Was Jaina suicidal? Was that her "plan" all along in Kul Tiras?

[Thage]

You act like that happened in the span of 10 seconds. She was imprisoned and sent to the worst possible fate Kul Tirans had. And only after you, the Alliance representative that arrived with her, literally saved the entirety of Kul Tiras, does Genn convince Katherine that maybe Jaina isn't the devil and should be saved from an awful fate of being haunted for eternity.

The Jaina/Katherine arc was the only good story in BfA.

This. Katherine was being gaslighted by Ashvane, to the point of doubting her ability to lead and relying on Ashvane to make decisions for her. Jaina went home because the Alliance needed Kul'Tiras's navy, and she hoped she could convince Katherine to rejoin the Alliance.

She didn't count on Ashvane having her claws deep in her mother, deepening Katherine's antagonism toward Jaina, and encouraging her to send Jaina to her assumed death. Once Ashvane is outed for the treasonous snake she is, Katherine realizes how deep Ashvane's influence ran and countermanded her previous order re:Jaina's exilecution.

As for why Jaina over Tandred, Jaina is up to speed on current global affairs (and what she isn't up to speed on would take the course of a brief conversation about Alliance operations in Zandalar), has experience leading politically and militarily, and Tandred just returned after being assumed dead for some time. Katherine was ready to step down and Jaina was the most apparent successor.

[TickTickTick]

Kinda funny how people hated Thrall's storyline in 4.1 but think Jaina's BfA storyline is great. Its basically the same World of Family-drama which has no place in WoW.

[Grazrug]

Kinda funny how people hated Thrall's storyline in 4.1 but think Jaina's BfA storyline is great. Its basically the same World of Family-drama which has no place in WoW.

Thrall was Horde, Jaina was not. And Alliance players are far bigger cryouts about everyting they dislike for stupid reasons then the red side of the community, Speaks volumes about those levels of mentality and being mature.

[Dellis0991]

I've just finished the Alliance storyline in Kul Tiras: A Nation United & The Pride of Kul Tiras.

Jaina is now Lord Admiral... although WHY, I do not know. Seems her brother is a better fit, since he seems to be an actual admiral who has been commanding a fleet. While Jaina has been crying in The Dying Lands all this time? We arrived in Kul Tiras, were immediatelty imprisoned, and she was shipped to the Island of the Dead and got sucked into Limbo where she's remained all this time.

So that got me thinking: What was her plan? Jaina knew she was hated at home, and she even went to spy on her mother undercover (according to the short pre-BFA comic). And yet she told Anduin she would get the Kul Tiran people to join the Alliance.

And look what happened. The "Warbringer" arrives at Kul Tiras and immediately presents herself to her mother and "accepts judgement", which is execution. Or in this case, exile to the island from which "no one is ever seen again."

Isn't this just evidence that Jaina was pulling a suicide-by-cop, to use the modern parlance? Doesn't it seem like she wanted to die, but couldn't bring herself to do it by her own hand?

Or are we to believe that Jaina's clever plan all along was:

1. Bring a champion with me.

2. Hope they break out of prison.

3. Sit and wait until they unite the three houses and turn Kul Tiras into a unified fighting force.

4. They let me out of jail (gee, I hope I'm not executed in the meantime).

Again, what happened when we arrived didn't take her by surprise. She went to Kul Tiras undercover previously, and spied on her mother and the local populace. She knew she was branded a traitor. She knew the laws and what waited for her. And look what she tells Anduin before she leaves:



I think it was her plan all along not to return at all. And that once she was executed, Kul Tiras could "move on", and start taking steps to rejoin the Alliance without it's most hated traitor's presence being in the way.

Thousands upon thousands have died as a direct result of her choices. She helped create the Horde, and spent years of her life begging Alliance heroes to let them live in peace. Then Theramore. Everyone she loved or trusted is gone from her life: her father, Arthas, Kael'thas, Thrall, Tirion, Rhonin, Kalec, Kinndy, Varian, The Kirin Tor... and the Horde have gone and committed another mass genocide, because of course they have. And her people (and her mother) despise her.



I think she'd had enough.

And I think she brought along the Alliance Champion because she knew once the single greatest obstacle to Kul Tiras joining the Alliance was no longer a problem and "justice was done", WE could start negotiating with Kul Tiras on behalf of the Alliance in good faith. Which was why one of the most powerful mages in Azeroth let herself be shipped from the prison to the Island of the Damned. She knew the sooner she was gone, the sooner we could be brought before the courts, be pardoned (WE had done nothing), and begin talks.

I have to believe that was her plan all along. Because the alternative (ie. "Our Champion will think of something while we're sitting in jail") is just too mind-numbing.

You didn't read the comic that preludes to BFA?

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-jaina-reunion

[Fayolynn]

Kinda funny how people hated Thrall's storyline in 4.1 but think Jaina's BfA storyline is great. Its basically the same World of Family-drama which has no place in WoW.

How do Jaina and Thralls storylines even compare?

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Thrall was Horde, Jaina was not. And Alliance players are far bigger cryouts about everyting they dislike for stupid reasons then the red side of the community, Speaks volumes about those levels of mentality and being mature.

It's funny how both factions think the players from the other are immature compared to the players of their own.

[Mayia]

While there are people getting stuff wrong i do think she failed to have a backup plan to be rescued, however its possible she never thought she'd be killed inprisoned maybe.. and no doubt they had hope the hero/champion would show them the best of the alliance.
It is abit floppy but possible..plus they had to drag out events before the rescue to match the horde layout.

[Ielenia]

Kinda funny how people hated Thrall's storyline in 4.1 but think Jaina's BfA storyline is great. Its basically the same World of Family-drama which has no place in WoW.

Thrall was made to be the savior of the world, the "most powerful shaman", yadda yadda yadda, only made worse by giving him a "real name": Go'el. Thrall was made into a "Gary Stu" that could do no wrong and could do everything. Hence all the "green jesus" jokes.

[Eggroll]

Thrall was Horde, Jaina was not. And Alliance players are far bigger cryouts about everyting they dislike for stupid reasons then the red side of the community, Speaks volumes about those levels of mentality and being mature.

Everytime someone brings up "maturity" in a thread, that's got to be fun. I mean, comeon, how many times did the Horde have a player race genocided by the opposite faction, or a major settlement permanently destroyed, hu? Alliance has lost much more these past xpacs. Southshore/Hillsbrad, Theramore, Darkshore, Teldrassil, (including 10k civilians), Varian, Tirion and Rhonin (although technically not Alliance, still humans).

What did the Horde lose really? Vol'jin isn't really dead and Garrosh was killed by Thrall, not the Alliance. And you got to raid/free your own capital. Ok, you got Nazgrim, I'll give you that. And Cairne.

Basically all the Horde has suffered is a little hurt pride. Bohoo.

[FelPlague]

She had hoped her mother would atleast speak with her, and she did not want to bring an army... cause what is more trustworthy
"Hello mother, I came to speak, and to say I am sorry..."
"Hey mother i came with the entire might of the alliance guns aimed at you, to say i am sorry and I wish to speak"
which do you think is going to gain the kultirans forgiveness?

[Eggroll]

She had hoped her mother would atleast speak with her, and she did not want to bring an army... cause what is more trustworthy
"Hello mother, I came to speak, and to say I am sorry..."
"Hey mother i came with the entire might of the alliance guns aimed at you, to say i am sorry and I wish to speak"
which do you think is going to gain the kultirans forgiveness?

Haha, nice meme. Did you actually play the Alliance side?

[FelPlague]

Haha, nice meme. Did you actually play the Alliance side?

yes, she went there with you and her alone, she went up saying "hey i want your judgement mother" and she said "you are no daughter of mine" and ripped her necklace off, then literally saying "do whatever you want to her"

[Grazrug]

Everytime someone brings up "maturity" in a thread, that's got to be fun. I mean, comeon, how many times did the Horde have a player race genocided by the opposite faction, or a major settlement permanently destroyed, hu? Alliance has lost much more these past xpacs. Southshore/Hillsbrad, Theramore, Darkshore, Teldrassil, (including 10k civilians), Varian, Tirion and Rhonin (although technically not Alliance, still humans).

What did the Horde lose really? Vol'jin isn't really dead and Garrosh was killed by Thrall, not the Alliance. And you got to raid/free your own capital. Ok, you got Nazgrim, I'll give you that. And Cairne.

Basically all the Horde has suffered is a little hurt pride. Bohoo.

And anything else that could make you identify with your faction. Morals and characters drive identity and the narrative of the plot, not the status quo of ruling Azeroth without opposition. And as I said before, stop being ignorant too. The Horde lost far more than that, you are just ignorant. ALL Iconic ORC and Warcraft 2 characters where one way or another a part of the Horde, MU or AU alike. They all are, what the Sons of Lothar are for the Alliance. Just because Alliance mains don't agree, doesn't make it any less true.

Zul'jin, Grommash, Zuluhed, Tagar, Mogor, Kargath, Kilrogg, Ner'zhul, Durotan(AU one), Kael'thas(on paper Quel'Thalas joined the Horde when he was still in charge), Nazgrim, Zaela, Malkorok, Cairne, Garrosh, Vol'jin(Dead is dead is dead. He is a spirit means he is dead and only communicates via force ghost link), with Zuldazar now Rastakhan after all the important Alliance people are just like Malufron in the war of thorns protected by being "Blizzards favorite kids armor" safe and sound. Twist all you want but nothing big enough ever happened to you, in order to stay the single sole superpower of Azeroth. You have all the power houses and extra super heroes and will win this war just like every other war before. Big bohoo? Double standards? What did the Alliance really lose? Varian. That's it. Compared to the manpower on the cast the Horde lost this single character death was peanuts. And he still got the best and most kickass ever death scene Blizzard created so far plusa new shiny monument. Are you still blind to the obvious bias?

[Powerogue]

I think she held onto some scrap of hope that her mother would forgive her.

When her mother dumped her in prison to die, I'd imagine she lost all will to live, hence her making no effort to escape. Her home and family was literally her last anchor she could go back to.

[thottstation]

You didn't read the comic that preludes to BFA?

You didn't read my post, did you?

How Ironic.

It's sad that fans come up with much interesting and unique story ideas

If it was up to the fans, Rastakhan would still be alive and Talanji would have been killed by the Alliance... only to have Sylvanas raise her.

Rastakhan loved his daughter, and finally accepted that it was his lethargy and deafness to her repeated dire warnings that culminated in her death at the hands of the Alliance. But then Sylvanas offers him a deal he cannot refuse: She will bring Talanji back to life and free her from Bwonsamdi's grip, in exchange for him pledging the Zandalari to the Horde. And he does.

Of course Bwonsamdi is furious; he was promised Rastakhan's entire bloodline and delighted in claiming Talanji as first payment, only to have her taken away and be rendered both sterile AND effectively immortal. NOT HAPPY! This deal isn't turning out how anyone wanted it too.

Talanji is happy to be with her father again and is more than pleased to have finally united her empire with the Horde who proved their worth in defending her city, and pledges herself to serving Sylvanas (a little too sincerely. She does still have free will.... right?). Rastakhan accepts that it was Talanji's determination and will to act that truly saved his people from the Blood Trolls, G'huun, his treacherous inner circle AND the Alliance. She has the fire of leadership that he has lost. And so Rastakhan steps down as ruler, and permits his daughter to ascend the throne and become Queen of the Zandalari Empire.



And like the Tauren before them, the Zandalari people are bound to honor their blood oath to serve the Horde no matter what, and do their best to adapt to serving Bwonsamdi as the new loa of kings, and kneel before their new undead ruler: Shadow Queen Talanji. May she rule forevah!

These are perilous times for the Zandalari as they rebuild their shattered empire and rediscover their identity in this perilous new era... and it falls to brave Zandalari trolls like YOU to uphold the will of your new queen, and assert the dominance of the Horde. [Lvl1 Zandalari Troll spawns in starting zone]


Yeah, we could have had a nicely developed fatherly figure in Rastakhan who was spurred out of his torpor and rediscovers what's truly important to him, while also realizing he was no longer the king his people needed him to be, and steps aside to let his daughter assume the throne (a mirror to the Jaina/Katherine arc)... but was he truly doing what was best for his kingdom? Or are these the actions of a grief-stricken father now overcompensating for past mistakes, and so spurred by shame and guilt that he now defers ALL authority to his newly-returned daughter, who may or may not be truly in control of her own will?

But instead... Blizzard kills off V̶e̶l̶e̶n̶ Rastakhan and gives us High Exarch Y̶'̶r̶e̶l̶ Talanji.

Meh.

[George Costanza]

You act like that happened in the span of 10 seconds. She was imprisoned and sent to the worst possible fate Kul Tirans had. And only after you, the Alliance representative that arrived with her, literally saved the entirety of Kul Tiras, does Genn convince Katherine that maybe Jaina isn't the devil and should be saved from an awful fate of being haunted for eternity.

The Jaina/Katherine arc was the only good story in BfA.

ShE iS yOuR dAuGhTeR KaThErInE, sAvE hEr KaThErInE!

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anjd yeah rastakhan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eating horse shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>eating your own shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talanji

[Necroxis]

ShE iS yOuR dAuGhTeR KaThErInE, sAvE hEr KaThErInE!

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anjd yeah rastakhan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eating horse shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>eating your own shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talanji

You've sure convinced me.

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Thrall was Horde, Jaina was not. And Alliance players are far bigger cryouts about everyting they dislike for stupid reasons then the red side of the community, Speaks volumes about those levels of mentality and being mature.

This is the faction that screams like 10 year olds at every WoW event whenever someone talks about the Horde.

Yup, super mature. I love how you tried to say Kael'thas was a Horde character too. Jesus christ rofl.

[TickTickTick]

How do Jaina and Thralls storylines even compare?

They do. If you don't see them, I'm not going to make mental gymnastics neccessary for you to understand it since it's not worth it.

Thrall was made to be the savior of the world, the "most powerful shaman", yadda yadda yadda, only made worse by giving him a "real name": Go'el. Thrall was made into a "Gary Stu" that could do no wrong and could do everything. Hence all the "green jesus" jokes.

That wasn't the main point of people's complaints about Thrall's storyline. And tbh Jaina is being made into most powerful mage too, with abilities we haven't seen yet in Warcraft universe.

[Fayolynn]

They do. If you don't see them, I'm not going to make mental gymnastics neccessary for you to understand it since it's not worth it.

They have as much in common with each other as the Saurfang storyline in WotLK. Or the Dark Iron Dwarf storyline from Vanilla. "Family drama" is to big of an umbrella to say they are the same story.

[Grazrug]

You've sure convinced me.

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This is the faction that screams like 10 year olds at every WoW event whenever someone talks about the Horde.

Yup, super mature. I love how you tried to say Kael'thas was a Horde character too. Jesus christ rofl.

Kael'thas was, on paper, still official monarch of all bloodelves previous to the tempest keep raid. That's a fact. Actually he was the one snipping the information about uncorrupted Orcs towards lor'themar who gave this information to Thrall in return for a voice with weight inside of the Horde. Wowpedia always links their sources thankfully.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure that you're talking in-game reasons, while the guy you replied to was talking about reasons behind decisions that shaped the in-game events the way they did. Namely, Blizzard's need to push FEMALE POWER in our faces in every single aspect of the game. Replacing Jaina's bro with her. Replacing Rastakhan with Flawless Talanji. Replacing Varian with Anduin "Non-Toxic Masculinity" Wrynn. And more.

Well that happens when men kill each other off in wars... Reality is hard.