Does America even have a Left?

[Deleted]

If you think that's what he's spreading then you fundamentally don't understand his views.

Look, he needs to tone down the fucking rhetoric.

The "1%" are not the problem and if he wants them on his side then he needs to stop demonizing them. i.e. don't bite the hand that feeds.

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If you think that's what he's spreading then you fundamentally don't understand his views.

I'm not exactly pro-welfare, but I would expect a genuine centrist to at least understand that:

1. capitalism creates wealth
2. you need a good amount of it if you want to have enough wealth to redistribute for various social programs

He treats rich people like they're the enemy.

Come to think of it, he treats some non-rich people the same way.

I'm not rich but I do own stocks, I don't want idiotic regulations and high corporate tax rates, they don't benefit me.

[Adam Jensen]

I'm not exactly pro-welfare, but I would expect a genuine centrist to at least understand that:

1. capitalism creates wealth
2. you need a good amount of it if you want to have enough wealth to redistribute for various social programs

He treats rich people like they're the enemy.

Come to think of it, he treats some non-rich people the same way.

I'm not rich but I do own stocks, I don't want idiotic regulations and high corporate tax rates, they don't benefit me.

He does understand that capitalism increases wealth. Bernie has nothing against capitalism and has even said that the means of production should be in the hands of private enterprise.

He simply believes, as rational people do, that capitalism needs to be controlled because there's too much potential for abuse. Look at Amazon and Walmart. Look at Standard Oil and the Gilded Age. Look at the Pinkerton Agency. There are sooo many examples of capitalism run amok and abusing workers and citizens and polluting our air and rivers. Capitalism is a good thing, but it can't be allowed to exist in excess. Bernie is about keeping that excess in check.

He doesn't hate the rich. He disparages this ridiculous idea that the rich don't need to pay taxes. He believes that since the rich have benefited so much from our society, it's only fair they give back and pay their share in taxes and pay workers decent wages. But he doesn't hate them. He doesn't want to impoverish them or anything like that.

You don't want idiotic regulations? Okay, I'll just defraud you and cheat you out of everything you own. Regulations exist for a reason. They exist because assholes would otherwise abuse the system to screw you and me and everyone else.

[Deleted]

He doesn't hate the rich. He disparages this ridiculous idea that the rich don't need to pay taxes. He believes that since the rich have benefited so much from our society, it's only fair they give back and pay their share in taxes and pay workers decent wages. But he doesn't hate them. He doesn't want to impoverish them or anything like that.

He wants a 15$ minimum wage.

Problem? It won't be just rich people paying for it. Failing or struggling businesses will also have to pay that wage.

This argument completely falls apart. Not every corporation is that immensely profitable and not every shareholder is rich. And if a corporation is rich, chances are it already pays its workers better. Certainly nobody with an education has to worry about minimum wage, if you have a real skill, you're going to earn more than 15$ an hour.

If you really want to tax rich people, tax personal incomes while leaving corporate taxes very low.

You don't want idiotic regulations? Okay, I'll just defraud you and cheat you out of everything you own. Regulations exist for a reason. They exist because assholes would otherwise abuse the system to screw you and me and everyone else.

There are plenty of regulations that have absolutely nothing to do with preventing fraud.

They serve no legitimate purpose and are only there so you have to waste money on lawyers to even understand how to comply with them.

[El Caballero de Olmedo]

I always hear the tired BS that is left v right but does America even have a left? I know from the European pov the Democrats never really felt left, just two versions of right. It always make me wonder how they would handle a genuine left party.

What do you consider as genuine left party? What characteristics or requirements establish a party as being truly left?

[Bodakane]

The last time we had a real left President, the right had him assassinated.

[Themius]

The minimum for being remotely left is SERIOUS wealth redistribution.

Left in America is higher wages abolishment of loopholes and healthcare. You know things that aren’t left or right issues anywhere else.

[ipaq]

Jesus this is mind numbing Yes the Democrats are left, the U.S has a left, just because people don't fit in whatever made up mold truly ignorant people have about what liberal or left means is irrelevant.

People can be on the left and vehemently disagree. The question comes down to core values. For example Catholics and Protestants are Christians. They have also gone to war and murdered one another over their indifference on ideas, and not their core principles. The same can be said of any religion, or gang, Bloods and Crips have sets, so just because one is a Blood for example on place doesn't mean that is recognize in another place.

Ideas change, interpretations evolve. It doesn't mean they don't share a common core.


Give any group or ideology enough time you will have splinter groups, this is even true of Racist, Sexist, Homophobes etc. These are belief systems they are still tied to a core, but they can still be as different as say.

Shiite Muslims and Sunni Muslims, or Wahhabis.

Ethnic Orthodox Jewish, or Judaism


Democrats in the U.S are left, the Liberals of Canada are Left, they are both liberal, that doesn't mean they are infallible to each other, or outside of a core they aren't very very different.

I am all for black and white, and I am not suggesting these are gray areas either. I am just saying outside of core values things like methodology can change.


And yes Left and Liberals can be racist, they often aren't but they can be, Conservatives just seem to be a lot more honest. But I don't personally think a person is racist without proof or unless they support Alt-Right = Trump.

People that are part of cults are mentally hill, they should not count since they can only slow down, if not regress, advancement.

You guys are just doomed to implode since you cannot get ride of that hypocrisy syndrome you've been suffering since the early 80's.

PS: Yes, religion are cults.