Viewpoint: 'Why most men should pay on first dates'

[Deleted]

Spectral has already conceded that the gap still exists when you account for hours worked, so you can scratch that one off.

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I really enjoy your satire account ahahaha.

Well it is a gap to make a kardashian envious

[THE Bigzoman]

That study is limited to one year after graduation and those numbers are adjusted for all reasonably measurable factors.

Yes, but there's also variables that cannot be measured reliably that can also explain the gap.

You can't just point at the stochastic error term of an regression and claim that one immeasurable variable among several others is at play. That's not how the shit works.

The gap is shown to widen as women's careers progress.

The floor is yours. I've never seen a time-series analysis of earnings that controls for a lot of variables over time.

I don't know why people here like to argue that sexism doesn't exist, because it clearly does. We had both men and women stating openly during the 2016 election cycle that HRC wouldn't have been a good president because she is a woman

Bullshit.

I'm not going to speak for @Spectral or anyone else, but I never said that.

Infancy and early childhood are critical stages for human development, yet we consistently pay child care workers below a living wage.

A bit off-topic, but i'll throw something here.

(1). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5330336/
(2).https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117507&page=1

Child care workers shouldn't have a significant role during a kid's early development. Even the most expensive day care isn't even close to comparable to a loving parent(1).

Studies have also shown that time in child care facilities are linked to aggressive behavior in children (2).

Granted there's studies that also show no adverse relationship exists, "It's not bad for your kids to spend a lot of time into daycare" doesn't translate into "Daycare plays such a positive role in your child's development that you should totally pay more"

[Elim Garak]

Why would sexism not affect the pay gap? Lots of things are illegal in the workplace, that doesn't mean that this shit doesn't happen. Look at how many Fortune 500 CEOs are minorities or women. Hell, even gay CEOs. People discriminate.

Only systemic widespread sexism can affect such a global and average thing as pay gap. I have no doubt that there's a man who earns less just because he is a man - but it doesn't affect the pay gap.

Sexism and homophobia have nothing to do with the composition of the F500.

Most workplaces discourage discussion of salaries (which should be illegal, in my opinion) and it's very difficult to prove that hiring/promotions/salaries are due to any sort of -ism because they're explained away by a number of other factors. Sometimes it is legitimate and sometimes it is not.

Secrecy about salaries has nothing to do with sexism. No matter how you feel about it.

Also are you the one who said that men are more skilled at certain things? Lol. We can get into brain differences if you want but if anything women have the more beneficial skillset for workplaces, due to an innate ability to multitask better and better communication skills, which are particularly useful in management positions. Male advantage in things like spatial ability is beneficial for a limited amount of professions, most of them trades-based.

Men are logically wired, women are wired emotionally. Men are better at logical jobs, women at social. Female multitasking is a myth, women can do as many tasks at the same time as men, women just can SWITCH more easily. Because men - are focused more on the task at hand, so it takes longer for them to switch to another task.

Women don't have a more beneficial skillset for workplaces. This is such a broad generelisation it's EW. In hich tech fields women are DETRIMENTAL to a workplace. Ask any honest FEMALE CEO in IT. Females are good at nursing and working with people in general. This is what ACTUAL data shows. In the study you provided. Men are technical, women are social.

Communication skill is the LEAST important in the MANAGEMENT position. It is also the easiest to master. A good manager will hire a female communicator if they don't want to master the skill themselves.

Men and women are complimentary, not equal.

[Grimbold21]

Why would sexism not affect the pay gap? Lots of things are illegal in the workplace, that doesn't mean that this shit doesn't happen. Look at how many Fortune 500 CEOs are minorities or women. Hell, even gay CEOs. People discriminate.

Historical background is important in that assessment. Women getting into the workforce is a relatively new thing, and them stepping into leadership positions even newer, so it is not surprising that they make up a minority of leaders of men led enterprises that have been around for decades.

So, you see to say "let's take a sample of the most successful companies in the world and see how many are led by women." is an unfair examination. Not to mention that the men who lead them are themselves are minority within the larger male group.

Also, that analysis leaves out the fact that these are highly competitive environments where only a few make it. Add in the fact that women, being a minority already in such contexts, on average choose to jump ship and go build a family or something by the time they're between 30-35, you'll get an even smaller group of women from which to work from.

[Phlegethon]

So you concede that a) it exists, and b) even all of your excuses taken together does not eliminate it?

You just agreed with me.

No, I did not, but please continue.

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I've heard department supervisors in my workplace say that they won't hire women for trades positions in the future because a couple of those are going on maternity leave for a year. The fact that you lose all of their productivity for a year can be detrimental to any business, and when our work outlook is going on 2-3 years from now, it's hard to account for increasing manpower when women get pregnant when you are looking that far ahead as a business. And they are guaranteed their jobs when they come back, and if work isn't as busy as anticipated, the people who get hired to replace the women on maternity leave get let go.

And I don't say that is the right thing to do, but from a company viewpoint, you can see why that is.
But it doesn't really matter, in time, we don't even need to work. AI and robots will do that for us. We'll get to do whatever we want.

[Rennadrel]

No, I did not, but please continue.

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And I don't say that is the right thing to do, but from a company viewpoint, you can see why that is.
But it doesn't really matter, in time, we don't even need to work. AI and robots will do that for us. We'll get to do whatever we want.

The irony is that my line of work involves the implementation of robots and automation. Still need people to build that shit.

[Mormolyce]

No, I did not, but please continue.

Why would I continue? You conceded the point.

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It's a myth, stop living in fantasy world. You and Justin from Canada are the only two people in the world that still believe it.

I can see how you might think that if you avoid ever so much as googling the topic. Again:

It exists across countries:



Across industries:



And regardless of education level:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender..._United_States

Any other brave last stands against basic facts? Flat earth? Moon landing denial? Holocaust deni... oh actually that one wouldn't surprise me aha.

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Whenever people discuss or mention the wage gap, 9 times out of time they're referring to the notion that women are paid less because of discrimination, not that women are just paid less.

Then they agree that the gender pay gap exists, but believe they have an explanation for it.

So say it, you agree that the gender pay gap exists. I know it, you know it, you've already effectively admitted it. Stop being dishonest.

[nyeh]

And yet it also exposes how out of touch with reality some women are. There was only one person in that video that would realistically rank above a 5. She gave all the other women higher scores when they were actually less attractive than most of the guys. It's a pretty accurate indicator of where society is. If you're a dumpy female, "yo go girl". If you're a dumpy guy, "manlet loser".

Well I mean... even when women don't look great, they still look better than men who don't look great and I don't think you have to be a homosexual or bisexual to feel that way.

Like 2 of the guys made an effort to look decent. 2 of the girls were red hot. That lil asian girl was like... wuteva. But I bet you I could have made all of those guys look better in less than 20 minutes. Even better than that with an hour if you put me next to a thrift store or a ross dress for less. Like it's honestly sad how dudes present themselves.

How oblivious do you have to be to show up to a show like that looking like that hate crime church shooter? You could shave this dude's head, get him a trucker cap, a bomber jacket, some fuckin jeans and some boots and he'd at least look like he was somebody's dad instead of looking like the last time he was in pussy was when the doctors evicted him from his mom's cooter.

[Levelfive]

This is why the unconscious bias, as the study itself points out, is most likely the biggest contributor to this phenomenon. It's an intuitive reasoning in a way but anyone honest with themselves is likely aware that it exists and, sadly, comes from both sexes. I could go on about women being prejudiced against other women and toxic femininity in general, but on a website where morons compare teachers and nurses to dishwashers, they couldn't pay me enough to even want to participate. Kudos for trying to argue with the MRA brigade though.

My favorites are the posts claiming subconscious bias can't possibly play a role because everybody "knows" women are just biologically worse at the tech and logic stuff.

[Eveningforest]

My favorites are the posts claiming subconscious bias can't possibly play a role because everybody "knows" women are just biologically worse at the tech and logic stuff.

This most likely comes from men that lay bricks for a living. Btw, you used the correct word 'subconscious' as opposed to 'unconscious', but this is MMO-C, again, who the heck cares.

[Illiterate]

I can see how you might think that if you avoid ever so much as googling the topic. Again:

It exists across countries:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/lKCJdpW.png[img]

Across industries:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZP7LLWS.png?1[img]

And regardless of education level:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/LztMova.png[img]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender..._United_States

Any other brave last stands against basic facts? Flat earth? Moon landing denial? Holocaust deni... oh actually that one wouldn't surprise me aha.

It's almost like...if you worked the same jobs and the same hours as men, you'd be paid the same. Shocking, right? But it must be easier to just push conspiracy theories instead of looking at the truth.

[Celista]

Historical background is important in that assessment. Women getting into the workforce is a relatively new thing, and them stepping into leadership positions even newer, so it is not surprising that they make up a minority of leaders of men led enterprises that have been around for decades.

So, you see to say "let's take a sample of the most successful companies in the world and see how many are led by women." is an unfair examination. Not to mention that the men who lead them are themselves are minority within the larger male group.

Also, that analysis leaves out the fact that these are highly competitive environments where only a few make it. Add in the fact that women, being a minority already in such contexts, on average choose to jump ship and go build a family or something by the time they're between 30-35, you'll get an even smaller group of women from which to work from.

Women entering the workforce is not relatively new. I'm not sure why people are doing somersaults in order to avoid the fact that discrimination exists. Let's move away from simply the topic of women, look up how many black Fortune 500 CEOs there are. Go find out how many Hispanic ones there are. Asian ones. Let me know what you find. You're being honest with yourself you're going to find that the majority of CEOs are straight white dudes. Like way waaaay disproportionate to the demographics of the United States.

Now you can say "well that's because black people, gay people, hispanic people, asian people, women etc aren't qualified for those jobs or aren't applying for them" or you can admit that there's some sort of bias in promotion/hiring happening. A lot of people in this tread seem to be saying the former, which is why this problem continues to exist.

[Grimbold21]

Women entering the workforce is not relatively new. I'm not sure why people are doing somersaults in order to avoid the fact that discrimination exists. Let's move away from simply the topic of women, look up how many black Fortune 500 CEOs there are. Go find out how many Hispanic ones there are. Asian ones. Let me know what you find. You're being honest with yourself you're going to find that the majority of CEOs are straight white dudes. Like way waaaay disproportionate to the demographics of the United States.

Now you can say "well that's because black people, gay people, hispanic people, asian people, women etc aren't qualified for those jobs or aren't applying for them" or you can admit that there's some sort of bias in promotion/hiring happening. A lot of people in this tread seem to be saying the former, which is why this problem continues to exist.

I think you'll find that no one is dismissing the existence of discrimination.
What is being contended is that discrimination is the primary factor explaining numerical discrepancies which are in fact a multi varied issued.

[Elim Garak]

I'm not sure why people are doing somersaults in order to avoid the fact that discrimination exists.

Cut the crap, no one claims it doesn't exist, stop doing pole-vaults trying to make it a thing.

Now you can say "well that's because black people, gay people, hispanic people, asian people, women etc aren't qualified for those jobs or aren't applying for them"

No one lumps ethnicity, sex and sexual orientation together either. Well, 'cept for you.

or you can admit that there's some sort of bias in promotion/hiring happening. A lot of people in this tread seem to be saying the former, which is why this problem continues to exist.

Oh there's bias. You know what it is? You think you do but you don't. Listen closely:
They want to hire the best employee for the least cash money

Don't tell anyone, it's a secret.

[andrewjoy]

Considering earnings on average are higher for young women over young men ( the EARNINGS gap is the other way around later in life) is it not time for women to pay up ?

[Unholyground]

I never really went on dinner dates very often, women used to pick me up and take me out, I would pay for the movies most of the time then we would go back to my place for fun times lol. Or we would just stay in altogether, I think they all wanted me for my body.

[Illiterate]

Women entering the workforce is not relatively new. I'm not sure why people are doing somersaults in order to avoid the fact that discrimination exists. Let's move away from simply the topic of women, look up how many black Fortune 500 CEOs there are. Go find out how many Hispanic ones there are. Asian ones. Let me know what you find. You're being honest with yourself you're going to find that the majority of CEOs are straight white dudes. Like way waaaay disproportionate to the demographics of the United States.

Now you can say "well that's because black people, gay people, hispanic people, asian people, women etc aren't qualified for those jobs or aren't applying for them" or you can admit that there's some sort of bias in promotion/hiring happening. A lot of people in this tread seem to be saying the former, which is why this problem continues to exist.

Discrimination doesn't exist. There are more white males in positions of leadership because they aspire and go for those positions. They go to school instead of taking the easy way out of pushing drugs in the hood while mooching welfare. Same thing with women, except those are more biological differences that account for it. Stop pushing fake news.

And the gays are something like 1% of the population. Why are you even bringing them up?

[Mistame]

Well I mean... even when women don't look great, they still look better than men who don't look great and I don't think you have to be a homosexual or bisexual to feel that way.

No, you're just suffering from the same bias I mentioned, as this statement is patently false.

Like 2 of the guys made an effort to look decent. 2 of the girls were red hot.

Your standards are pretty low if you think even one of them is "red hot".

But I bet you I could have made all of those guys look better in less than 20 minutes. Even better than that with an hour if you put me next to a thrift store or a ross dress for less. Like it's honestly sad how dudes present themselves.

Women generally take the time to improve their appearance for even the most mundane of things. Men generally don't care, even for important events. Hell, men would get married and go out on dates in blue jeans and T-shirt if they could get away with it. This is a wiring thing, not a "slob" or "lazy" thing. So yeah, if you pull a bunch of random people off the street for something like this, it's almost guaranteed that women are going to be more "dressed up" than men.

How oblivious do you have to be to show up to a show like that looking like that hate crime church shooter? You could shave this dude's head, get him a trucker cap, a bomber jacket, some fuckin jeans and some boots and he'd at least look like he was somebody's dad instead of looking like the last time he was in pussy was when the doctors evicted him from his mom's cooter.

And this piece of judgmental drivel is what shuts down your entire point for the nonsense that it is. It's the equivalent of calling a woman in a skirt a "slut".

[Malikath]

It's almost like...if you worked the same jobs and the same hours as men, you'd be paid the same. Shocking, right? But it must be easier to just push conspiracy theories instead of looking at the truth.

for most gen-oter's the truth is basically the sun to their vampirism.
who cares about the context of hours worked vs. payment earned to show the hourly wage plain and naked.

[nyeh]

And this piece of judgmental drivel is what shuts down your entire point for the nonsense that it is. It's the equivalent of calling a woman in a skirt a "slut".

lol are you serious? look at the manlet LOL with that dumb ass toboggan and jacket on in the middle of summer. he would have looked 10x better if he just wore like... a white spalding shirt and black cargo pants that fit him... take the piercing out and he might actually look like a person instead of a yeeted up fuckin' goat.

even as the best looking guy you wouldn't catch me dead in my grave wearing that shirt and those pants with those ugly ass shoes. this ain't space jam my nigga, you ain't finna dunk on nobody while you out on a date!

don't even get me started on the guy in the 101 dalmatians shirt that's more queer than a $3 bill. dude looks like his mom dressed him and he's roleplaying a 5 year old but mad he's a 5 LOL.

Your standards are pretty low if you think even one of them is "red hot".

They could have dressed better but they were very beautiful women. If my standards are low I don't want to know what high is because I'm probably never gonna fuck Jennifer Aniston.