friend! ....hate trolls, love just money
Undead: hate everything living.. like just themselfs and nobody likes them

and then rest of races, more traditional like orcs and trolls, taurens...

I think its quite obvious that this pudding-stone has issues...

[Dalheim]

Except Garrosh didn't want to enslave Tauren and Trolls. Tauren were one of the races still allowed into the centre of Orgrimmar, because he valued them for their strength. He still employed Goblins in the Siege of Orgrimmar and on Draenor. He wasn't an orc-purist, he just took whoever was useful to him, and the trolls defied him.

Maybe not enslave, but he didn't consider them part of his Horde.

From Siege of Orgrimmar cinematic:

Taran Zhu: I have fought besides the tauren, trolls and others.
Taran Zhu: YOU are nothing like them!
Garrosh Hellscream: They are no longer part of MY HORDE!

[Deleted]

Maybe not enslave, but he didn't consider them part of his Horde.

From Siege of Orgrimmar cinematic:

Taran Zhu: I have fought besides the tauren, trolls and others.
Taran Zhu: YOU are nothing like them!
Garrosh Hellscream: They are no longer part of MY HORDE!

Well yeah at that point, they had already betrayed him.

[Dalheim]

Well yeah at that point, they had already betrayed him.

And he still wanted an Orc ONLY Horde. He was always a firm believer in Orc Supremacy, so the taurens would've been thrown out eventually as well, just a matter of time.

[Deleted]

And he still wanted an Orc ONLY Horde. He was always a firm believer in Orc Supremacy, so the taurens would've been thrown out eventually as well, just a matter of time.

At no point did he ever say he wanted only orcs in the Horde. He respected the other races if they had something to offer to the Horde. He had non-orcs in his Horde all the way to WoD when he died.

To him, it was all about strength. It has something to do with his history with the red pox on Draenor.

[Daniri]

Well yeah at that point, they had already betrayed him.

He called his Horde the True Horde because it was purged of non-traditional(in his mind) orcish elements. Don't you remember "the Horde is family" quests? Garrosh came to be despised for how he treated the Horde, not how he treated the Alliance.

[Thestuff1992]

Sylvanas feels like she’s conquering the world for the entirety of the horde. No xenophobia of other races in the horde, no exclusion, etc. Garrosh felt like he was conquering the world for the orcs and his orcish followers aka The True Horde. As time went on he was less respectful towards other races, attempted to assassinage vol’jin, etc.

It seems pretty easy to tell the difference between the two. Obviously both aren’t exactly “good” but obviously the horde want more for themselves hence why they’d follow sylvanas to war.

Everyone supported sylvanas when she first said they were going to war. Saurfang loved it because he wanted more for the horde and so does everyone else. All went downhill when she did some evil stupid shit but they’re still hanging on and trying to get through it because they all want more however with Garrosh they turned against him because he wasn’t doing anything for any of the other races and in fact wanted them purged from the horde.

[Deleted]

Sylvanas feels like she’s conquering the world for the entirety of the horde. No xenophobia of other races in the horde, no exclusion, etc.

The motto of the Forsaken is "Death to the Living".

[Kyphael]

The motto of the Forsaken is "Death to the Living".

But, but, but... she has good intentions and is doing it for the Horde! Nowhere is there proof she doesn't have the best interests for the Horde at heart, no sire!

By the way, that was just me regurgitating the nonsensical defense Sylvanas' fans have been spewing regarding her agenda. They think she has none and isn't using the Horde as a vehicle to achieve her own plans.

[Thestuff1992]

The motto of the Forsaken is "Death to the Living".

That’s why I said “feels like” and not “is”. Obviously her intentions are aimed towards herself and not dying again or ending up in the shadowlands. Forsaken don’t even mean much to her anymore. However if her goal is survival then it lines up with the rest of the horde which is why Saurfang was originally fine with conquering the whole of kalimdor and going to war.

The horde have never had deep issues with the forsaken saying that so I don’t see how it’s relevant all of a sudden. I mean shit, forsaken just tried to reunite with their living human family, so I really don’t think that motto means much anymore.

Can say the same thing about Garrosh as well. “Blood and honor” not much honor in what he did. Consuming old god blood? Killing and purging other races from the horde? None of that screams honor to me.

Either way it’s pretty simple to see which warchief actually benefits the horde more. Not saying she isn’t evil, there isn’t much to say about her actions but going to war to ensure survival is why Saurfang was so on board in the first place. They wanted to which shows that their goals do line up but she took it too far.

[Deleted]

blizz is shit at writing coherent stories, thats nothing new

[Deleted]

The motto of the Forsaken is "Death to the Living".

No it's not, and has not been for ages - it's been "Beware the living" for a long time now.

[united]

blizz is shit at writing coherent stories, thats nothing new

Or maybe you’re shit at understanding them.

[pay928]

Theramore was the point when a lot of people in the Horde realized they have to do something about Garrosh. They start having secret meetings in the book prior to the events at Theramore, cause Malkorok is going around assassinating people who aren't falling in line. Then the manabombing is the oh shit moment where a lot of people realize this is wrong.

Wasn't part of the issue that Garrosh had this weapon the whole time, but didn't tell his leaders about it. This caused needless death on the horde side. Meanwhile, Sylvanas used blight but it was a known plan and there were masks prepared. She was also having them pull back as she blighted farther out parts. She didn't nuke the city until it was the last resort and used herself as bait. Garrosh used his men as bait while he safely hid away.

[Alexeht]

Sylvanas didn't do anything wrong