Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by RampageBW1 View Post
    Spock was in a few episodes.
    He was making a joke at the expense of Star Trek: Discovery. Discovery has met with ratings issues, and so they added Spock in season 2, as if the problem with the TV show was it didn't have Spock.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  2. #22
    Ah, I never watched Discovery.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by X Amadeus X View Post
    There is no way they can say that as the series went on, in fact more specifically once the borg were introduced, the Enterprise was routinely sent into military conflict. I can see how the show started out, but how that was never revisited seems odd. The Enterprise historically and through the duration was constantly in danger, that is not conducive of supporting unenlisted innocent women and children.
    From a story telling perspective it added a lot to have the families, because it let you tell smaller stories of the O'Briens, plus it added to the decision making that the crew had to make. "Do we drive our starship into danger with these civilians?"

    Plus it specifically wasn't a warship, the Defiant class was a big deal because it was the first combat ship Starfleet had built in a generation.

  4. #24
    After the first season or so the Enterprise isn't really an exploratory vessel.

    Even in the first season it often isn't.

    It's a diplomatic ship more than not. What's more surprising is that they didn't have a more "civilian" oversight contingent which included an ambassador - although you could say that Picard functioned in that role much the same as a captain in the tall ship age would have.

    As others have said though, they are out for years at a time. There appears to be no rules on fraternization between officers, so they had to figure out a way to allow families to serve together.

    The Next Gen universe also appears to be far less Wild West than original trek too, which makes sense since the elevator pitch for original Trek was "Wagon Train, in SPACE!"

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Oh, I thought it was because it had no Spock.
    Well, that, and it did have Wesley Crusher.
    "The fatal flaw of every plan, no matter how well planned, is the assumption that you know more than your enemy."

  6. #26
    Biggest flaw was Season 1 and 2.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RampageBW1 View Post
    Spock was in a few episodes.
    Seriously!? I must see them now!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Seriously!? I must see them now!
    He appears in episodes 7 and 8 of season 5, where he infiltrates Romulus to preach to the people reunification of Romulus and Vulcan.

  9. #29
    TNG has many flaws, often related to it being, you know, a prime time TV show.

    The premise was always that the Federation is full-on about peace, and that they have no warships; the fact that their ships nevertheless are a match for the very militaristic battle cruisers of pretty much any rival power seems confusing in the face of that, but is simply a necessity of storytelling. You can't well have them lose every battle, or run from every fight, can you.

    DS9 is a good example of how the original precepts of Star Trek had to be "adjusted" to accommodate more compelling TV. DS9 is full of questionable moral decisions by Starfleet officers, full of issues of religion, full of fights and full-out warfare (heck it even has the Federation build an actual warship). It may not be 100% in line with Gene Roddenberry's vision, but many would say it made for more compelling mainstream TV.

    TNG had its moments to be sure, and culturally speaking, several of its episodes are immensely valuable. But it also had a lot of poor TV moments.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    He appears in episodes 7 and 8 of season 5, where he infiltrates Romulus to preach to the people reunification of Romulus and Vulcan.
    Sweet, definitely checking those out. Thanks for the reference!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    TNG has many flaws, often related to it being, you know, a prime time TV show.

    The premise was always that the Federation is full-on about peace, and that they have no warships; the fact that their ships nevertheless are a match for the very militaristic battle cruisers of pretty much any rival power seems confusing in the face of that, but is simply a necessity of storytelling. You can't well have them lose every battle, or run from every fight, can you.

    DS9 is a good example of how the original precepts of Star Trek had to be "adjusted" to accommodate more compelling TV. DS9 is full of questionable moral decisions by Starfleet officers, full of issues of religion, full of fights and full-out warfare (heck it even has the Federation build an actual warship). It may not be 100% in line with Gene Roddenberry's vision, but many would say it made for more compelling mainstream TV.

    TNG had its moments to be sure, and culturally speaking, several of its episodes are immensely valuable. But it also had a lot of poor TV moments.
    I really despise 'morally grey' shit in TV. It goes against Roddenberrys vision and even in TNG there were a few episodes about Starfleet that related to it. It just feels like an attempt to say "See!? Everyone is awful and shitty!" instead of the hopeful and peaceful future told in the original and in most TNG episodes.

    It irks me because its just a way of saying humans/humanity will never change. TNG did it the best with it's more hopeful outlook and levelheaded characterization but it all went downhill when they attempted to make thing 'morally grey' in the movies and they ended up not being good.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    I really despise 'morally grey' shit in TV. It goes against Roddenberrys vision and even in TNG there were a few episodes about Starfleet that related to it. It just feels like an attempt to say "See!? Everyone is awful and shitty!" instead of the hopeful and peaceful future told in the original and in most TNG episodes.
    I don't think it's quite as crass as that (well, for TNG/DS9/VOY anyway), but I agree that it's a substantial departure from Roddenberry's original vision. However, many would argue that it's more interesting as a result of that - having everyone be morally immaculate and beyond reproach gets boring fast. I do think they overdid it at times (DS9 Homefront/Paradise Lost come to mind, and the whole Section 31 thing) but I also agree that moral conundrums and grey areas can make for more compelling fiction. Picard is a great example of how it can be done really well; Sisko is more towards the other end of the spectrum, and Janeway is sort of in between. The series after that were more caricatures (and let's not even talk about the new movies...).

    The core problem behind the creeping changes away from a Utopian Star Trek is something that I've been lamenting all across SF/Fantasy fiction - a stubborn unwillingness to embrace Otherness. Everything has to be just like our (contemporary) selves to some degree. It always has to be about us. Our problems, our morality, our core values, at best simply disguised and transformed but fundamentally a reflection of the contemporary human condition. Exceptions are few and far between, and I think that is an enormous mistake. Recognizing the potential in the Other, abstracting from your own condition towards the unknown and alien, that's what SF should be all about (what Darko Suvin calls 'cognitive estrangement'). Not just a rehash of present-day problems dressed in gaudy colors and alien masks. That doesn't help anyone. An attitude of "they're really just like us" is eminently egocentric and narcissistic, and ultimately counter-productive; we shouldn't be accepting of others because they are (or can be made) to be like us - we should embrace them despite and BECAUSE of the fact that they are not. Because that diversity helps us change ourselves, and expands our horizon rather than limiting it to a status quo that others are simply measured against.

  13. #33
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ██████
    Posts
    26,371
    It's more of a cruise ship with guns. It's flaws were out in the open when war time came. Retrofits made Galaxy class ship decent of the line for war though.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  14. #34
    Scarab Lord Skizzit's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    ~De Geso!
    Posts
    4,841
    Well the Enterprise-D wasn't really an exploration vessel. It was the flagship of The Federation and while it did preform exploration and scientific missions, it was mostly a diplomatic ship. They kept the whole "boldly go where no one has gone before" thing mostly out of connection to the original series but the missions of the two series were quite different. The Enterprise in TOS was one of a kind and was sent out into the unknown while by the time of TNG, the majority of the space the series takes place in is well charted.

    Also, even though many people use Starfleet and The Federation as interchangeable, they are not the same. The Federation, or The United Federation of Planets, is the governing body while Starfleet it's defense and exploration branch so while Starfleet mostly crewed ships like the Enterprise, it was still a Federation ship and had non-Starfleet crewmembers as well.

    It has been a while since I have watched TNG and I am no expert, but I seem to recall it being shown that family members and non essential crew were evacuated whenever the ship was going into a known military conflict. I know for sure it happened on DS9 at the start of the war.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    I really despise 'morally grey' shit in TV. It goes against Roddenberrys vision and even in TNG there were a few episodes about Starfleet that related to it. It just feels like an attempt to say "See!? Everyone is awful and shitty!" instead of the hopeful and peaceful future told in the original and in most TNG episodes.

    It irks me because its just a way of saying humans/humanity will never change. TNG did it the best with it's more hopeful outlook and levelheaded characterization but it all went downhill when they attempted to make thing 'morally grey' in the movies and they ended up not being good.
    Oh absolutely! I don't hate the Rick Berman era of 'Trek, but I am always conscious that it simply isn't the same as the OG 'Trek that was dreamed up by Roddenberry. Roddenberry's entire idea was that if there was complete cultural shift in values (like a new Enlightenment) with the technology to enable an utopian future, the future could be bright. The Federation in ToS and TNG felt like a true utopian society with a few bad apples here and there that were dealt with, while Rick Berman's Federation is the Cold War United States but in space, with billions of people on Betazoid starving, rampant corruption at the highest echelons of government that Sisko didn't combat, protagonists committing immoral deeds (Sisko bombing Maquis planets, helping Garak to murder a Romulan Ambassador and frame the Dominion to provoke the Romluans to war, Bashirr and Section 31, nevermind all of the atrocities committed by Janeway...) under the mantra of "the ends justify the means", and so on. DS9 was still entertaining, but I wouldn't call it a true Star Trek installment in the same way that I wouldn't call the J.J. Abrams action flicks to be true Star Trek installments.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by X Amadeus X View Post
    and no I don't mean the lack of bathrooms
    Yeah Deanna was always in her bathroom crying in the mirror about something or another.

  17. #37
    Because otherwise we would've miss out on "Shut up, Wesley!"

  18. #38
    lol this thread.

    Anyway. A true TNG fan would know that Gene wrote extensively on why family were on board starships and his vision for Utopia on them. I'll let you google it and read. Things didn't change regarding this until he died, more or less.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by X Amadeus X View Post
    With the announcement of a new Star Trek series centered around Jean Luc Picard arguably the greatest Star Trek Captain ever. There is one glaring flaw with the series never addressed, and no I don't mean the lack of bathrooms

    But the problem is this, I know that the Galaxy Class Starship is a ship of exploration, nevermind the fact it's armed to the teeth, but why the hell are there family members on board?

    They didn't have that on Kirk's ship, so the question begs, who thought it was a good idea to put unenlisted, women and men along with children on Star ship that although was on a peace mission was armed, and routinely sent into harms way along the neutral zone to deal with such conditions as with the Klingons or Romulans or even The Borg
    So there are two answer: "real world" version and "fictional universe" version.

    The Real World Version is that Star Trek TNG, at it's conception stage (which arose as a result of the Box office success of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home) was a real playground of ideas that Gene Roddenberry played with. At one point he even considered getting rid of the ship and just having long range transporters. That was rejected, but the concept of what "Star Trek" looked like in the years after the movies wasn't clear. In the real world there were a lot of infighting over creative control between Gene Roddenberry (and his infamous lawyer), the studio and the production staff, particularly in season 1 but also season 2. In fact, it was so unclear that until the year "2364" was uttered in the very last episode of TNG Season 1 (the Neutral Zone), it wasn't clear when TNG was taking place. At the time, fans actually thought it was the first decade of the 24th century or the 2310s. Star Trek TNG had no formal continuity, little internal consistency, and no explanation as to "why" for many of the major changes in TNG. Families was one of them. The Klingon Empire being part of the Federation (another TNG Season 1 idea) was another.

    Gene Roddenberry had a lot of ideas about how the 24th century crew would be different than the 23rd century crew, and worked as many as he could into the show while it was under control (unlike the movies, which were out of his control after the first). Production realities and new writers and studio pushback inhibited many of the worser impulses of his. Families stuck around though. The writers were never happy with it, as evidenced when they kept trying to find new roles for Wesley.



    The Fictional Universe version, which is a bit of a retcon, makes a lot of sense (it's really very good). It was laid out by Ronald Moore of Battlestar Galactica fame, who worked on DS9, in the early 2000s.

    Basically his idea is this:

    The Klingon-Federation Cold War of the latter half of the 23rd century led to a large fleet of cheap, advanced, but fairly small ships (think Constitution or Constellation class) that the Khitomer Accords saw serve short lives and rapidly retired (e.g. the very short service life of the Enterprise A compared to the original). This has a real world analog because in the four years immediately following the end of the US-Soviet Cold War, the US rapidly retired many ships and aircraft that had decades of life left to them. Within the Federation, this led to the commissioning of larger, more capable but fewer explorers, generally of the Excelsior class design (and their derivatives).

    The Tomed Incident in the 2310s and the withdrawal of the Romulan Empire from contact of any kind towards the Federation further reduced the military threat. The Federation also came into contact with the Cardassian Empire about this time, but relations weren't poor yet.

    In the 2330s and 2340s, the Federation continued to build fewer, but larger ships, such as the Ambassador class (of which we've only ever seen a handful) and withdrew so early aging Excelsior class ships from service, but the "Flight II" and later Excelsior class was still the backbone of the pre-TNG / post-TOS era fleet. Since things seemed unprecedentedly peaceful - friendly Klingons, Romulans minding their own business, no war on the horizon, Starfleet shifted back hard to it's pre-Klingon Cold War mission, its legacy of the NX-01-era, which is peaceful exploration, but this time with more resources and with their most cable, largest ships ever. The Ambassador-class was the first class large enough to do long duration (longer than 5 years) deep space exploration away from Starbases, and some officers were allowed to bring their families along.

    The undercurrent of this era, the 2330s to about 3050, was that it is pretty much the most peaceful time in the Federation since the early 23rd century (the 60-year between the founding of the Federation after the Romulan War, in 2161 and the start of the Federation-Klingon Cold War). A century of cold and hot wars was behind it. So what did they do next? They authorized their most ambitious ship ever, the Galaxy class, of which they would only ever build 6 (at first) with frames laid for 6 more. It would not only be a technological marvel, and though heavily armed, it was at the very forefront of long term peaceful deep space exploration. They could spend, in theory, a decade or two away from Federation space The Galaxy Class, of which the Enterprise D is one, is the symbol of what Starfleet thought the next 40 years would be: much like the prior 20, which saw no threats on the horizon. The official "Families on starship policy" was apparently new when Captain Picard took command in early 2364. He had never had families on his ships before and he wasn't comfortable with the idea at all. But in other ways he reflected the entire pacifist / explorer ethos of Starfleet of that era. In the first two seasons (before Q Who), he and Riker were dismissive of the importance of even routine combat readiness drills, thinking it almost beneath them.

    But there actually was a threat. And though the Galaxy-class program ramped up in the 2350s, relations with the Cardassian Empire became deeply hostile and the "Cardassian Wars" began. The Cardassian Wars were low level border skirmishes, and occasional fleet action, but extremely brutal. The Federation committed older, more numerous ships, mostly Excelsior-class (and derivatives) to the war. The Cardassian Wars would start and stop, but the Federation was larger, more advanced and much more powerful than the Cardassian Empire and never acted to decisively end them. While the Cardassian Wars were the formative military experience for an entire generation of Starfleet officers who would become commanders during the Dominion War, they didn't fundamentally change what Starfleet thought the future was going to be: peaceful exploration and a mostly-harmless border skirmish here and there. So Galaxy class building and introduction continued, even as the Cardassian Wars stretched from around 2350 until around 2368 (Season 5 of TNG).

    Families, for starfleet, at this point, made sense. If they're going to send starships into deep space for a decade, families should go too.

    And then everything changed.

    In early 2365, Q arranged for the first contact between the Borg and the Federation by transporting the Enterprise-D to System J-25. The most powerful ship in Starfleet fairs extremely poorly against a single Borg Cube, and is only saved from destruction by Q's last second intervention. Notably, the Enterprise D also had families on board. Upon returning to the Federation, Starfleet becomes alarmed that beyond known space there are hostile threats the likes of which they never imagined and not just "more empires like the Tholians or the Cardassians" or something, and the Federation will come into contact with them at a severe disadvantage. As a result, Starfleet begins laying the groundwork for what Commander Shelby called in "The Best of Both Worlds" a new "Federation Battle Fleet". The Defiant class, the Saber class, the Steamrunner class, the Akira class, the Norway class, and all those new ships seen years later in the Battle of Sector 001 (Star Trek: First Contact) and the Dominion War, got their genesis here. They were all smaller (with a sleeker profile), more agile, faster, heavily armed, and no accommodations for families. Things like Quantum Torpedoes also have their genesis here. The Federation also decides to complete building the final 6 Galaxy class ships (for a total of 12) from their unfinished frames, although with large portions of their internal volume left empty as their primary mission is to be essentially dreadnaughts, and not deep space explorers.

    The first contact with the Borg at System J-25 is a major moment for the Federation. It completely upends security planning going back to the 2330s about the universe they were living in. The return of the Romulans (the last episode of TNG Season 1) a year before First Contact with the Borg further underscores that this "new era of peaceful exploration" they thought they were living in, may in fact, just be a transient era between major conflicts.

    A year after first contact with the Borg, the Borg invade the Federation and engage them at the Battle of Wolf 359. The Federation assembles a fleet of 40 starships, mostly comprised mostly of legacy TOS-era ships such as Miranda Class variants, Excelsior class (and variants), an Ambassador class, and some 2340s and 2350s proto-Galaxy class demonstrators. The "New Federation Battle Fleet" is still in the design stage, as are quantum torpedoes and adaptive shielding. For the most part, it is identical to the fleets that engaged the Cardassians a decade prior. Many ships carry families at this point, in accordance with Federation 2350s policies. The Borg destroy 39 of 40 ships, and kill or assimilate 11,000 people in a couple of hours. Considering many of these ships (TOS Era) had crews of 150-250, a casualty count of 11,000 implies several thousand civilians were killed too.

    If the J-25 incident was a warning, Wolf 359 was the code-red moment for the Federation. Not only was their legacy starships in huge numbers completely inadequate against new threats, but if there is a real such a fleet could be entirely annihilated, families have absolutely no place on Starships.

    The years after the Battle of Wolf 359 lead to a regeneration and massive enlargening of the fleet in response to it. Older Excelsior class starships, like the USS Lakota, were upgraded with next technologies and new weapons. And while the Defiant-class was largely a failure (for a few years still, until it entered production in the 2370s), other new post-Borg classes entered service in huge numbers. Again, these ships were all smaller, with a slimmer perofile, more heavily armed, and more agile, than anything the Federation had produced in about 80 years. Excelsior classes starships are generally bigger than most of these ships, but even the most upgraded Excelsiors like the Lakota could never take them in a fight (DS9 Episode: Paradise Lost). Furthermore Starfleet evidently called back many, many far distant starships that were on long term exploration for retrofit and gave a new security-mission. The Enterprise-D and these recalled ships spend the rest of the 2360s acting largely border patrol as the fleet grew. Exploration kind of takes a back seat, and even the Enterprise-D is put in the role of largely being a "problem solver" ship in the frontier between the Federation and Cardassian Empire. It basically stops exploring far beyond the boundaries of the Federation after mid-2367.

    However Starfleet's primary mission is still exploration, so they complete a limited run of a kind of pre-Borg dead end program, the Intrepid-class (USS Voyager), that incorporates starfleet's then-newest technology, and Galaxy class-legacy technology, in a much smaller starship. The Intrepid-class lacks many the post-Borg technologies, but the smaller size combined with the timing of their introduction (after Wolf 359) make these the first new long duration explorers introduced in decades that don't allow for families, beyond maybe the senior staff. Starfleet makes very few of these ships as resources are focused on building up defense forces. Only 3 are known for sure to exist (Voyager, Bellerophon, and the Intrepid). Also around 2368, Starfleet also lays the groundwork for a new capital ship, the Sovereign class, which incorporates post-Intrepid and post-Borg technology into a new spaceframe that is both highly capable deep space explorer and an advanced dreadnought.

    The Sovereign-class is introduced in 2370, and some other ship is renamed and commissioned in 2372 as the USS Enterprise-E. Here we are kind of full circle. The Enterprise E is the most advanced long-duration explorer in the fleet, but with a smaller crew, and less science facilities than the Galaxy-class Enterprise D. It is also the most powerful combat vessel Starfleet has ever introduced. Also unlike the decade prior, Starfleet is in mass production of "post-Borg" battlefleet ships (Defiant class, Akira class, Saber class) along side it, not only to fill out their general security needs, but because the Dominion War is on the horizon. But the Enterprise-E, in contrast to the D, represents the final rejection of the "families on starships" mid 23rd century philosophy, because although it is largely the same crew as the Enterprise D, families are not allowed on it, not even among senior officers. The reduced science facilities also points to Starfleet breaking up the exploration job. Instead of an "all in one" as the Galaxy class was, instead Starfleet sees the Sovereign class, in its explorer role, as a kind of heavily armed "discovery ship", while smaller dedicated science ships of the Nova class (USS Equionox) or Rhode Island class follow along later to do "in depth study" of what was "discovered". This implies a kind of segregation of skill-sets of crews themselves depending on the ship's purpose (something real navies do).

    When the Borg returned a year after the Enterprise-E's activation (Star Trek First Contact), they fought in the Solar System in the Battle of Sector 001. The Borg faced a fleet largely composed of post-Borg contact ships (in reality, this is because ILM made new ships for the movie), but also faced some pre-Borg contact ships as well. These ships were either part of (just) pre-Dominion War Solar System defense fleet and/or were in various stages of construction / maintenance when the Borg arrived. There is at least 40-50 ships, and while around 20 were lost, they had a decisive victory this time, as with the arrival of the Enterprise E (hero ship ofc!), they managed to militarily destroy the Borg cube. This implied that the Federation's military build up since Wolf 359 had been overwhelmingly successful. But again, none of these ships had families, so losses were far lighter than Wolf 359. This Battle took place in the closing months of the Dominion-Federation Cold War. The Dominion War, the largest war in galactic history (by a lot) was on the horizon about 3 months later.

    On the eve of the Dominion War, the fleet inside Federation space has probably quadrupled in size (or more) in the past few years as old ships were reactivated, new post-Borg ships were mass produced, and deep space ships were recalled for potential combat duty. In contrast to the 40-ship fleet at Wolf 359, Dominion War engagements see Federation fleets with 100-400 starships. Many of these are Excelsior class, Miranda class and post-Borg battlefleet classes. The "Combat-grade" final 6 Galaxy class also fight often in the war, in a dreadnought role. No ships at this point have any families. That is out of Starfleet policy, as their focus right now is on security, not exploration.

    After two and a half brutal years of war, the Alpha Quadrant alliance wins the Dominon War, but Section 31st post-war projection turns out to be on point. The Klingon Empire took the worst of the war, and it will be a generation before they rebuild. The Federation took heavily losses, but (like the United States after World War II) ended the war with the largest most powerful and capable "military" it ever had... the clear superpower of its time. The Romulan Star Empire entered the war very late, and its losses were comparatively light. The post-Dominion War political situation sees a Federation that won the war, and ended strong, but also incurred severe damage and loss of enormous resources, competing against the Romulan Star Empire that is flush with new post-war ships (the Valdore-type) in anticipation of a new Federation-Romulan Cold War. The subsequent coup against the Romulan Senate by Shinzon of Remus, the success the Enterprise-E had in stopping the Reman attack on the Federation, and then, in 2387, the destruction of Romulus when the Hobus Star went Supernova, evidently ended the threat of new Federation-Romulan Cold War.

    ---

    So now there you have the "real world" and the "fictional" versions. Let's kind of put them together.

    Aside from Rick Berman, Star Trek between around 1989 and 2006 went through a lot of hands. A lot of writers and a lot of producers. The original TNG staff all kind of quite in disgust for one reason or another, but the season 3-7 staff was kind of a Dream Team. The DS9 staff took half the dream team, and was allowed to do its own thing in syndicated TV land, while the flagship show on UPN, Voyager, took the other half, and brought new people in. Enterprise in the end, kind of was the Voyager production crew with some new people.

    Star Trek never really had any "plan" because of how many hands its been through. The internal consistency was owed to long term production staffers, usually on the visual side, and Rick Berman (Executive Producer). But not really the writers, who didn't really carry over show to show. A lot of the "rationalizations" that are in the fictional version above is one such writer (arguably the best) filling in a the blanks between a lot of competing motivations and episodes and lines over 600 episodes of TV that never had any kind of "master plan" to it.

    Case in point, Rodennberry's original ideas about the "world" of TNG - highly philosophical stuff - also would have made for bad TV. The enormous fleets of the Dominon War? Those were done by the visual artists contracted out to produce them, because the scripts imagined far smaller fleets. And they were only made possible because Deep Space Nine's last three seasons arrived EXACTLY when it became economical to do CG like that for television (compare to TNG season 4 space combat).

    Families, much like the Hotel Lobby look of the Enterprise D bridge, was a Roddenberyism the production staff was stuck with, that they abandoned as soon as they could make their own shows set in the Starfleet Universe. One look at the Voyager bridge shows you exactly how staffers thought a "Star Trek" show could look better on TV visually. As soon as they could change it, they did.

    There is so many aspects this is the case. Nobody ever really even loved the design of the Galaxy-class. It's an odd looking ship. Not to mention it's sheer volume is such that the show never really captured it (unlike the NX-01, where it felt like we've seen basically every room of it). As soon as the staff could go smaller and sleeker they did.

    I do think Ron Moore's fictional history of "how families happened" is pretty great though. It's entirely consistent with TNGs portrayal of the 2360s Starfleet Admiralty too, which is to say, highly incompetent, terrible at everything, and regularly caught with their pants down. There is a kind of a real world analog, (though in subsequent years) with how defense professionals and experts convinced themselves and our elected leaders after 9/11 that US security needs henceforth would be "counter-terrorism" and things of that nature, and there wouldn't be a need anymore for Cold War style forces. And now where we are, 18 years later, and we can't build ships, missiles and warplanes fast enough, due to the threat of Chinese expansionism. The more accurate historical analog, one Ron Moore probably was referencing (he's a history buff) was how US disarmament after World War II was rapidly reversed when the threat of the Soviet Union became more manifest, but it took years to reverse.

    In short, I think the issue of families on the Enterprise, is a fascinating way to look at the disorganized, but strangely cohesive in the end, the Rick Berman era of Star Trek came to be, and also a fascinating way to look at the Federation and Starfleet's fictional history.

  20. #40
    Because it created some interesting potential for stories. Was it a bad idea in a logical, in-universe way? Of course. Does that actually matter? Of course not. I'm glad they did it. If it irritates you because of the illogic, like an itch you can't scratch, I'm even gladder. Stupid utopian ideas which would fall on their face irl are part of what made Trek Trek. The death of that aspect of the series is partly why contemporary Trek is glossy trash.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •