Asmongold: "There is nothing fun left to do in this game anymore"

[Deleted]

Yes, but my point is that those decisions are heavily influenced by the feedback Blizzard has received. WoD happened because of player feedback in MoP, WoD was the perfect game if you took all the bandwagon shit that was flung around the general forums throughout all of MoP.

We;
-Don't want to feel forced to earn reputation with factions for "mandatory" pre-raid gear or bonuses
-Don't want to spend dozens and dozens of hours to max out professions
-Don't want mandatory weekly "chores" like capping Valor
-Don't want to be forced to run LFR (chance to finish tier sets)
-Want rewards from non-raid content to be mainly cosmetic and optional

If you listen to players, mostly instant gratification feedback, enough you get what the game has become. There are no major goals to work towards. You can see the entire game at the ilvl required to go into LFR. The only type of content that'll ever make you properly focus in order to succeed, is high level M+ or premade raids, because everything else is made (by popular demand) to be fast and easy. Now, we have a playerbase left, those who survived WoD, that hate anything that takes more than 2 hours. All world content, and queued content must be clearable in 15-30 minutes and there shouldn't be any risk of failure. Ever.

So yes, Blizzard has created the no-patience, rush style of gameplay, by listening to players who at their core doesn't enjoy how MMORPGs are meant to be. And now those players are the majority, that quickly lashes out whenever Blizzard tries to go back to what used to keep players occupied for longer.
But you can't have a select few experiments of slower paced reward systems, in a game where overall, you pick up 2-3 slight upgrades per hour.

Blizzard has painted themselves into a corner, completely. Sad thing is that what I described above is apparently too complex. How can fewer rewards be more enjoyable in the long run? Well for one thing, if you genuinely need those select few rewards to progress (instead of just obliterating the same content every so slightly faster), then you're willing to spend time and effort to get it. None of that is left in the game, because the players who are left aren't the types willing to go that distance for rewards. The game is trying to be an MMORPG and an ARPG at the same time and it simply doesn't work. The ARPG players hate anything that takes time, and the MMORPG players get tired of getting showered in items for one afternoons worth of "effort" in brainless easy content.

They dont listen to players. They look at data like participation and desing game around this data. They completly ignore actual reasons why different players play different content. Look at LFR. It has high participation but it is most boring and faceroll snooz fest. Nobady enyoj doing LFR everyone just want to do be done with it. But Blizz see high parcipation as players doing it for afk free titanforget gear or w/e and think system is ok nothing wrong here. Or islands. Boring as *** but it os only good source of ap so again same scenario. And if something have low participation blizzard throw in mandatory rewards.

LFR in WoD was dead. Nobady was doing it as gear from WoD LFR was garbage. So what Blizzard did was make LFR only good source of valor and suddenly everyone start doing it again. Yes people do taht content but nobady is having fun. Which is somethig what can keep players playing only for so long and BFA is where players got sick of it alredy. When Blizzard will focus again on what is fun, epic, exciting and interesting than game will get better. Till then keep participating in boring content.

[Drsaske]

[/QUOTE]
I don't know if you're trolling but none of those features are new. I've done bg's and arena since their inception, it gets old after a while. Similarly anyone who did the M+ grind in legion will be burned out by now.[/QUOTE]

So it needs to be new to get u attached? There is a reason no1 plays all the "next gen mmos" like aion,rift, wildstar and whatever else shitty game there was that was dead after a few weeks.... Raiding and high M+ Key (plus pvp ofc) are the KEY FEATURES of WoW, they will never leave and they wont change the way u probably want them to. But by what u are saying, and asmongoof too, i see that u NEVER did any Server First/Region first/ or probably even a single kill before the next patch, nor any even semi High key in M+, the Grind in Legion sucked, ofc....But doing 25 and higher Keys was just so much Fun no other MMO had ever given to some1.

[Thomygnomi]

Yes, but my point is that those decisions are heavily influenced by the feedback Blizzard has received. WoD happened because of player feedback in MoP, WoD was the perfect game if you took all the bandwagon shit that was flung around the general forums throughout all of MoP.

We;
-Don't want to feel forced to earn reputation with factions for "mandatory" pre-raid gear or bonuses
-Don't want to spend dozens and dozens of hours to max out professions
-Don't want mandatory weekly "chores" like capping Valor
-Don't want to be forced to run LFR (chance to finish tier sets)
-Want rewards from non-raid content to be mainly cosmetic and optional

If you listen to players, mostly instant gratification feedback, enough you get what the game has become. There are no major goals to work towards. You can see the entire game at the ilvl required to go into LFR. The only type of content that'll ever make you properly focus in order to succeed, is high level M+ or premade raids, because everything else is made (by popular demand) to be fast and easy. Now, we have a playerbase left, those who survived WoD, that hate anything that takes more than 2 hours. All world content, and queued content must be clearable in 15-30 minutes and there shouldn't be any risk of failure. Ever.

So yes, Blizzard has created the no-patience, rush style of gameplay, by listening to players who at their core doesn't enjoy how MMORPGs are meant to be. And now those players are the majority, that quickly lashes out whenever Blizzard tries to go back to what used to keep players occupied for longer.
But you can't have a select few experiments of slower paced reward systems, in a game where overall, you pick up 2-3 slight upgrades per hour.

Blizzard has painted themselves into a corner, completely. Sad thing is that what I described above is apparently too complex. How can fewer rewards be more enjoyable in the long run? Well for one thing, if you genuinely need those select few rewards to progress (instead of just obliterating the same content every so slightly faster), then you're willing to spend time and effort to get it. None of that is left in the game, because the players who are left aren't the types willing to go that distance for rewards. The game is trying to be an MMORPG and an ARPG at the same time and it simply doesn't work. The ARPG players hate anything that takes time, and the MMORPG players get tired of getting showered in items for one afternoons worth of "effort" in brainless easy content.

You point out my major criticism around the game ..... and reversed it.

Everything goes to fast in the game. Starting with combat, leveling, professions, gearing, reputation.
Gearing in specially should be much more slower. Most of the gamers want the feeling back, that if a item drops its nearly always worth it. Not waiting for the titanforge.

[Eleccybubb]

So it needs to be new to get u attached? There is a reason no1 plays all the "next gen mmos" like aion,rift, wildstar and whatever else shitty game there was that was dead after a few weeks.... Raiding and high M+ Key (plus pvp ofc) are the KEY FEATURES of WoW, they will never leave and they wont change the way u probably want them to. But by what u are saying, and asmongoof too, i see that u NEVER did any Server First/Region first/ or probably even a single kill before the next patch, nor any even semi High key in M+, the Grind in Legion sucked, ofc....But doing 25 and higher Keys was just so much Fun no other MMO had ever given to some1.

There are plenty of MMOS after WoW that are still going well.

FF14, ESO and GW2 spring immediately to mind.

Or are you one of the crowd that thinks "if it doesn't have as many players as WoW then it sucks"?

You literally listed 3 terrible/mismanaged MMOs to fit your discussion point here. Nothing more.

[crusadernero]

well in Legion we were farming AP like madmen and when it endend and BfA came along, it was more of just that. Another AP farm for a neck. The AP/Azerite system is shite compared to Legion with AP/artifact weps, but its the same thing.

Dungeons, raids, bgs, WQs are all the same as ever before. Sure new dungeon, raid and WQs, but its more of the same. They look different, but work the same way. PVP is the same BGs as we have had for years.

The dungeons feels so boring, cant put my finger on it. I even enjoyed doing dungeons in WOD, but in BfA.. rather just do something else.

When most of the core features in wow is more or less the same thing every new xpac, there needs to be something else that keeps players around. Better gameplay and reward structure might be it.

I have four lvl 120 and all of them reached ilevel 360 in no time. It went from shit geared to nice geared in few hours. THEN suddenly the ilevel gear climb gets steep and you gotta repeat the same content over and over again for minimal gear reward(Maybe a few ilevels).

You get everything upfront and instant at 120, but it gets frustrating very quickly. Would much rather prefer a slower paced reward structure, where when you did get a item it ment something.

We get so much gear tossed at us its insane. I have never had so much enchanting mats like I do now. I enchant all my chars and sell stuff on AH without the need to buy anything.

[Kaver]

I don't follow Asmongold's videos (have watched 1 or 2 at max although YouTube always tries to get me to watch them) but I have to agree on the current state of the game.
The only things I still do are Island expeditions till cap, the one M+10 I have to do for the chest, checking my auctions and running Uldir hc and myth (however of the three raid days my guild has one has already been cancelled the last two weeks due to lack of participation).

This expansion just feels terribly bland.

P.s. Oh yeah, farming old content for mounts which is more fun than most of the current one.

And do you actually enjoy Island Expeditions? I find it a bit worrying that Blizzard can’t make more engaging and challenging content. The new content types in BFA (Warfronts and Island Expeditions) are not engaging at all. I’m not sure how Blizzard think content like that increase the value of the game. Hopefully they will improve those but they need to increase the quality of content when it is released. Otherwise I rather have them focus more ressources on an extra raid or something they know will work.

[crusadernero]

And do you actually enjoy Island Expeditions? I find it a bit worrying that Blizzard can’t make more engaging and challenging content. The new content types in BFA (Warfronts and Island Expeditions) are not engaging at all. I’m not sure how Blizzard think content like that increase the value of the game. Hopefully they will improve those but they need to increase the quality of content when it is released. Otherwise I rather have them focus more ressources on an extra raid or something they know will work.

IE sounded cool when they announced it, much like warmode sounded awesome. Its clear the AI is not there yet, but they are working on improving the AI in wow. Soon we will get to do bgs with AI also. Im betting it will be more of that in the future. Same content types and amount, but withe the options to do raids, dungeons, IE, warfronts, bgs with AI.

Oh I got a good idea, unrelated to this thread. For warmode - maybe it would be cool if people who have warmode turned on could hire AI mobs to protect them?

[Galathir]

And do you actually enjoy Island Expeditions? I find it a bit worrying that Blizzard can’t make more engaging and challenging content. The new content types in BFA (Warfronts and Island Expeditions) are not engaging at all. I’m not sure how Blizzard think content like that increase the value of the game. Hopefully they will improve those but they need to increase the quality of content when it is released. Otherwise I rather have them focus more ressources on an extra raid or something they know will work.

I am the type to rather take things my pace. I like raiding and (some) world quests. However both Mythic+ and Island Expeditions force people to rush so no, I don't enjoy them. Both are a chore for me.

I think Warfronts are somewhere in the middle.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

They just need to let the game progress past level 100. They are trying way to hard to let an expansion level up and progress itself only to have you degress back to level 100 in the next and repeat. The first couple times it was excused as resetting the game after a decade of bloat and while I was disappointed I could see reason. Now it has become a very obvious case of lazy design where they can just hit the reset botton every expansion back to 100 and rerelease things from the past as "new" things. It is garbage class design and philosophy. That is the core of this game. If that is trash like it has been (at least until you have repowered back up at the end of expansions) then the game will always feel bad.

[MasterHamster]

You point out my major criticism around the game ..... and reversed it.

Everything goes to fast in the game. Starting with combat, leveling, professions, gearing, reputation.
Gearing in specially should be much more slower. Most of the gamers want the feeling back, that if a item drops its nearly always worth it. Not waiting for the titanforge.

Just rhetoric, I took what kept being flung around at the time and we then got WoD that was pretty much "if you don't raid or just enjoy leveling alts, do something else". WoD had no tangible goals if you didn't raid because of a bunch of changes that might sound good on paper. But players NEED lengthy tasks to do, it paces content better, and gives rewards proper value. Getting epics shot at you for no effort makes the "rewards" feel anything but.

The game needs to slow down, the game needs more long-term goals. World content needs to be relatively tough even in decent gear if you're not careful, finishing zones should reward a pre-raid item that can't be replaced by a random reward from a weekly chest at the beginning of an expansion. Professions needs to take a long time to max out because that gives you some form of feeling of accomplishment when you're one of those who kept at it. If everyone can do everything no one can be special, or stand out.

Tier sets give everyone tangible goals to shoot for, no matter how they are "forced" to acquire it.
Having weekly currencies to cap gives you a goal for each character.

WoW has forgotten how to MMORPG, it's that simple really. It's an ARPG that is desperately trying to find enough ways to get impatient, entitled players to not become bored enough to quit. Sadly BFA is shaping up to be another perfect storm. Just a few months into the expansion and it feels like a content draught. I have no goals when I log on, because simply getting better gear to do the same brainless easy content even easier isn't a satisfying experience. For that to be satisfying, the content must be hard from the beginning, or else there's no progression.

[crusadernero]

Just rhetoric, I took what kept being flung around at the time and we then got WoD that was pretty much "if you don't raid or just enjoy leveling alts, do something else". WoD had no tangible goals if you didn't raid because of a bunch of changes that might sound good on paper. But players NEED lengthy tasks to do, it paces content better, and gives rewards proper value. Getting epics shot at you for no effort makes the "rewards" feel anything but.

The game needs to slow down, the game needs more long-term goals. World content needs to be relatively tough even in decent gear if you're not careful, finishing zones should reward a pre-raid item that can't be replaced by a random reward from a weekly chest at the beginning of an expansion. Professions needs to take a long time to max out because that gives you some form of feeling of accomplishment when you're one of those who kept at it. If everyone can do everything no one can be special, or stand out.

Tier sets give everyone tangible goals to shoot for, no matter how they are "forced" to acquire it.
Having weekly currencies to cap gives you a goal for each character.

WoW has forgotten how to MMORPG, it's that simple really. It's an ARPG that is desperately trying to find enough ways to get impatient, entitled players to not become bored enough to quit. Sadly BFA is shaping up to be another perfect storm. Just a few months into the expansion and it feels like a content draught. I have no goals when I log on, because simply getting better gear to do the same brainless easy content even easier isn't a satisfying experience. For that to be satisfying, the content must be hard from the beginning, or else there's no progression.

Yup. The gear/Reward progression must be harder the minute you reach 120, not after reaching ilevel 355-360+.

getting items these days means nothing and all you are left with is the weekly chestslotmachine.

Im also all for the slowing down of the game and having long term goals to strive for. Im saying this as someone who dont have unlimited time to play.

Id rather work for something over many months than getting everything done in a week.

[Kaver]

IE sounded cool when they announced it, much like warmode sounded awesome. Its clear the AI is not there yet, but they are working on improving the AI in wow. Soon we will get to do bgs with AI also. Im betting it will be more of that in the future. Same content types and amount, but withe the options to do raids, dungeons, IE, warfronts, bgs with AI.

Oh I got a good idea, unrelated to this thread. For warmode - maybe it would be cool if people who have warmode turned on could hire AI mobs to protect them?

I just wish they would work on it more and test it more BEFORE they release it. Content which is so far from the vision shouldn’t be release. Make it work and then release it.

[crusadernero]

I just wish they would work on it more and test it more BEFORE they release it. Content which is so far from the vision shouldn’t be release. Make it work and then release it.

Agreed. That used to be the Blizzard way to. They released stuff when they were 100% it would be good, without a doubt.

the introduction of more AIs is probably a way to make players stay subbed longer without the need of joining a guild/community or wait for queue times. Fast pased quick content.

[Deleted]

There's hardly anyone who genuinely quit in cata still posting here. That was almost a decade ago, why make up such nonsense? The saltiness in these threads always comes from fanboys like you who take personal offence whenever anyone criticises activision.

I quit in October, I'm sure the vast majority of critics here quit at some point in BFA, because people who didn't take an interest in BFA likely have no interest in posting here either. As someone who bought the latest WoW product - and who may re-sub should the game improve - the opinions of players like me are just as important as any fanboy buying 6 month subs like a good obedient activision wallet.



I don't know if you're trolling but none of those features are new. I've done bg's and arena since their inception, it gets old after a while. Similarly anyone who did the M+ grind in legion will be burned out by now.

Kibda proving my point there bun

[Chrno]

There's hardly anyone who genuinely quit in cata still posting here. That was almost a decade ago, why make up such nonsense? The saltiness in these threads always comes from fanboys like you who take personal offence whenever anyone criticises activision.

I quit in October, I'm sure the vast majority of critics here quit at some point in BFA, because people who didn't take an interest in BFA likely have no interest in posting here either. As someone who bought the latest WoW product - and who may re-sub should the game improve - the opinions of players like me are just as important as any fanboy buying 6 month subs like a good obedient activision wallet.

After i quit in cataclysm i have only played the end of WoD and start of Legion (about a year).
I still enjoy reading some posts every few months =)

[kamuimac]

And do you actually enjoy Island Expeditions? I find it a bit worrying that Blizzard can’t make more engaging and challenging content. The new content types in BFA (Warfronts and Island Expeditions) are not engaging at all. I’m not sure how Blizzard think content like that increase the value of the game. Hopefully they will improve those but they need to increase the quality of content when it is released. Otherwise I rather have them focus more ressources on an extra raid or something they know will work.

they are as engaging as raiding and dungeons . there is only 1 difference.

gear

remove gear from dungeons and raids and its dead in a week.

put in gear in islands - people will farm them forever.

simple like that

[Kaver]

they are as engaging as raiding and dungeons . there is only 1 difference.

gear

remove gear from dungeons and raids and its dead in a week.

put in gear in islands - people will farm them forever.

simple like that

For me, how engaging content is depends very much on how challenging it is. Mythic Raiding and high M+ are engaging because you have to put in a lot effort to complete it.

However, I completely agree with you if you don’t do Mythic raiding or high M+ keys.

[Zequill]

Grats on his +22, not sure if he found it fun but at least he found something to do.

[Valysar]

Cool, he can unsuscribe now and stop doing wow videos.

[Drsaske]

There are plenty of MMOS after WoW that are still going well.

FF14, ESO and GW2 spring immediately to mind.

Or are you one of the crowd that thinks "if it doesn't have as many players as WoW then it sucks"?

You literally listed 3 terrible/mismanaged MMOs to fit your discussion point here. Nothing more.

So why does a game have little to no players? Oh ye, because it sucks. I listed the three BIGGEST contenders for a decent MMO in the past. And u listed 3 Games that barely any1 plays AT ALL, i must search up the latest numbers but from what i remember from 2017 even LotRO (THE shittiest MMO i ever played) even has more players than the 3 you listed. Ofc there are always ppl that like it, there are also ppl that like playing Dota2, yet the game still sucks, and having a player base in some specific part of the World doesnt make the Game decent all of a Sudden.

And i never said WoW is perfect, it has been way better in the past and could do so much more stuff better. But as a player like Asmongoof that plays not even 50% of the Game, i would never say "there is nothing fun left do do" because most of the Stuff that SHOULD make fun in WoW, he never even tried.