If you play addon free dont join group activity

[Deleted]

Sure. You can prove them wrong with the achievements they manage, though, compared to the ones calling it a necessity (which is what I was arguing against).

Necessity for what?

[Ryzeth]

Necessity for what?

...Competing, like they tried arguing they were necessary for..? I thought we covered this already like 5 pages back.

The physical method in which you play the game is literally just changing how you send information to the game, you're just playing semantics.
Except one is quite literally faster at transmitting that information (reception and transmission are two different things). I can aim a headshot at you very noticeably quicker with a mouse, than I can with a controller. But a big circle around your head isn't gonna change my ability to, if you're moving. It quite simply isn't the same as comparing addons to controllers.
With the proper setup you're more efficient, you have access to it for free, why not fucking use it?
<snipped the analogy>
You're still awful at making analogies, lol. You literally just changed the objects from kbm/controller, to something with the same degree of comparability. That is to say, not comparable at all. For analogies to work, the things you're comparing have to actually be the same. It's not semantics. You just suck at analogies.

[Katchii]

Yeah, but we're also not talking about something that requires extra effort. Get the useful addons, make a decent UI and you're good to go, everything will be easier and your performance will go up, at no cost.

There's no valid excuse to play with a shitty setup. Just "I don't want to" is literally idiocy. And "basic UI is good enough" is just "reverse lazy", by that I mean it sounds lazy to not go get the addons while in fact you're nerfing yourself because if you had the proper stuff you could do everything else eazier, which is the real "lazier" option.

Shitty set-up is subjective though. What's good for you may be terrible for me. There's also a learning curve when changing things up radically, which some UI's can do, some are wiling to go through that, but some aren't. I'm one that is not willing to do that

But I agree, there really isn't much of an excuse for not getting even basic add-ons like DBM, which literally just require you to download them, as there's no in-game tweaking to do with those, just download, turn them on and that's it.

UI tweaking is extremely personal. I don't like spending time setting it up, mainly because I just don't want to spend that time screwing around with it when I just want to play and the default UI is good enough for me to do what I want to do. Also, whenever a patch hits, super custom UI's get broken for at least a day or two until the add-ons get updated, and sometimes still need to be fixed. If your set-up is completely different than the base UI, you may not be able to function properly until ti's fixed. I had that problem back in TBC once when I had one like it....never again.

I do use some UI add-ons now but it's just to clean it up a little, as I just don't like how the default UI looks, not change the set-up completely so when it defaults to the basic UI it's just an eye sore, but I can still play completely fine.

[Deleted]

...Competing, like they tried arguing they were necessary for..? I thought we covered this already like 5 pages back.

And where did I claim that you can't compete without addons?

[Katchii]

Don't steal my line.

But it's a good line....and imitation is the greatest form of flattery? Or something?

[Ryzeth]

And where did I claim that you can't compete without addons?

Nowhere did I say it was you that said it. I said it was the original argument.
Good lord.

[Swalload]

...Competing, like they tried arguing they were necessary for..? I thought we covered this already like 5 pages back.

Dunno what to tell you man. You're like the dumb kid in the classroom who doesn't understand anything and everybody is sharing weird looks, silently laughing at you because you're the only one not understanding.

Addons and controllers do ONE thing. COMMUNICATION between the player and the game. They both serve the same purpose of allowing the player to play better. Yes one is SENDING INFORMATION TO THE PLAYER while the other one is SENDING INFORMATION TO THE GAME. They have different use to server the same purpose. Like the measuring tape and the drill, they have different use but for the same purpose.

A shitty interface is like using a 10cm piece of wood to measure things.
The good addons help understanding the game just like the measure tape is better than the 10cm piece of wood to mark your spots to screw.

So far you're following? Okay good.

Then you can play your FPS game with a controller, which is the equivalent of using a manual screw driver, it works, but it's nowhere near the best.
So you can use a mouse and keyboard instead to make everything better, just like it's easier to use an electric drill to screw.

The comparison is not in the task they perform, it's in the concept of using the most efficient tool for the task. I was NEVER comparing controller to addons, I was comparing the IMPROVEMENT between a controller to keyboard and mouse to the IMPROVEMENT of basic UI versus using good addons.

Which is factually the same concept, improve your tools, be more efficient, that's it.

[Gouca]

Well, here's the thing. People that do not use dbm/bigwigs will get carried one way or another, because they will always have someone on discord calling everything for them, and the people calling will always be using those addons.

Not necessarily. The more hardcore you go, the less AddOns have impact on your game play. All the boss mechanics have visual or timed cues so given an appropriate preparation it honestly doesn't require much to not need AddOns in any way.

[Deleted]

Nowhere did I say it was you that said it. I said it was the original argument.

What's the point of telling me you disagree with something someone else said that has nothing to do with what I said? Doesn't make any sense to me.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I healed Addon free for most of heroic Uldir and know another healer in the raid does as well and we never had any problems. Wasn’t till I swapped over to tanking that I got dbm as it really wasn’t needed with how many tells bosses have.

[Swalload]

Shitty set-up is subjective though. What's good for you may be terrible for me. There's also a learning curve when changing things up radically, which some UI's can do, some are wiling to go through that, but some aren't. I'm one that is not willing to do that

But I agree, there really isn't much of an excuse for not getting even basic add-ons like DBM, which literally just require you to download them, as there's no in-game tweaking to do with those, just download, turn them on and that's it.

UI tweaking is extremely personal. I don't like spending time setting it up, mainly because I just don't want to spend that time screwing around with it when I just want to play and the default UI is good enough for me to do what I want to do. Also, whenever a patch hits, super custom UI's get broken for at least a day or two until the add-ons get updated, and sometimes still need to be fixed. If your set-up is completely different than the base UI, you may not be able to function properly until ti's fixed. I had that problem back in TBC once when I had one like it....never again.

I do use some UI add-ons now but it's just to clean it up a little, as I just don't like how the default UI looks, not change the set-up completely so when it defaults to the basic UI it's just an eye sore, but I can still play completely fine.

True there's not ONE good setup, but everyone can agree that the basic fucking UI that puts information in all the opposing corners of the screen is straight up disgustingly not helpful. Having things closer to the middle of the screen, closer and where you most often look help tremendously. From this point on you can set things the way you like, not everyone will put their cooldowns to the left, if you enjoythem more on the right or a little lower that's good for you, just don't let them sit in the corner that forces you to look away from other important information, that's counterproductive.

There's a basic concept of objectively better setup then there's the details that are subjective and mostly aesthetics.

[Ryzeth]

What's the point of telling me you disagree with something someone else said that has nothing to do with what I said? Doesn't make any sense to me.

You're the one who first quoted me, talking with someone else mate. It's a bit awkward when you can't follow a conversation that you started.

Dunno what to tell you man.<snip>
I dunno man. Most of the people in this thread agree with me, so far, about addons not being an outright necessity. And only a subjective-at-best improvement.

Addons and controllers do ONE thing <snip>.
Sure I agree. Except you compared addons to controllers. "It's like playing an FPS game with a controller" was literally your argument.

Then you can play your DPS game with a controller <snip>
I assume you meant to say FPS. In which case we go back to the argument of controllers vs addons not being the same.

The comparison is not in the task they perform <snip>
What you said, and what you meant, are two different things.

Which is factually the same concept, improve your tools, be more efficient, that's it.
If I do 10k (arbitrary number) dps with WA and do mechanics fine with DBM... Then I do 10k dps without WA, and still do mechanics just as fine without DBM. Then there's no efficiency to be gained, yes?

edit: Snipped it to be... Less of a wall of text.
edit2: More wrong.

There's a basic concept of objectively better setup then there's the details that are subjective and mostly aesthetics.

But something being better for one person, may be worse for another person. In which case there is no 'objectively better setup' - Everyone reads the screen differently from someone else. There is no 'objectively better setup'. You need to learn your definitions.

[Deleted]

You're the one who first quoted me, talking with someone else mate. It's a bit awkward when you can't follow a conversation that you started.

What is the conversation that you are talking about? I don't care about you guys arguing if addons are necessity for achieving certain things in the game. Talk with someone else if you want to talk about that. I am only talking about maximizing your own performance in arena.

[The Stormbringer]

How you play without add-ons:

1.) Figure out your best rotations in different situations. Is there a lot of time sitting still? Moving around? Swapping to adds? Etc.
2.) Get a detailed explanation of the boss fights and watch some boss fight videos with commentary to learn the fight.
3.) Have feasts, flasks, enchants, etc. all ready beforehand.
4.) Join the voice chat and follow any additional directions, marking, etc. that the leader gives you.
5.) Success!

[Onikaroshi]

Bah, aside from timers, most things are announced now, you don't really need them anymore and this is coming from someone who uses them. Now if you raid lead, you should probably keep them around though.

[javierdsv]

I agree with the OP.

IF the are tools to be time efficient. You have to use them. As not doing so equals to wasting someone else's time.

[Ryzeth]

What is the conversation that you are talking about? I don't care about you guys arguing if addons are necessity for achieving certain things in the game. Talk with someone else if you want to talk about that. I am only talking about maximizing your own performance in arena.

Which is subjective. Just like addons maximising performance anywhere else. The benefit depends entirely on the person using them. For plenty they provide no benefit at all. Just like some can't play without them. Using the blanket statement of "not using addons = you're bad and selfish and dumb" is simply wrong.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Not necessarily. The more hardcore you go, the less AddOns have impact on your game play. All the boss mechanics have visual or timed cues so given an appropriate preparation it honestly doesn't require much to not need AddOns in any way.

Yea sure, the guy doing the calls doesn't have any timers or other information on his screen, sure dude.

[RoKPaNda]

But you DPS meter is still active so you can look at the data after the fights or wipes right? This is what I assume when you say you don't keep the meters 'visible'. And of course it's completely fine not to have the dps meters visible during the fights. That's pretty normal.

Not really, no. It's more of an epeen thing when I'm not focused on progression, or habit at this point. If I'm not doing something right it'll get pointed out to me. Very rarely do I actually look at the meter whether it's in combat or out.

[HCLM]

People thinking you dont need addons most likely never touched heroic in first 2 weeks from release, and they are getting carried now. There is not a single Mythic guild that will allow you to play without dbm/bigwings and tuned WA.

It is like using paper to calculate your stuff instead of excel... You can do that but only a moron gonna waste his and someone else time by doing that.

Some people just must feel special by not following what other people do.