Mythic lockouts should be removed the moment cross-realm is activated

[Ealyssa]

And all those guilds struggle, trust me. Any guild rank 1000+ will struggle to keep progressing towards the end of a raid tier because I large part of their playerbase isn't as dedicated/motivated as they should be.

Because pugs are doing better in Mythic ??? No, they aren't. Your argumentation is pointless.

[Khallid]

Guild sucks dude. Unless you are in the 1st kill race top tier guilds, Guild are ALWAYS bad since they are NOT designed for raiding but for socializing.

It is wrong to join a guild for raiding since guild is NEVER meant to progress.

Guilds are about whatever they choose to be. My guild is entirely raid-focused and a bit antisocial.

What do you define as progress? Guilds learn and progressively kill more bosses with time. Pugs are the ones that don't progress, since every time you have a random group which may or may not know how to do the bosses.

[willemh]

So you think players who aren't dedicated/motivated enough in a guild where mostly all they have to do is turn up because a raid leader organises everything else are more likely to log in, fuck around finding a PUG, then do the raid with people who have never grouped before and likely have less communication/instinctual trust and be more efficient than a guild group would be?

Are you high? I can only assume you are high.

Mythic raids are designed for guilds and guilds are and always will be far more successful at mythic content than pugs will be even with the lockout removed. If you're in a guild and can't communicate/work together to clear content, that's just because it's a bad guild but doesn't mean all guilds are bad. There are literally thousands that clear mythic content on a regular basis, go find one and join them.

I tried to explain there are many players in WoW that no longer want to play on a set schedule, for them gaming is something they do whenever they have 'nothing better to do'. Many of these players have the quality and gear to kill at least the first half mythic bosses in a very efficient manner without many wipes by the time the mythic raid opens cross realm (halfway a tier) . Frankly, the first mythic bosses really arn't hard in any way by the time you reach them halfway a tier with 380+ gear. At that point you don't need much 'dedication' or 'motivation' to kill these bosses.

And that is precisely what I want, kill whatever I can kill efficiently (without full evenings of wipes). If you know a guild that stops progression halfway a tier and goes back to a 'farm' schedule because the next boss they reach requires quite a few too many wipes to kill with current gear/without nerfs to that boss and ontop of that allows me to join/leave the raid whenever I feel like raiding, please let me know. But trust me, there aren't thousands. I don't want to wipe for weeks on bosses I clearly don't have enough gear/skill for to kill, and that is precisely what any rank 1000+ guild is doing, they farm 1 day, bash their heads against a wall the other 2 days and maybe kill a new boss every 2 weeks, while gearing countless new trials to replace every single raider that quits towards the end of a tier. No thanks I pass for that. The fact you're asking me if I'm high, but then continue to state there are thousands of guilds that clear mythic content in an efficient manner just shows how wrong you are.

[BananaHandsB]

After succesfully pugging Taloc and Mother for like 6 weeks straight I got into a group where 4 friends who 'didnt need mother' left straight after Taloc even tho it was clearly advertised as a Taloc+Mother run. Its actually super frustrating to be saved to a lockout and have 0 chances of killing mother this week.

I believe when cross realm gets activated (making it puggable content) the lockout should be removed. It makes 0 sense to lock people out because of the shit move of a few randoms.

There are many players around that have the quality to raid mythic, but not the time to do it on a shedule. Why not allow those players a decent chance progressing at their own pace?

It's an ok idea, but that would lead to some potential abuse of the loot system. Split runs, boss targeting for bonus rolls, etc. I'm not sure if that's really an issue at this point in the tier though. Would essentially be a soft nerf for mythic guilds who haven't cleared yet as they could target bosses and kill them repeatedly for bonus rolls+alt splits to curb some bad luck players may have had so far missing a piece here or there.

- - - Updated - - -

And all those guilds struggle, trust me. Any guild rank 1000+ will struggle to keep progressing towards the end of a raid tier because I large part of their playerbase isn't as dedicated/motivated as they should be.

Not true at all. Find a guild with good history and good leadership who knows how to recruit like-minded people, and it's not a struggle at all, it's fun, that's why we do it. It's really not that complex. I'm an officer in a mythic raiding guild that raids only 6 hours a week and has been doing that together for about 5 years, many of the players having histories that go back even further. It takes us months to clear a mythic tier, but we make constant, steady progress and we recruit people who understand that. Our players are all adults with lives, jobs and limited time, but who enjoy committing 2 nights a week to getting away from it all and raiding with friends. We come to raid prepared and focused, and we always manage to get cutting edge before the next tier comes out.

We've watched many a guild rise and fall on our server, so I understand why you may think that, but it's simply not true for all 1000+ guilds.

[Gorsameth]

They did alive and mythic lockout killed them.

Raiding guilds should ALL disban imo. They are the most drama kings when they come for raiding. Guilds are designed for socializing NOT raiding.

You talk as if there was a time where (Mythic) lockouts did not exist.

[Gasparde]

Ok, let me explain how bad guilds are.

People absent -> no progress -> good players go to better guilds -> original guild disbans -> Wasting time for everyone + more people afking + destroy community

Infinite Cycles.

THAT FACT IS GUILDS ARE INEFFICIENT.

That's not a guild, that's a group of 3 like-minded individuals with 17 random fuckers - it's a pug with a fancy name.
You can't pick the most disfunctional display of the guild system and act like it's an accurate representation of what guilds are.
'Guilds' in your example don't work because everyone in there has a pug mentality, which is a pretty poor excuse for why 'guilds' aren't working.

[Tarba]

Replace raid lockout with a personal lockout.

You can't join a mythic on Taloc if you had done mother. But you can join if they are after mother.
So, no loot abuse possibility.

[willemh]

Not true at all. Find a guild with good history and good leadership who knows how to recruit like-minded people, and it's not a struggle at all, it's fun, that's why we do it. It's really not that complex. I'm an officer in a mythic raiding guild that raids only 6 hours a week and has been doing that together for about 5 years, many of the players having histories that go back even further. It takes us months to clear a mythic tier, but we make constant, steady progress and we recruit people who understand that. Our players are all adults with lives, jobs and limited time, but who enjoy committing 2 nights a week to getting away from it all and raiding with friends. We come to raid prepared and focused, and we always manage to get cutting edge before the next tier comes out.

We've watched many a guild rise and fall on our server, so I understand why you may think that, but it's simply not true for all 1000+ guilds.

As you said, you commit 2 nights a week, for the duration of a full raid tier, which means months of countless of hours of wiping on 'progress' bosses. I dont want to go home with 'tonight I have to raid' in my head after work. I don't ever want to say to my friends 'tonight I have to raid'. I want to do bosses at a gearlevel/skill level where I know I can kill them within 10 attempts, and I want to do so whenever I feel like it, not when I 'have to'. The problem is that many of the early mythic bosses fall into that '10 attempts' category halfway a tier when cross-realm opens, and I see 0 reason for Blizzard to keep ancient systems in place that make my life hard.

[rbigrq]

That's not a guild, that's a group of 3 like-minded individuals with 17 random fuckers - it's a pug with a fancy name.
You can't pick the most disfunctional display of the guild system and act like it's an accurate representation of what guilds are.
'Guilds' in your example don't work because everyone in there has a pug mentality, which is a pretty poor excuse for why 'guilds' aren't working.

Sorry PUGs never have issues of absent.

[foreversilenced]

I disagree. Keep the lock out and also add it to heroic and normal so people have to think about what they are doing instead of cruising around 300 groups and leaving raid early.

[Maquegyver]

I've seen some dumb threads but this one is really special. I'm sorry you are so toxic that no good guilds will invite you. As you have described guilds that is the only possible answer to explain your bottom 1% experience within guilds.

[Bhorin]

Really the only downside to personal lockouts is guilds selling full runs as they can kill the bosses multiple times per week, but I don't really view that as a big issue and definitely worth the QoL of being able to efficiently pug mythic.

[Deleted]

Really the only downside to personal lockouts is guilds selling full runs as they can kill the bosses multiple times per week, but I don't really view that as a big issue and definitely worth the QoL of being able to efficiently pug mythic.

Yeah but it would also plummet the price it cost for those boost because atm ghuun mythic by itself goes for millions of gold so I don't think it will matter too much.

[netherflame]

Last thing you want is people leaving after one wipe.

Remove the lockout, and it will be unbearable. When people are saved, they take it more seriously.

^^^^The last part is 100% correct, its like when you watch how people leave apartments that they rent vs a place that they own. Miraculously the place that they own isn't a total dump and they keep cleaning it.

[Bhorin]

^^^^The last part is 100% correct, its like when you watch how people leave apartments that they rent vs a place that they own. Miraculously the place that they own isn't a total dump and they keep cleaning it.

I'd rather have people who leave after a wipe then being stuck with a lockout with 2 dead that no one wants to join because they have their own lock for the first 2 or don't want to get locked when they haven't done the first 2. Finding a new person isn't that hard (if they aren't locked to an ID) but the converse is not true.

[Thoaeealonsus]

casually reading this thread while only really noticing rbigrq, quite honestly due to the amount of pure bollocks that comes from him. quite amazed anyone takes him serious, he didnt even bother to make an actual name to "troll" / "Create drama" with. would be nice if mmo champ could simply IP ban people somehow, no tech guy but that would be pretty neat!

as to the mythic lockouts, its a love/hate relationship tbh, its there for a reason, to somewhat gate the content, lets say theres a guild thats stuck on mythrax, but really want cutting edge, so they simply pay a guy with a 7/8 save to get to Ghuun mythic, obviously ghuun is "harder" than mythrax, but technically that guild shouldnt be on ghuun, as they havnt killed mythrax, so how is that fair to everyone else that had to actually progress is? personally i think they should stay. but then agian, who are you kidding, they are not going to remove mythic lockouts, theres simply no chance in hell that will happen, its one of the core parts of Raiding.

obviously you are entitled to an opinion. but in my opinion people are hate guilds have either been unlucky with guilds cause sure.. theres plenty of shitty guilds out there, progress wise and socially, but it all deepends on the people dont it. top 100 guy might feel the top 200 guys are in shitty guilds where the top 200 guys are actually really happy where they are. they like the people, they like the progress they got with the hours per week they use. so lets not "shit" on people just cause they are happy with where they are if they are in a guild or not.

if you dont like how most pugs are at the moment, disbanding at mother and such, surely you could just make your own group, its still a pug, but you can choose the players, after all, with mythic open Crossrealm, its not very hard to find people before the weekend each week.
surely that would solve your problem. and if you cant be bothered to make your own group or simply dont have the time, perhaps world of warcraft just aint the game for you, its an MMORPG after all, and these kinda games tend to "require" alot more hours than other games, it is what it is.

games change, people change, Society changes, you mostly just have to adapt with it or let it go even tho it might be hard cause you put so many hours into a game you probably love, and think its sad to see how its changing. every person to their own ^^
and if Lappee thats been posting in this thread is the Actual Paragon lappee, he knows what he is on about when it comes to top tier guilds, surely you know this, and the rest of us are everything between rank 2-999999999999999 in the world!

Edit: Sorry for the awful wall of text

[rbigrq]

casually reading this thread while only really noticing rbigrq, quite honestly due to the amount of pure bollocks that comes from him. quite amazed anyone takes him serious, he didnt even bother to make an actual name to "troll" / "Create drama" with. would be nice if mmo champ could simply IP ban people somehow, no tech guy but that would be pretty neat!

as to the mythic lockouts, its a love/hate relationship tbh, its there for a reason, to somewhat gate the content, lets say theres a guild thats stuck on mythrax, but really want cutting edge, so they simply pay a guy with a 7/8 save to get to Ghuun mythic, obviously ghuun is "harder" than mythrax, but technically that guild shouldnt be on ghuun, as they havnt killed mythrax, so how is that fair to everyone else that had to actually progress is? personally i think they should stay. but then agian, who are you kidding, they are not going to remove mythic lockouts, theres simply no chance in hell that will happen, its one of the core parts of Raiding.

obviously you are entitled to an opinion. but in my opinion people are hate guilds have either been unlucky with guilds cause sure.. theres plenty of shitty guilds out there, progress wise and socially, but it all deepends on the people dont it. top 100 guy might feel the top 200 guys are in shitty guilds where the top 200 guys are actually really happy where they are. they like the people, they like the progress they got with the hours per week they use. so lets not "shit" on people just cause they are happy with where they are if they are in a guild or not.

if you dont like how most pugs are at the moment, disbanding at mother and such, surely you could just make your own group, its still a pug, but you can choose the players, after all, with mythic open Crossrealm, its not very hard to find people before the weekend each week.
surely that would solve your problem. and if you cant be bothered to make your own group or simply dont have the time, perhaps world of warcraft just aint the game for you, its an MMORPG after all, and these kinda games tend to "require" alot more hours than other games, it is what it is.

games change, people change, Society changes, you mostly just have to adapt with it or let it go even tho it might be hard cause you put so many hours into a game you probably love, and think its sad to see how its changing. every person to their own ^^
and if Lappee thats been posting in this thread is the Actual Paragon lappee, he knows what he is on about when it comes to top tier guilds, surely you know this, and the rest of us are everything between rank 2-999999999999999 in the world!

Edit: Sorry for the awful wall of text

You don't see how many guilds are just no lifers who divorce in order to progress. That is the problem of retail wow.

Guilds are a bunch of shit show. Sorry. That is the fact. Kill guilds = the revival of wow.

[Evilmoo]

As you said, you commit 2 nights a week, for the duration of a full raid tier, which means months of countless of hours of wiping on 'progress' bosses. I dont want to go home with 'tonight I have to raid' in my head after work. I don't ever want to say to my friends 'tonight I have to raid'. I want to do bosses at a gearlevel/skill level where I know I can kill them within 10 attempts, and I want to do so whenever I feel like it, not when I 'have to'. The problem is that many of the early mythic bosses fall into that '10 attempts' category halfway a tier when cross-realm opens, and I see 0 reason for Blizzard to keep ancient systems in place that make my life hard.

We get it, you don't like challenge, you prefer to kill bosses when you massively overgear them and they provide little to no resistance, Blizzard designed LFR to cater players just like you, stick to it, you'll need no guild, no organisational structure, barely any effort and you'll see all content.