is wow still Raid or Die after all this years?

[Jastall]

We have more ways to progress our characters than ever before. How is that more raid or die than the days where all the good gear was in raids?

[Kyphael]

What do you mean? I just pet battle and pretend I'm Ash Ketchum. I re-named Stormwind Rat Pikachu.

[crusadernero]

Im not a game designer though.
But i think we need a genius on the field to come up with the next "big thing"

You are talking about a whole new game.

Just look at how wow is buildt. The main purpose. Go out in the world, complete quests and defeat foes. Foes gets stronger and bigger the closer you are to max lvl. The real threat to azeroth is being dealt with at max lvl.

We fight old gods, dragons, monsters and whatnot that is a threat to azeroth. What else is there than big raids to have?

[clevin]

When has WoW EVER been more than 'level,get gear, raid or pvp'?

[HuxNeva]

Raid or Die was solved in Legion under loud protest from a vocal minority that could not stand the 'threat' to their fragile egos.

[Deleted]

You are talking about a whole new game.

Just look at how wow is buildt. The main purpose. Go out in the world, complete quests and defeat foes. Foes gets stronger and bigger the closer you are to max lvl. The real threat to azeroth is being dealt with at max lvl.

We fight old gods, dragons, monsters and whatnot that is a threat to azeroth. What else is there than big raids to have?

In my opinion what made WoW great was the "fresh experience" and the "leveling" and the adventures you had while leveling

Now that leveling is an afterthought...we need actual crap tons of endgame.
Because "leveling" is no longer an adventure. Its something to forget.

I also dont have the answers to what we need.
I think only a genius can come up with new endgame for MMO's.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Surprisingly not. Thanks in no small part to World Quests and Mythic+.

Not that there aren't plenty of people who want to see us go back to those days because "muh mythic raids aren't the end-all be-all of content!"

[Mysterymask]

Wow is a theme park...think of it like Disney World

Raiding is Magic Kingdom
PVP is Disney MGM Studios
Mythic+ is Epcot
these are the biggest portions of the park and where the majority are drawn too...

however all the other stuff are other little portions of the park you can see transmog farming of old raids like Pleasure Island (RIP) and the warfronts like Downtown Disney..not the main draw but its a thing people like to do every so often its not the MAIN DRAW..but the niche things are what make the theme park great

[klepp0906]

Question for you guys
Do you consider WoW to still be "raid or die"?

IMO its an "Almost Completely" if you are only interested in PvE.
If it wasnt for Myhtic+ i would say 100% WoW is raid or die for PvE players.

I came up with a list of the endgame of WoW. What do you guys think about it?
Plz feel free to point out flaws on my list, but i think its more or less alright...probably missing something

majority endgame:
-raids
-pvp
-Mythic +

Mediocre attempts at endgame:
-World Quests
-Island Expeditions
-Warfronts

Niche community endgame:
-Roleplaying
-pet battles
-transmog
-world pvp
-Farming Gold or playing the AH

------------------

And i would like to tell everyone im sorry if i come out as a bit of an annoying person with my threads.
Feel free to block me Less friends for me
I just like to start a conversation

think you have those flip flopped

[A Chozo]

Did you saw my list?

The only true endgame is Raids, PvP and Mythic+.
The rest are either failed attempts or just only for a niche community.

The list could be wrong, and i would like people to point out the flaws of the list.

Oh, that lame list is right. Shame it's just your opinion, so you can't classify WoW as "Raid or Die" just because you are unwilling to do the other content. Plenty of forum posters have voiced that Mythic+ (just an example) is a good form of endgame content, yet aparently your own classification of what is good and bad should be the absolute for a community. It's even distorting the meaning of "Raid or Die".

By your logic, drawing is "use a pen or die" if a artist dislikes pencils.

You show signs of a total lack of empathy when you say stuff like this.

[Deleted]

Oh, that lame list is right. Shame it's just your opinion, so you can't classify WoW as "Raid or Die" just because you are unwilling to do the other content. Plenty of forum posters have voiced that Mythic+ (just an example) is a good form of endgame content, yet aparently your own classification of what is good and bad should be the absolute for a community. It's even distorting the meaning of "Raid or Die".

By your logic, drawing is "use a pen or die" if a artist dislikes pencils.

You show signs of a total lack of empathy when you say stuff like this.

I try to have empathy and i try to put myself in the shoes of others.
But our realities are different.
We never know which one is the absolute truth.

Well...Blizzard knows but they dont share it with us, so we can only guess.

IMO Raids, PvP and Mythic+ are like....the big corporations of the entire business.

IMO! Is just a guess.

[A Chozo]

I try to have empathy and i try to put myself in the shoes of others.
But our realities are different.
We never know which one is the absolute truth.

Well...Blizzard knows but they dont share it with us, so we can only guess.

IMO Raids, PvP and Mythic+ are like....the big corporations of the entire business.

IMO! Is just a guess.

None is the true one, that's why making that list was pointless. Everyone in this thread could've made a list. For me, WoW is Fashion or Die.

For Greg, WoW is Farm iLvL or Die.

You need to have more empathy if you wanna keep making those threads.

[shaunika123]

mythic+ exists

so no?

[tru]

WoW is dead now. Let's move on.

L2SNIP...

I just miss the older structure of raiding.

[McNeil]

Nah, but that doesn’t mean that BFA isn’t bad or at least underwhelming.

[Ornerybear]

raiding is only required for people who want to get gear to raid, so it's not really raid or die, you can obtain gear that is definitely sufficient by doing non raid content that will be more than powerful enough for non raid content. So far we dont even have any quests tied to raiding, unlike in MoP/WoD/Legion. SO I would say it's less raid or die than ever before.

You also can't argue its required for mog collectors, because they can always come back later to get the gear easily when the next expansion comes out.

[Deleted]

My opinion is this:

For those who never raided seriously the game is far from raid-or-die.

For those who have ever raided seriously the game will always be raid-or-die. This doesn't mean that they will raid or that they want to raid, but that once you've raided and played at that level it's hard to feel satisfied knowing that you're not competitive anymore and not playing to the best of your abilities.

That's just my two cents, coming from a former serious raider.

Thats a very good point
Supported by @Ornerybear reply

raiding is only required for people who want to get gear to raid, so it's not really raid or die, you can obtain gear that is definitely sufficient by doing non raid content that will be more than powerful enough for non raid content. So far we dont even have any quests tied to raiding, unlike in MoP/WoD/Legion. SO I would say it's less raid or die than ever before.

You also can't argue its required for mog collectors, because they can always come back later to get the gear easily when the next expansion comes out.

[Alopex Major]

Almost, it's raid or M+.

[Ornerybear]

Thats a very good point
Supported by @Ornerybear reply

I definitely agree with this as well. I've only been PUGing for both legion and BFA, and I'm never satisfied with where I'm at in raiding and always feel like I need to keep pushing into Heroic and pushing that ilvl. That said, I gain A LOT of satisfaction from the challenge of it, the gear allows me to keep pushing the difficulty so to me, I'm not going to go endlessly run mythic+ just for ilvl so i can raid, I'd rather just keep joining pugs and seeing how many bosses I can down. Makes getting gear drops feel better than making the gear drops my primary goal. If all that makes sense. That said, I had a great flawless clear of normal lastnight, that i got a tons of drops on (2 weapons and two upgrades), so even though it wasn't a challenging week, if I don't run Heroic at all, I'll still feel like "this was a good raiding week".

[GreenJesus]

It's raid or die for me. If I'm not raiding I don't log in. So 7 hours per week.