It’s simple: If you’re unhappy, unsub.

[predasmoke3]

Exactly this.

And for the "but what about my guild/friends?" issue, just as OP said, Discord exists. Get everyone on there and keep in touch. If you are only friends with someone because you raid Mythic 2-3 times a week with them but have no interaction with them outside of that, it's not really a friendship, that's a colleague. If they don't want to join a Discord with you then do you really want to keep paying for and playing something you don't enjoy to keep playing with people who aren't really interested in talking to you outside the game?

I've personally had loads of "friends" in various games over the years that I had a great time with in that game but when it came to moving onto something else, they weren't interested in keeping in touch and that was fine. I just moved on and met new people. Now I have a bunch of online friends I talk to and play various games with and still get in touch with even if we aren't playing the same game on a regular basis anymore.

This applies to online and irl: If someone isn't bothered about making an effort to be friends with you then don't make the effort back. If someone isn't interested in talking to you outside of a game, don't keep playing just for the sake of keeping in touch. Move on, find new friends and enjoy life doing whatever you want to do not what others want you to do.

So you have the right to say when someone should and should not play a game but people don't have the right to discuss a product they've invested in? You sound stupid. It's not a matter of opinion, the game lacks content, complexity and any sort of long-term goal other than pulling the slot machine crank every week. The story is VERY CLEARLY being clumsily thrown together without much of an understood direction, trampling beloved characters' stories along the way so that their fanfic stories can come to life.
I know you probably love the game because island expeditions are still a challenge for you, and you look forward to beating the computer AI at warfronts but the game is bad right now for anyone who has advanced beyond the technical skills required for coloring books.

[Steelcryo]

So you have the right to say when someone should and should not play a game but people don't have the right to discuss a product they've invested in? You sound stupid. It's not a matter of opinion, the game lacks content, complexity and any sort of long-term goal other than pulling the slot machine crank every week. The story is VERY CLEARLY being clumsily thrown together without much of an understood direction, trampling beloved characters' stories along the way so that their fanfic stories can come to life.
I know you probably love the game because island expeditions are still a challenge for you, and you look forward to beating the computer AI at warfronts but the game is bad right now for anyone who has advanced beyond the technical skills required for coloring books.

When did I ever say people couldn't discuss the game? Pretty sure the OP said go and post and discuss the game in a constructive manner and I agreed.


Also hilarious assumptions that I enjoy the game and I'm bad at it considering I've not played since about a month after BfA launched because I think outside of the leveling quests story (which is only interesting first time through) the expansions a shit show of failed ideas. But you keep making completely wrong assumptions and insulting people based on those false assumptions, I'm sure that'll serve you well in life.

Also how someone can be so fucking stupid to even make those assumptions based on a post about making/keeping friends and nothing about the game is both hilarious and confusing. When you finally advance to colouring books I'll be happy to teach you how to stay inside the lines!

[JoshuaNLG]

Or provide constructive criticism so the game you care about improves?

[Savagedragn]

yeah, providing feedback isn't an option, if you don't like it leave. lmfao, i bet you started in wrath and refer to MoP as "back in the day"

Also, how exactly is this kind of thread any more valid to post than a thread that talks about how this game is a 3 button joke so people like OP can still play. So which thread is more foolish? The pointless thread? Or the pointless thread talking about how pointless the pointless thread is? Glad you took the time to judge whether or not someone else's opinion was worth expressing but didn't take the time to judge whether your own dribble was appropriate to spew.

By your logic this is a pretty easy problem to solve for you, if you don't like to see the posts about the absolutely pathetic state of this game...Don't click them.

Actually I was a WC1 player, WC2 player, WC3 player, Day 1 launch WoW player and have played every expansion including server first raiding.

Check some of my follow-up around how Activision might react to sub drops. I don’t actually think the problem is all that simple, I just think our options as players are simple. If we keep paying, they won’t change their behavior.

If you go to the gym and do the same exercises everyday, you’ll hit a point of stasis and your body won’t change anymore. Without some sort of tension, why make a change? Blizzard Activision are quite happy to take your money. I’m open and interested to hear your thoughts on other effective means for instigating actual change from Blizzard. I love Wow and was REALLY enjoying BFA the first 1.5 months. I’m not entirely happy to be unsubbed atm but they lost me for now.

[predasmoke3]

Actually I was a WC1 player, WC2 player, WC3 player, Day 1 launch WoW player and have played every expansion including server first raiding.

Check some of my follow-up around how Activision might react to sub drops. I don’t actually think the problem is all that simple, I just think our options as players are simple. If we keep paying, they won’t change their behavior.

If you go to the gym and do the same exercises everyday, you’ll hit a point of stasis and your body won’t change anymore. Without some sort of tension, why make a change? Blizzard Activision are quite happy to take your money. I’m open and interested to hear your thoughts on other effective means for instigating actual change from Blizzard. I love Wow and was REALLY enjoying BFA the first 1.5 months. I’m not entirely happy to be unsubbed atm but they lost me for now.

Make the game not based upon a dopamine-drip driven system where you're literally paying 15$ a month for x amount of chances at loot a month. I don't want 5 whacks at the mole, I don't want 3 chances to knock all the pins down and get a prize and then wait for the circus to come back to town next week. I don't want systems that are entirely based upon RNG (legendaries) to be removed simply because, as is the nature of randomness, some people didn't get their absolute BIS in the first 2 or 3 drops. My BiS was my 26th legendary, switched specs during NH, had no problems being competitive.

Make the game conducive to experiences. As it stands now, you can quite literally quantify the amount of fun you are having based on how much loot you get. Experiences are priceless. As shown by the unbelievable nostalgia associated with a very clunky, very cumbersome, very broken, unstandardized, totally unfair in terms of loot distribution game known as Vanilla wow.

People are hooked on gratification and mistaking it for real fun. I'm not saying what is and is not fun, everyone enjoys different things. I enjoy having eight chances a week at rare mounts, mogs, etc. But rolling the dice while you open a box is not comparable to something like a world city raid or working on a questline that wasn't datamined 4 months before patch release.

[Bumpy]

If you go to the gym and do the same exercises everyday, you’ll hit a point of stasis and your body won’t change anymore. Without some sort of tension, why make a change.

So your proposed solution is stop going to the gym altogether, and then somehow achieve the desired change.

[Savagedragn]

Make the game not based upon a dopamine-drip driven system where you're literally paying 15$ a month for x amount of chances at loot a month. I don't want 5 whacks at the mole, I don't want 3 chances to knock all the pins down and get a prize and then wait for the circus to come back to town next week. I don't want systems that are entirely based upon RNG (legendaries) to be removed simply because, as is the nature of randomness, some people didn't get their absolute BIS in the first 2 or 3 drops. My BiS was my 26th legendary, switched specs during NH, had no problems being competitive.

Make the game conducive to experiences. As it stands now, you can quite literally quantify the amount of fun you are having based on how much loot you get. Experiences are priceless. As shown by the unbelievable nostalgia associated with a very clunky, very cumbersome, very broken, unstandardized, totally unfair in terms of loot distribution game known as Vanilla wow.

People are hooked on gratification and mistaking it for real fun. I'm not saying what is and is not fun, everyone enjoys different things. I enjoy having eight chances a week at rare mounts, mogs, etc. But rolling the dice while you open a box is not comparable to something like a world city raid or working on a questline that wasn't datamined 4 months before patch release.

I’m more interested here in effective ways of interacting with Blizzard. Not as much the actual content of the changes people want to see.

- - - Updated - - -

So your proposed solution is stop going to the gym altogether, and then somehow achieve the desired change.

Not making any changes to your exercise routine here is “paying your sub even though you’re unhappy”. If you keep paying, they have no need to change for you. Their reason to change, if any, would be more related to getting OTHER people to come back or new people to join. Retention obviously is something they have to consider, but they’ll consider it much more strongly if they see their retention efforts are failing.

They expect a decline in subs. Their concern would come from how sharp the decline is vs expected.

Sorry, I tried to explain the gym analogy a little better. I don’t think quoting the gym will make you stronger =). I think you have to make a change that is noticeable.

[dope_danny]

Whenever I see someone say the "if you dislike the game, unsub" line, it's painfully obvious they are a casual who doesn't raid mythic with a core of friends they have known for years.

Friends dont hold friends hostage to an activity they arent having fun with.

[Savagedragn]

Or provide constructive criticism so the game you care about improves?

Being unhappy with the game and having constructive feedback you want to give can be two different things. We’re not all game developers but we know when we’re unhappy.

I did suggest posting to actual forums for a shot at having your input brought into their internal discussion if you take a look at my original post again =)

[Frontenac]

This pretty much. It's not that simple at all.

Just because people are unhappy with the game is now, it doesn't usually mean that they hate it, they're just disappointed with the way the game is going. They want the game to get better, or back to the way it used to be. Though they don't always post constructively... they just have too much passion for a game they dedicated a great deal of their life to.

I believe that's the core of the problem.

[Deleted]

Do you playbother games with those people? Wow was reasonably unique in terms of online community building at launch but now the communities are aggregated in places like Dsicord. You can still log on, connect to discord, and play other competitive games with your same community of friends. Mythic raiding in Wow isn’t the only way to enjoy a gaming challenge with friends and a community.

I can see myself playing some other games online with SOME guild members, but it's hard to find a game where we can play as 20 and is also competitive AND compatible with WoW.
Also, unsubbing right now would mean i will be behind in neck lvl when i get back (i already am because i've been slacking for one month on WQs).
The game is made so you can't unsub if you want to remain competitive; there are catch-up mechanics, sure, but they don't make up for extended downtimes if you are on a serious guild/comunnity.

[Savagedragn]

I can see myself playing some other games online with SOME guild members, but it's hard to find a game where we can play as 20 and is also competitive AND compatible with WoW.
Also, unsubbing right now would mean i will be behind in neck lvl when i get back (i already am because i've been slacking for one month on WQs).
The game is made so you can't unsub if you want to remain competitive; there are catch-up mechanics, sure, but they don't make up for extended downtimes if you are on a serious guild/comunnity.

Honestly makes me sad to hear neck level as a reason to not unsub.

Difficulty finding an activity compatible with 20 people is legit. I understand that.

[Deleted]

I completely agree.

I am fine if someone thinks they aren't getting their moneys worth and they can leave feedback and go do something else they enjoy. I do recommend trying other mmo's as that gives important perspective. That's the mature thing to do.

What i don't think is fine is to stick around being miserable and trying to make other people miserable cause they are enjoying the game when they aren't. That's the childish thing to do.

Unfortunely we got a lot of these childish toxic people.

[Savagedragn]

If you cant get other people to quit along with you, you have not proven that you are correct so OBVIOUSLY I need to tell as many people how shit everything is so they will quit as well and then I have proven to myself that I was right all along....

I’m more interested in discussing what the unhappy player should be doing with their life.

Some (likely many) of those players still want to play a great version of wow. How can they most effectively communicate that to Blizzard and effect change?

Some players probably should just move on with their lives and find other ways to enjoy time with the online communications they’ve connected with. That’s a pretty big challenge in itself though as has been discussed a bit in this thread so far.

I’m trolling around on this forums like you. Maybe you can guess I’m in group 1 but both types of players would be here.

[Raone]

It’s really that simple.

Post on the official forums as well if you’re interested in providing specific feedback. Maybe they’ll see it and maybe your point will be discussed at their meetings. I work in software development for a fortune 100 company and you can be damn sure we care about our customers. You have to make hard decisions, but ultimately people gotta pay for your products or you’re dead.

I’ve unsubbed and am currently trying out FF XIV. I don’t actually have my first job yet but I don’t care. Just enjoying seeing another take on MMO’s. Also playing some Starcraft 2 again. It’s still a great game.

Get out and enjoy your life. Make choices, try something new, try something old. Give feedback to Blizz if you love wow and want it to be good again but please please please don’t give them your money if you actually want to see a change.

I mean if you hate the game please do unsub, but saying telling people if you do not enjoy the game they should unsub or they won't listen to us is just untrue, they won't listen just because you unsub lol. The thing is if everyone unsubbed and quit, the game wouldn't get better, they would just close the servers. Like you said "pay or you're dead". Community feedback is what is saving this game (slowly but over time), and will be the only thing that saves this game, too bad blizzard barely listens let alone communicates

I can see myself playing some other games online with SOME guild members, but it's hard to find a game where we can play as 20 and is also competitive AND compatible with WoW.
Also, unsubbing right now would mean i will be behind in neck lvl when i get back (i already am because i've been slacking for one month on WQs).
The game is made so you can't unsub if you want to remain competitive; there are catch-up mechanics, sure, but they don't make up for extended downtimes if you are on a serious guild/comunnity.

The neck thing is not true, the neck catchup is fine and you don't even need to farm AP because upgrading your neck barely give you any dps/hps gains. Level 30 on your neck right now is not hard to obtain and you don't even need that to clear even the hardest content.

[Zogarth]

I would if I was not in my RBG team that I am in atm. Everything else but that sucks currently. But those hours every week where we play are still awesome.. It is the same for raiding guilds. Many have one aspect they really enjoy, be it mount collecting, raiding, M+ spamming, RBG, Arena etc., but that does not mean they don't want other things to be good too. It is like going to a theme park, and really enjoying that one ride, but there are 10 other rides who are just so boring. While that one ride does make with worth to go to that park, it is wrong to want the 10 other rides to also be better?

WoW is such a big game, you can hate one aspect, love another, be indifferent to some. Complaining does not mean you hate the game, saying BFA sucks does not mean you hate the game. The whole "if you don't like, unsub" is so one-dimensional and simple that it makes no sense.

[Savagedragn]

I mean if you hate the game please do unsub, but saying telling people if you do not enjoy the game they should unsub or they won't listen to us is just untrue, they won't listen just because you unsub lol. The thing is if everyone unsubbed and quit, the game wouldn't get better, they would just close the servers. Like you said "pay or you're dead". Community feedback is what is saving this game (slowly but over time), and will be the only thing that saves this game, too bad blizzard barely listens let alone communicates

You show that feedback likely will not effect change even in your own post =)

The post is related to people that are unhappy. Not to encourage every single player to unsub. I do believe that unsub is the only way to effect their bottom line and truly engage them. This game is still a gold mine. Decision makers would not shut down all of the servers if someone came to them and said “yeah we’ve lost all these subs but we’ve worked really hard on the community feedback and we think we can reboot in 8 weeks with a patch that will truly engage the communities needs”

You wanna see people putting in the time to make REAL a change? Sometimes it requires really lighting a fire under them. As I’ve said in some other replies, im still interested in hearing how else the player base can effect change. You’ve said yourself here that they aren’t listening and EVERYONE can see clearly that for some strange reason they’re doubling down on their failed systems. Maybe because it was their plan and they haven’t been strongly enough motivated to deviate from a plan they believed in? Maybe they need a leadership change? Losing money can cause these changes.

- - - Updated - - -

I would if I was not in my RBG team that I am in atm. Everything else but that sucks currently. But those hours every week where we play are still awesome.. It is the same for raiding guilds. Many have one aspect they really enjoy, be it mount collecting, raiding, M+ spamming, RBG, Arena etc., but that does not mean they don't want other things to be good too. It is like going to a theme park, and really enjoying that one ride, but there are 10 other rides who are just so boring. While that one ride does make with worth to go to that park, it is wrong to want the 10 other rides to also be better?

WoW is such a big game, you can hate one aspect, love another, be indifferent to some. Complaining does not mean you hate the game, saying BFA sucks does not mean you hate the game. The whole "if you don't like, unsub" is so one-dimensional and simple that it makes no sense.

I said if you’re unhappy. Sounds like you have a part of the game you’re enjoying and are not unhappy!

Sounds worth 15$ a month to me brother. Enjoy =)

[Hypasonic]

But I've been subbed since 2005, one cannot simply unsub now.

[Savagedragn]

But I've been subbed since 2005, one cannot simply unsub now.

Are you unhappy?

[Th3Scourge]

It's not that simple