Babies wanted: Nordic countries crying for kids

[Topornic]

We have a similar thing in America only we embrace immigration and immigration is expected to produce all the people we need and more. Plus are social programs are crap and inexpensive for the most part.

There will be fewer young people to bear the increasingly heavy burden of the welfare state."

You see - back in the old days people wanted to have kids also because they wouldn't get retirement and other bullshit welfare - they wanted someone to take care of them later. Right now you don't need to even marry to have sex, don't need kids to care for you when you age because others' kids will pay for you in taxes. Women don't need men because they need to work anyway (woman can't stay at home even if they want in most cases because her husband is taxed for over 40% of his income and usually wouldn't be able to support whole family) and they don't need anybody to support them, and if they get pregnant they don't need a father for the kid because the state is going to make some other men pay for your kids in welfare.

People actually don't need other people in their lives because the state is doing their job.
How about:
1. You stop fucking exploiting people with enormous taxation and other burdens that they need to bear so that some lazy fucks can get things for free?
2. You stop the degeneracy and female "empowerment" along with divorce law being in favour of women to make men actually consider marrying to have children instead of getting free sex without marriage everywhere?

[Swalload]

When you have machines that can make everything people need to survive for a fraction of the price of what people would make them for, and all of that excess money is just being funneled into profits instead of into taking care of the people who can no longer do those jobs, you have a problem. There, how's that? Tax the rich and people who use automation to replace people and funnel that into welfare.

But you have a very tight balance here. If you tax people who use automation too much they just won't use it cuz it's not worth it, they'll keep human employees just for the sake of profit to avoid the automaton taxes, which then slows technological evolution down. That's like saying everyone who bought an alarm clock the very first time should have been forced to pay extra taxes to send the guy who used to yell to wake people up on a good welfare program (yes that was a real job before alarm clocks). Also if these automaton taxes aren't enough to cover the price then what now? People will need to find jobs anyway. Who knows, maybe the lack of zero education jobs will push mankin to a new height, it could be a new step of our species evolution. We won't know until we do it.

Jobs have come and gone all the time throughout history, technology has already replaced a shitton of jobs, maybe there's a bigger wave coming but this evolution has been in motion for a pretty long time.

[The Stormbringer]

But you have a very tight balance here. If you tax people who use automation too much they just won't use it cuz it's not worth it, they'll keep human employees just for the sake of profit to avoid the automaton taxes, which then slows technological evolution down. That's like saying everyone who bought an alarm clock the very first time should have been forced to pay extra taxes to send the guy who used to yell to wake people up on a good welfare program (yes that was a real job before alarm clocks). Also if these automaton taxes aren't enough to cover the price then what now? People will need to find jobs anyway. Who knows, maybe the lack of zero education jobs will push mankin to a new height, it could be a new step of our species evolution. We won't know until we do it.

Jobs have come and gone all the time throughout history, technology has already replaced a shitton of jobs, maybe there's a bigger wave coming but this evolution has been in motion for a pretty long time.

Or we'll have people unable to find work and pressured more and more, eventually reaching a boiling point in the form of protests and riots breaking out all over the place.

If you don't ensure that the people who are being displaced have opportunities, if it's not a GUARANTEE, and there are very large numbers of people in trouble? You're going to get dangerous backlash.

[lummiuster]

They should let more migrants come in. They make a lot of babies

[Independent voter]

Is that down 40K including the money you save from her full-time child care services + her running errands + her making meals + her cleaning up around the house, or not including those?

That's true, but you notice when your family income drops $40,000 a year. You have to implement your own austerity program, you can't buy frivolous stuff anymore.

[Swalload]

Or we'll have people unable to find work and pressured more and more, eventually reaching a boiling point in the form of protests and riots breaking out all over the place.

If you don't ensure that the people who are being displaced have opportunities, if it's not a GUARANTEE, and there are very large numbers of people in trouble? You're going to get dangerous backlash.

Well yeah, but are we gonna force ourselves to never have automaton just to avoid backlash from one generation? We're not alone here, this isn't just for us. Maybe do it gradually or only replace people going out in retirement with robots until the whole process is done?

[The Stormbringer]

Well yeah, but are we gonna force ourselves to never have automaton just to avoid backlash from one generation? We're not alone here, this isn't just for us. Maybe do it gradually or only replace people going out in retirement with robots until the whole process is done?

'Backlash from one generation' could be enough to topple entire nations and cripple global economies. Gradually would be a good idea, but doing it with people going into retirement won't work because most people who are retiring aren't in jobs that are easy to automate.

[Celista]

People typically do not have children when they feel as though they cannot afford them. If people truly feel that this is a problem, then the solution is to incentivize child-rearing. Tax cuts, social support programs, heavily subsidized child care are all potential solutions.

My personal opinion is that this is in no way an actual issue, as we are going to experience a global population crisis and telling people to produce more children due to certain countries producing less children is akin to not seeing the forest for the trees.

If you want more babies, take away women's rights. Make them housewives and mothers again, not worker bees.

Yes let's make women slaves, that is the obvious solution.

I think we should start taking away the rights of people who ask for the rights of others to be taken away, maybe it will prevent them from making dumb forum posts.

[NED funded]

Everyone has a price. Make them more appealing (offer more money, more time off, discounted groceries).

This changes period fertility not lifetime fertility.

Thats a different beast you cant bribe women into.

[Cizr]

Mostly because eastern European's that come here and are shitty and abusive to their children get slapped over the face by a nation that values children's rights over the rights of abusive parents.

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Wow, right wing politician wants the peasants to multiply so they can give more tax cuts to the already wealthy.

Nope thats not what is happening at all. Barnevernet is simply stealing kids,ignoring their and their parents rights and makes up retarded excuses.

[Lochton]

There was a time when one family member could support a family, soon as those days disappeared there was instantly less incentive for people to have kids.

You still can in Scandinavia. Plus the countries offer you money for being a parent.

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So give people some real incentives to have children. Give them more money, more time off, free child care, etc. You’re asking people to completely change their lives and become parents to help their country, so those incentives better be worth it. That’s a huge thing to ask of people.

If you're talking about Nordic countries, then childcare is free, education is free, you are given money for being a parent till the child is 18.

The problem is, you have more and more people who are more centered on themselves and careers, feeling calm enough and fine how they are, and then you have the ones who are terrified of bringing a child into a world like it is now.

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We have a similar thing in America only we embrace immigration and immigration is expected to produce all the people we need and more. Plus are social programs are crap and inexpensive for the most part.

And Nordic countries embrace immigration, expect integration and reward it so.

[netherflame]

It's interesting to see stories like this at the same time as UBI/robotic workforce stories circulate.

If automation replaced even half of the workforce predicted by experts, western birth rates cease to be a problem. In fact, lowered birth rates to the point of replenishment are desirable at that juncture.

Next couple of decades are going to be interesting.

The problem with the idea of the robotic workforce is that there is no way to understand how those people whos jobs have been replaced will be able to afford any goods or services to live at a most basic level. The idea that business are going to be ok with being taxed to fund the lives of those people that no longer are employed is a pipedream.

[The Stormbringer]

If you're talking about Nordic countries, then childcare is free, education is free, you are given money for being a parent till the child is 18.

The problem is, you have more and more people who are more centered on themselves and careers, feeling calm enough and fine how they are, and then you have the ones who are terrified of bringing a child into a world like it is now.

Having a child is no longer really necessary to a lot of people. It's not a matter of survival anymore, and a lot of people don't give a shit about continuing their lineage. There's also, I imagine, a slight correlation with religion having less effect on peoples lives. Having a kid has mostly become a thing that people do because they like the idea of having a kid rather than out of any sort of obligation.

[Magicpot]

I’m honestly confused as to why there even is a stigma. If your country’s economy is on the brink of collapsing due to low birth rates, why they hell are people still viewing having children as a negative thing? Everyone has to be aware of the dire situation they’re in.

The country's economy collapsing due to inverting age pyramid is a distant and decentralized threat, while culture and the notion of cultural shame is personal. People dont give a shit if it doesn't affect them directly right now. And even then it's easier to blame others rather then change your ways.

Turns out being a stay at home mom is a comparably thankless and unfulfilling job, especially if you have all the opportunities in the world waiting for you. I have friends that originally wanted children, but now that their careers are starting up, they really dont anymore. Because having your own income, making your own career, is less stress and more societally recognized and less dependant on other people then just having lots of kids.

Having a child is no longer really necessary to a lot of people. It's not a matter of survival anymore, and a lot of people don't give a shit about continuing their lineage. There's also, I imagine, a slight correlation with religion having less effect on peoples lives. Having a kid has mostly become a thing that people do because they like the idea of having a kid rather than out of any sort of obligation.

I'm one of those people. Now I'm a man and technically not in charge of having kids, but I would never have kids in today's climate. They take away free time, income and induce stress. Even if I would love them, the sheer amount of freedom I simply would not have with kids around anymore is staggering. Right now life is comparatively pretty fucking sweet and from watching my coworkers have kids its a strictly losing proposition.

Who gives a shit about legacy we'll all end in the void of nothing anyways, with or without kids.

You sound like a Quiverfull which is kind of disgusting.

These movements are sadly on the rise because it turns out one side effect of female empowerment is the fact that it's not obligatory in a woman's life anymore to perpetually endure the bullshit of a man to be supported, and a large population of single guys is the result.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Pretty easy Fix, start getting married and pumping out babies, give a tax break to people who get married and have kids.

we already have that, lots of it too. Not to forget that parents in Norway (men too) gets paid leave to be with their child. Child support until kids are 18 (older if kid has disabilities). We also have free 13 year education (minimum). Dental healthcare is free until you're 18 (sometimes longer). Healthcare is always free...

The 'problem' isn't because of low birth rates in Norway but the absurdely high birth rates in the post war era, we call it "Eldrebølgen" (wave of elderly) because the generations before us have fucked us over... LITERALLY!

[ThrashMetalFtw]

See: https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/ea...ise-birth-rate

When Ashley Park started her marketing job at a Seoul drug-maker she had a near-perfect college record, flawless English, and got on well with her colleagues - none of which mattered to her employer once she fell pregnant.

Nine months after she joined, Park said, "They said to my face that there is no place in the company for a woman with a child, so I needed to quit."

All the women working at the firm were single or childless, she suddenly realised, and mostly below 40.

Park's case exemplifies why so many South Korean women are putting off marriage and childbirth, pushing the country's birth rate - one of the world's lowest - ever further down.

Earlier this month, Seoul announced its latest set of measures to try to stem the decline, but critics say they will have little to no effect in the face of deep-seated underlying causes.

Many South Korean firms are reluctant to employ mothers, doubting their commitment to the company and fearing that they will not put in the long hours that are standard in the country - as well as to avoid paying for their legally entitled birth leave.

When Park refused to quit, her boss relentlessly bullied her - banning her from attending business meetings and ignoring her at the office "like I was an invisible ghost" - and management threatened to fire her husband, who worked at the same company.

Nobody sane actually thinks women having babies is the problem in this story though.

This backwards abomination of a workculture is.

[Lochton]

Having a child is no longer really necessary to a lot of people. It's not a matter of survival anymore, and a lot of people don't give a shit about continuing their lineage. There's also, I imagine, a slight correlation with religion having less effect on peoples lives. Having a kid has mostly become a thing that people do because they like the idea of having a kid rather than out of any sort of obligation.

Indeed. Nowadays it is more a luxury choice. You don't need to have one, we've weeded out the mentality of, 'I MUST LEAD ON MY BLOODLINE!' attitude. We're finally in a term of life where people don't feel the pressure, and they can take it in the time they wish.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Nope thats not what is happening at all. Barnevernet is simply stealing kids,ignoring their and their parents rights and makes up retarded excuses.

I work in education and I've called Barnevernet (child protection) multiple times as well as being called for as witness or write reports... I'm even considering working in Barnevernet, they do a job that is insanely important. From experience in schools I'd say 1 in 20 parents shouldn't be allowed to have kids, there's so much fucking neglect going on to children in Norway- mostly because parents don't have the fucking time to be parents...

[Freighter]

Uhh... Yes we do. We're a country of immigrants. There is just a GIANT waiting list to get in, "legally", from people all over the world. We tend to let in 2-3 million people, legally, each year. What other country does that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...migration_rate

USA has 15.94 per 1000, Singapore has 74.91 per 1000. Norway has 46.96. Australia has 45.01. Canada has 33.84.

Don't tell me you embrace migration. You barely have any immigration compared to some other countries.

[Cizr]

Barnevernet only takes children when there is really bad neglect, or if children are in danger of being harmed by the parent. Or maybe that is just business as usual in Slavic nations?

And why the fuck would a government organization steal the kids of Igor the gentle and Artyom the serene? What in the name of satans portion would they have to gain from that? We already have enough Polish and Latvian's in our prison. Why the fuck would we want to raise your brats as well?

No you are lying. Some of their reasons for stealing kids : kid was sad (because its grandma was dying), kid taken away because it got into fight with other kid,false claim that kid was molested (parents have to prove that they are innocent,no "innocent until proven guilty" here),kid taken away because its mother is deaf,kid taken away because family is too religious...

Barnevernet is widely critized

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norweg...lfare_Services

https://saveyourchildren.in/a-new-bb...slev-skanland/

They are known for abusing kids,preventing them from reaching out to their real parents and even falsifying its reports.


Also nice nation bashing lol. Are you comparing criminals to children?