Unpopular opinion: J. Allen Brack was right

[Beerbill Society]

Go brutal or go home.

J. Allen Brack is an asshole.

Vanilla shall reign supreme.

[Mormolyce]

What J. Allen Brack basically said was that you think you want to play Classic, but you really don't, because all the things that we fixed over the years, all the bugs, they are still there in classic.

People of course easily get offended "don't tell me what I'm supposed to like" but most of them missed the point.

I feel like this fanbase goes out of its way to get offended sometimes.

[DrStiglit]

I stopped reading when you said “I think everyone is missing the point”. Not a good way to start off an “opinion”.

[Deleted]

This is the most obvious (and patronizing) interpretation. I have an alternative interpretation.

He said so with inside knowledge of how his employer operates. I believe he presumably knows that if they did classic, it wouldn't be a 'niche' product (they do not DO niche products), and they would do anything and everything needed to make it a mass-market reboot success in accordance with their current design philosophy and best values while claiming the opposite.

Under this interpretation, his comment could be taken as an unusually candid warning which he had to swallow as being patronizing because actually clarifying it would end his career (which, in retrospect, was obviously waxing).

I have no idea what you are saying here.

What I wrote isn't an interpretation, that is actually what he said when he answered the question.

[DrStiglit]

WTF is up with the attitude?

I didn't insult anyone.

This is what happens when you try and tell people their opinion is wrong. Don’t do that and you won’t eat attitude. You could say “I think the problem with classic is...” or “my problem with classic is...” but don’t try and inject your thought as a fact.

[anon5123]

What J. Allen Brack basically said was that you think you want to play Classic, but you really don't, because all the things that we fixed over the years, all the bugs, they are still there in classic.

uh, no, pretty much every bug from vanilla was fixed by wotlk at the earliest, m8.

and eventually quit because they realize these problems will never be fixed.

Ah, there it is, the tired old "HURR PEOPLE ARE GONNA QUIT WHEN THEY REALIZE HOW BAD AND AWFUL IT IS XDDDDD" argument that anti-vanilla doomsayers keep pushing

Hint: Classic is being released for people who are already fans of vanilla and know what the game is like. But don't let little fact get in the way of your rabid doomsaying

[Featherogue]

It's because we thought we did, but it turns out we didn't.

[nocendi]

Oh, and I'm sure that there will be some people perfectly happy with Classic, but quite honestly, they'll probably be a small minority of the playerbase.

No shit. But that still doesn't make him right. It was always a minority that wanted vanilla servers, and that hasn't changed. Some of them do remember the experience and want it again.

Some of us also remember the experience and would rather stick burning hot pokers through our eyes than play it again.

The majority didn't play, will give it a try, and quit before hitting 60. And that's okay.

[davesurfer]

Seperate games, seperate teams and seperate resources.

If you like Current WoW, play current. If you like Classic, play classic.

Ive played Classic before, i know what im in for, im not missing any point.

If you want the next exp to be better then voice your concerns and offer suggestions on the forums and hope for them to listen. Just leave Classic alone, its not its fault current wow isnt fun.

I 100% agree with this. I will do it for about a week and go back to Current/other games. TO ME Vanilla is nostalgia, and I can't see going back. To others, enjoy, I hope it is what you are looking for

But that's what I'm getting at: why segment things when they could achieve something that worked for everyone? Of course that there will be people enjoying current WoW and people enjoying Classic, but why segment the community of an MMO game when there are solutions that could work for everyone?

The community is segmented. Most of the players who joined in Wrath and later would hate Vanilla. The people who truly want vanilla, the ones who really know it, will never be happy with the Current version.

There is no one solution to feed both wants

[Battlebeard]

I mean about the whole "You think you do, but you don't" thing.

Let me explain, I think everyone is missing the point with Classic, not just Blizz but also the community:

Going back to the vanilla experience, while it may be fun for a while, it's a stupid move, Blizzard probably has dedicated a lot of money (maybe not "new expansion" kind of money, but still it must have costed quite a bit) to recreate something that most people will abandon after a short time. Then they'll be able to say "See? We told you" and everyone will forget about it, when they could've easily done the right move.

People don't miss the actual vanilla game, they miss the experience: the slower leveling and gameplay, the harder difficulty, the sense of actually achieving things, the progression, etc.
But these are things that can be easily done or replicated in the current WoW, with some adjustements.

But going back to the full, brutal, boring vanilla experience? It's just crazy. I agree that a lot QOL improvements done over the years have taken away from the game, but a lot of them make a lot of sense and actually turn the game into a more enjoyable experience.
You can have a new expansions that shifts the gameplay more towards the classic experience but keeping improvements done over time when they make sense. They can even do this in a "Cataclysm" style xpac that changes the entire game, so the leveling experience is consistent with the top level content.

Instead they wasted resources on an experiment that will most likely fail and they just move on to give us another mediocre and bland xpac, no one will benefit.

Oh, and I'm sure that there will be some people perfectly happy with Classic, but quite honestly, they'll probably be a small minority of the playerbase.

Can't wait for you to to be proven wrong I am certain this will be a success and honestly, it could "kill" retail wow.

[jakeic]

J Allen Brack was only right to the extent that Burning Crusade servers would've been better, being a more 'final version' of vanilla wow. That version of the game takes a dump on modern wow

While TBC certainly had some shifts away from the community driven aspects of WoW and featured some obscenely over powered talents/items, it was by far and away the best the game has ever been. I was legitimately excited for WotLK at the time because of how amazing the entire TBC experience was, unfortunately WotLK veered a different direction and the game was never able to recapture the success that TBC had. For example, TBC featured fantastic raids that offered a multitude of options for beginning progression (karazhan being one of my all time favorites), it offered relevant and difficult dungeons, it offered varied outdoor world questing and the best world quest hub in Quel'Danas, and it offered the best PvP experience with arenas where 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5 were all relevant.

I really enjoyed vanilla, and I will play classic when it is released, but the reason I've checked out every expansion of WoW is because I hold out hope that Blizzard has taken a step back and rediscovered the magic formula that they delivered with TBC.

[tangers58]

I mean about the whole "You think you do, but you don't" thing.

Let me explain, I think everyone is missing the point with Classic, not just Blizz but also the community:

Going back to the vanilla experience, while it may be fun for a while, it's a stupid move, Blizzard probably has dedicated a lot of money (maybe not "new expansion" kind of money, but still it must have costed quite a bit) to recreate something that most people will abandon after a short time. Then they'll be able to say "See? We told you" and everyone will forget about it, when they could've easily done the right move.

People don't miss the actual vanilla game, they miss the experience: the slower leveling and gameplay, the harder difficulty, the sense of actually achieving things, the progression, etc.
But these are things that can be easily done or replicated in the current WoW, with some adjustements.

But going back to the full, brutal, boring vanilla experience? It's just crazy. I agree that a lot QOL improvements done over the years have taken away from the game, but a lot of them make a lot of sense and actually turn the game into a more enjoyable experience.
You can have a new expansions that shifts the gameplay more towards the classic experience but keeping improvements done over time when they make sense. They can even do this in a "Cataclysm" style xpac that changes the entire game, so the leveling experience is consistent with the top level content.

Instead they wasted resources on an experiment that will most likely fail and they just move on to give us another mediocre and bland xpac, no one will benefit.

Oh, and I'm sure that there will be some people perfectly happy with Classic, but quite honestly, they'll probably be a small minority of the playerbase.

Quite wrong. But he seems like the petty sort who will do everything he can to sabotage it, I'm sure there will be plenty of "ddos attacks" that only effect Classic in the hopes of getting people on his failing retail product, since they are subbed anyway.

[Deleted]

the harder difficulty

And suddenly you lose all credibility.

[Koloss]

It seems many people are learning to be project managers being so concerned about Blizzard's resources.

[Th3Scourge]

While TBC certainly had some shifts away from the community driven aspects of WoW and featured some obscenely over powered talents/items, it was by far and away the best the game has ever been. I was legitimately excited for WotLK at the time because of how amazing the entire TBC experience was, unfortunately WotLK veered a different direction and the game was never able to recapture the success that TBC had. For example, TBC featured fantastic raids that offered a multitude of options for beginning progression (karazhan being one of my all time favorites), it offered relevant and difficult dungeons, it offered varied outdoor world questing and the best world quest hub in Quel'Danas, and it offered the best PvP experience with arenas where 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5 were all relevant.

I really enjoyed vanilla, and I will play classic when it is released, but the reason I've checked out every expansion of WoW is because I hold out hope that Blizzard has taken a step back and rediscovered the magic formula that they delivered with TBC.

100% agree. Every part of TBC feels like a masterpiece. Professions were relevant (frozen shadoweave being OP for frost mages/affliction/destro/shadow priests) getting your 280% flying was actually an achievement, rare mounts meant something (netherwings) all raid tiers were relevant through to sunwell plateau and were some of the best raids we'd ever had like BT and Kara, pvp was excellent, isle of quel danas was an excellent introduction to dailies, the zones were full of atmosphere (both outland and new starting zones for BE/Dranaei) and the lore was so immersive.

The most fun I'd had was during WotLK but that was through connections I'd made in the game during that time but the state of the game was never better in TBC and I pray that this is where the classic project eventually leads us to

[Bodakane]

This is what happens when you try and tell people their opinion is wrong. Don’t do that and you won’t eat attitude. You could say “I think the problem with classic is...” or “my problem with classic is...” but don’t try and inject your thought as a fact.

I did nothing of the sort

[sirethas]

Honestly, reading forum posts not only on mmo-champion but also on official forums, it's not like "You think you do, but you don't" but it's more like "You think you know what you want, bu you have no fucking idea because every second suggestion in these fucking posts are about how to shit all over classic". I'm not a vanilla fanboy and I will most likely quit after month because I'm not big fan of doing quest "kill 20 mobs" for 3 hours because the area is overcrowded and shared tagging won't be a thing. People wanted vanilla, blizzard want to deliver it but everytime I go back to these subforums about classic there's dozens of posts about how to make it closer to current game.

[DrStiglit]

I did nothing of the sort

“The problem with classic is once you’ve played through it, you’ll be done” is doing exactly that. You didn’t state it as your problem or your issue with classic. The way it is worded you are speaking for everyone’s experiance.

[Bodakane]

“The problem with classic is once you’ve played through it, you’ll be done” is doing exactly that. You didn’t state it as your problem or your issue with classic. The way it is worded you are speaking for everyone’s experiance.

Oh for fuck's sake.

Literally every post on every forum, is like that.

Are you really suggesting that I put a fucking disclaimer at the end of every post I make?

[Deficineiron]

Oh for fuck's sake.

Literally every post on every forum, is like that.

Are you really suggesting that I put a fucking disclaimer at the end of every post I make?

Actually, starting a trend of disclaimers in posts here could provide some fun. I am stumped trying to find an amusing example, but I am sure I will think of one. How about you?