Cyberpunk 2077

[Makabreska]

I would be fine with going back to this:

This amount of text wont return to any big AAA RPG's. We have Kickstarter games like Pillars for or Tides of Numenera for that.

[Endus]

I would be fine with going back to this:

Honestly, I wouldn't. It's not as good as you think it is.

1> You're still limited to whatever options are pre-written for you. That there are 12 instead of 4 doesn't really help if what you WANT to do isn't on the list you're offered.

2> Most of those options were silly and fundamentally irrelevant in how the game played out. Options 1, 3, 4, and 8 would take you to Branch 1, options 5, 6, 10, and 12 would lead to Branch 2, and Options 2, 7, 9, and 11 would lead to Branch 3. With maybe an extra line between your selection and the branch in question, based on your choice.

You really didn't get as much flexibility as you recall having. Compare that to tabletop D&D or something. Where if I want to catch a frog and throw it at the BBEG's face because I think frog-to-the-face is funny, I can totally do that, even if the DM is thinking "WTF" the whole time. I guarantee that if you give me the kind of social situation you see in an early Fallout or Baldur's Gate which supposedly had a lot of flexibility, tabletop expands those options by, well, effectively infinite. It isn't even close. It's so egregiously weighted towards tabletop that I'd prefer if video games focus on capitalizing on the kind of storytelling they're ideal for, and leave other forms to the media best suited for them.

Citing games like Fallout 2 for their flexibility of choice is kind of like a console player bragging about how great their controller is for FPS gaming. Maybe it's good for that platform, but it isn't "good" in a broader scale.

[Witchblade77]

see, for me it doesn't need to have a dozen conversation options where only 2 of them provide any difference in outcome. I'm perfectly happy with degree of customization of say dragon age 4 (where different tones set the relationships with various characters, so even when overall outcomes were the same, relationships had some differences)

I just want to know exactly what my character is going to say is all. is that too much to ask?

[unholytestament]

You really didn't get as much flexibility as you recall having. Compare that to tabletop D&D or something.

Why wouldn't we compare it to the video games we are already talking about?

I mean, no shit a video game doesn't compare to the power of our own imagination. Did someone say it did? Did I miss that?

[Endus]

Why wouldn't we compare it to the video games we are already talking about?

I mean, no shit a video game doesn't compare to the power of our own imagination. Did someone say it did? Did I miss that?

I mean the general complaint is "these games were better when we had a dozen conversation options, not 4 like we do today".

And my point is that the branching paths really aren't functionally different, today. They're just presented differently. A system giving you 5 different options that all lead to the same outcome isn't actually providing you choice; it's an illusion.

If you want narrative freedom, you won't find it within a video game architecture. They're not suited to that kind of storytelling. It's only ever going to be a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book, not you writing your own story.

[unholytestament]

I mean the general complaint is "these games were better when we had a dozen conversation options, not 4 like we do today".

And my point is that the branching paths really aren't functionally different, today. They're just presented differently. A system giving you 5 different options that all lead to the same outcome isn't actually providing you choice; it's an illusion.

If you want narrative freedom, you won't find it within a video game architecture. They're not suited to that kind of storytelling. It's only ever going to be a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book, not you writing your own story.

Okay, then that says little to what is actually being discussed.

You do you, I guess.

[Endus]

Okay, then that says little to what is actually being discussed.

You do you, I guess.

I'm talking about the image Shinzai linked above, of Baldurs Gate 2 (I think, I see Minsc in there), and 11 conversation options. My last two posts were in direct response to that.

[unholytestament]

I'm making this post in a vacuum. Just like Shinzai clearly did. Not at all motivated by any ongoing discussions.

[Endus]

I'm making this post in a vacuum. Just like Shinzai clearly did. Not at all motivated by any ongoing discussions.

You're trying to pick a fight for no reason, and I have no idea why. I also have no interest in playing ball with that.

[Shinzai]

I probably should have clarified, it was more the detail of the replies than the quantity, since that was the issue at hand.

Each of those listed replies are e actually what your character says in reply. Most of them have similar responses due to their non-sequitur nature, but it is what your character will say.

[CatsNeverDie]

it is incredibly annoying, IMO. sometimes paraphrases are.. eh, not horrible, but most of the time, they do not given you anywhere near enough context.

which is why one of my fave (and absolutely essential) mods for Fallout 4 is the one that changes paraphrases in dialogue wheel (of all the things to borrow from Bioware, I swear...) to actual full text that your sole survivor is going to be saying.

I'm really REALLY not a fan of paraphrases :/

Sounds like the devs need to take this important feedback and incorporate it into their game making.

[Halicia]

I probably should have clarified, it was more the detail of the replies than the quantity, since that was the issue at hand.

Each of those listed replies are e actually what your character says in reply. Most of them have similar responses due to their non-sequitur nature, but it is what your character will say.

I absolutely *loathe* these types of games when the speech options don't directly line up with what you're presented. I believe some games in this genre also used colors to identify the tone of the text (or good/evil in the case of mass effect), which was a useful touch. Sometimes its hard to distinguish between say.... sarcasm and a threat, until its too late and the NPC is calling for the guards.

In response to Endus, I think a good way of managing "many choices!" is to move away from the conversation tree format and try to have a fairly shallow tree with many options instead of just sticking with the standard good/evil.

If you have say, twelve different options, but each apply different +/-'s to faction/alignment/NPC relations.... EVEN SMALL AMOUNTS.... it can go well. But this only works when the choices and consequences are relatively inline with what you expect... which is why conversation trees can be bad, you've already locked in decisions before you're even presented with the choice.

[Whatever Dude]

1st person locked mode killed all my hype.

The demo they showed off was pure mediocrity.

[Majestic12]

1st person locked mode killed all my hype.

The demo they showed off was pure mediocrity.

If you want to 3rd person peek around corners just play Deus Ex. Rest of is finally get a game without bullshit systems like that.

[Derah]

So, been a while since anything about this game came out, but a small batch of info is FINALLY here. Lets dig in.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjxypZBe2oc

I'll be summing up some of the points of this video that caught my eye the most.

1: This is still a rumor, but during october, a Turkish publisher, who previously worked with CDPR to distribute Witcher 3, accidentally tweeted that CP77 would release in 2019. They deleted the tweet quickly afterwards, but a lot of people are putting some faith into the rumor because again, these guys have distributed CDPR games in the past, and will still distribute CP77 in Turkey (though Namco is distributing in most of europe, and warner brothers is doing so for north america)

2: Multiplayer studio Digital Scapes (Who previously worked with another polish developer Techland to create the multiplayer mode for Dying Light) will be helping CDPR with CP77. Presumably, these guys will handle the post-launch multiplayer component of the game, and have gone on record saying they have a long term partnership with CDPR to co-create CP77 together

3: Breathe a sigh of relief: There will be NO procedurally generated content in CP77 at all, not in environments, quests, NPCs, or anything at all. Their goal is to have absolutely everything about the game hand-crafted.

4: Any story, character, or theme that aren't explored in depth on the main quest, will be fully fleshed out in side-quests. To paraphrase the exact quote, they want to avoid quests feeling like they're just "filler content", you know, stuff to get more money or XP for the next big thing. Instead, they're aiming for the side-quests to have as much meaning, depth, nuance, and importance as the main quests, so you never feel like you're just padding out the running time of the game.

5: When asked "is there prostitution in the game?" their response was: Yep, night city has girls performing the oldest profession in the book. The interviewed dev however refused to confirm if players can actually solicit the services of these prostitutes, saying that we'll have to wait and see. We'll definitely interact with some to some degree, simply because they're there, and so some of them may be involved in side or main quests, but to actually have sex with them, is up in the air. I think it'll happen, I mean, in the witcher games, you could make gerald quite the whoremonger, and I see no reason why CDPR would shy away from that in this game.

6: CDPR is humbled and thrilled that a lot of people have compared CP77 to GTA, but have said that while they're flattered for the comparison to this iconic juggernaught of the gaming industry, they're aiming for a more focused, story-driven experience with their game, though this is not to say we wont be allowed to "goof off" like players can in GTA where its common practice to just wreak havok in the city. Having said that, the cops of night city are not pushovers. These guys are professional militarized operatives, packing cutting edge implants, weaponry, and tactical gear, sponsored by the richest corporations in the country, so don't expect night city's cops to be so easily mowed down by the dozen like GTA cops are.

There's more info on the video to peruse if you're curious. Its not a lot, but i'm so hungry for little details that any that trickle down are godsent :P

[Blayze]

I'm talking about the image Shinzai linked above, of Baldurs Gate 2 (I think, I see Minsc in there), and 11 conversation options. My last two posts were in direct response to that.

That's not a vanilla conversation, it's from a mod. I don't think you ever have that many dialogue options at any one point in the base game.
But of all the mods to choose a picture of, why did it have to be the paedophile one?

[Derah]

That's not a vanilla conversation, it's from a mod. I don't think you ever have that many dialogue options at any one point in the base game.
But of all the mods to choose a picture of, why did it have to be the paedophile one?

paedo? o_O ta hell? What are you talking about?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Honestly, I wouldn't. It's not as good as you think it is.

1> You're still limited to whatever options are pre-written for you. That there are 12 instead of 4 doesn't really help if what you WANT to do isn't on the list you're offered.

I have to agree, at least partially. When I recently played PoE2:DF I was essentially in agreement with what Eothas was planning to do, but the only answers that would have fit were either religious zealot ones (which would have gone against his point pretty much) or oherwise rubbish, so I always had to go with the cautiously questioning types as that was the only thing that wasn't completely off.. and they usually have 5-7 options.

But that still does not mean I like the Bioware or FO4 ones, because that tends to have too many tonal differences in the short blip than the actual answer comes down to..

Edit: oops. your post was a bit..older. sry.

[Blayze]

paedo? o_O ta hell? What are you talking about?

Saerileth is fifteen.

Other than that, it's a terrible mod. Check this out:

Speaking of pedophiles, there's this classical gem.

I give you Saerileth, a Baldur's Gate 2 NPC mod about a 15-year old paladin who's the best celestial teenage girl and also chosen by her god. She falls in love with you at the first sight, talks like what you'd think Shakespeare talked like if you've never read any of him, has over 500 voiced lines, interrupts dialogue with every other NPC, can die from heartbreak if you cheat on her and destroys all evil (the best) items if given.
For some reason it's the most praised mod for BG2 that exists, though that could be partially caused by her creator banning everyone speaking ill of it. Or maybe by BG2 fanbase being a bunch of creepy hugboxers.

From here:

If you have sex with the Drow in Ust Natha; she *dies* from heartbreak.

She also dies of heartbreak if you decide to become a God in ToB. She can die from heartbreak a few more times IIRC.

Ah yes, Saerileth. There's really no way to describe the whole extent of my hate for this particular pile of failure. There are few mods this aggravatingly horrible IMO. She's a perfect little flower, and horrifyingly written, too. And that stupid, stupid Ye Olde English. Anyone familiar with the term "Mary Sue"? It fits quite well in this case.

Oh, and another great part: at one point during the romance, a demon comes and tries to break it. Not via clever plans or dark secrets, but by TAKING AWAY ALL THE CHARISMA-ENCHANTING ITEMS ON CHARNAME. If his Charisma is under 14, that's it, it's all over immidiately. Screw love, you have to be handsome or that's it.
Yeeah, it's a great mod alright.

The voice acting sucks, the ye olde English sucks, the fact you can flirt with her and tell her you love her FROM THE MOMENT SHE JOINS sucks.

(You can also kiss her as soon as you meet her, apparently)

[Gallahadd]

Saerileth is fifteen.

Just saying, but in many places nowadays, and many times throughout history that is legal.

That said, holy shit that mod/character was atrocious. One of the worst cases of Mary Sue’s outside of fanfiction. Just... fucking hell, so awful.

And yeah, the Charisma thing always bothered me...