What if the entire races fought each other?

[darkoms]

Elune herself? Seriously? Elune is much, much more powerful than Archimonde, she can single-handedly defeat all the others, how, under this condition, can people not vote for night elves?

[mickybrighteyes]

Elune herself? Seriously? Elune is much, much more powerful than Archimonde, she can single-handedly defeat all the others, how, under this condition, can people not vote for night elves?

probably because we've never seen elune really help the nightelves >.>
edit:

i mean the op says elune will participate, but that's somethign that's never been seen in game.

[Schattenlied]

so plague tech, similarly talent mages, far better recruitment and reinforcements, and you're still giving the nod to humans... I don't know what to say...

They have 2 Guardians of Tirisfal on their side (at least, if they have all 4+ then it's no contest at all), yeah, I'm still giving it to them.

actually it should be a point of concern, unless you're just going to ignore reinforcement and view each thing as a winner take all and damn the outcome. If the after events are to be considered human are possibly the most frail and easily subdued by simply environmental concerns.... having enough supplies and personnel to take into the next fight is also a major point of contention. Not every faction can employ the method of attack to throw bodies into the meatgrinder and expect a positive outcome.

The battlefield is one valley, they don't need to concern themselves with localized environmental damage... The blight can be controlled for the duration of the fight, we know this, therefore it doesn't matter.

by "reinforcement" I assume yo mean forsaken rezzing new people, problem is they need to kill people and then secure the ground they are on, and protect the Valkyr while they do the rezzing... You really think the Guardians are gonna let them do that? This isn't a war of nations, it's one localized battle, they aren't gonna have time for that shit mid fight.

I'm not going to argue the power of a guardian, i'm going to argue the limitation that there are guardians numbering less than 5 and they can't be everywhere at once.

They don't need to be, read the rules outlined by the OP, this is one battle in one local area.

If we're talking chess, they're unquestionably on the level of "queen" pieces on the board.

No, they are unquestionably on the level of "delete half the opponent's pieces".

That said, the forsaken "pawn" pieces are just plain better than the "pawns" the humans can fall back on.

Not better enough.

and death among personnel for undead is about teh same as simply going back to wake up the fallen again.... unless the bodies are utterly destroyed, that is, there is literally nothing in the lore preventing repeat raising of undead. And if you can't bring back that specific entity or soul, the body can still be animated for another unit.

Only if they can actually reclaim the bodies, which as I've explained above, they aren't gonna have time for that.

go ahead, unless it's specifically a strain that melts flesh and bone and taints the land for generations.... it's just the equivalent of a short nap for the forces caught unless you're also able to wipe out other the source of raising

See above.

do remember how stratholme fell from the presence of a disease and not because a valkyr/necromancer went in raising everyone, those bodies got back up after they fell.

That was the Plague, which the Forsaken have very specifically never been able to replicate.

So really, forsaken got:
better rank and file military

Barely, and a much, much, much smaller starting force, which means it wouldn't be too far fetched for them to be wiped out entirely before they can even begin the reinforcement process, when faced with Guardians.

better management of personnel

How do you figure?

roughly the same mage support

Not even close, their numbers are far far fewer.

worse hero unit

By a nearly incalculable amount.

better specialists
better tech support

Why, because of the Blight? we've been over this like a broken record.

if it's human vs undead the final line for human defense is teh guardian and paladin support cause they're behind everywhere else.

Final line of defense... lol, yeah, because they are gonna WAIT to use their best shit.

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't you remember when Kultiras said the same shit about the Alliance? Or when the Draenei changed their name cause they're no longer those "Eredar"?

I thought this was an "Entire Race" not who's friends with who war. Yet you're giving the Draenei the people who sided with Sargeras and the people who didn't, but not the undead when they were all apart of the Scourge... :O

Can you stick to the same logic for each race?

The forsaken aren't a race, they are a faction.

[mickybrighteyes]

They have 2 Guardians of Tirisfal on their side (at least, if they have all 4+ then it's no contest at all), yeah, I'm still giving it to them.

they wouldn't have all of them... some of those are elves.

The battlefield is one valley, they don't need to concern themselves with localized environmental damage... The blight can be controlled for the duration of the fight, we know this, therefore it doesn't matter.

then we are discussiing to VERY different fights. I'm thinking full all out war across the entire world not some simple skirmish in a valley. When supply lines, logistics, marching orders and such come into play... the undead have way too many advantages to be ignored and pointless engagements with ecxess casualties just serve to add to the undead sides rank and file.

Yes in your version of a single valley, your idea of guardian superiority would work. In my larger scope all out war, not so much.

by "reinforcement" I assume yo mean forsaken rezzing new people, problem is they need to kill people and then secure the ground they are on, and protect the Valkyr while they do the rezzing... You really think the Guardians are gonna do that? This isn't a war of nations, it's one localized battle, they aren't gonna have time for that shit mid fight.

That's teh thing, various sources of undead raising hasn't all required specific sources of death or a necromancer present. Simply having the living succumb to death by any means (exhaustion, infighting, disease, starvation, etc)

They don't need to be, read the rules outlined by the OP, this is one battle in one local area.

very well... but not that it means everyone at once, which means you have your guardians fighting elven guardians and being otherwise occupied with such nuisances as draenei magictech. That added mayhem lets such chaos as raising dead of any source possible

No, they are unquestionably on the level of "delete half the opponent's pieces".

you keep saying this, but it seems every nation has this between warlocks that litterally ripped a planet apart, inventions that level cities or rip reality or render the life of a region unto nothing.

Not better enough.

i reiterate, unflinching, unfeeling, immediately acts upon orders, no sleep, no eating, no shitting, no wasted time, no breathing.... and this is the foot soldier. no need to worry about injuries unless it renders the unit non-functioning. This is unquestionable superior if we're looking at just rank and file military regiments.

Only if they can actually reclaim the bodies, which as I've explained above, they aren't gonna have time for that.

yes... though honestly any bodies dropping might be getting reanimated just being nearby.

That was the Plague, which the Forsaken have very specifically never been able to replicate.

forsaken forces were using it in the andorhal events during cataclysm

Barely, and a much, much, much smaller starting force, which means it wouldn't be too far fetched for them to be wiped out entirely before they can even begin the reinforcement process, when faced with Guardians.

not as small as you'd think. They're either second or third largest depending on the numbers for ironforge considering they're a a chunk of what was lost when the seven kingdoms were going to shit. The key thing is the raising portion. if that's allowed to take place, they just start pulling from whoever they run into. Be it human, draenei, elf, dwarf etc.

How do you figure?

the whole cult of personality and unwavering devotion to their dark lady. Not like humans who get swayed by whoever gives them more benefits.

By a nearly incalculable amount.

they're as broken as blight is but blight is able to be deployed by more than 5 units.

Why, because of the Blight? we've been over this like a broken record.

actually you keep saying blight. My broken record is "unthinking, unfeeling, monsters that never tire, never eat, pursue their target till it dies"
But yeah, forsaken have their own line of tech they use while humans fall back on dwarven and gnome support in their military ranks. If dwarves and gnomes are off on their own... there goes the mighty human side tech as we've seen


edit: and I said pallies were their final line because that was the only unit capable of really answering the issue of the undead foot soldiers besides the super powered guardians.

note I have yet to even bring up the banshees who's sole reason for existing seems to be to posess people and turn them against their own. incorporeal bitches who pass through walls and seemingly render themselves immune to magic....

[Schattenlied]

they wouldn't have all of them... some of those are elves.

Only one of the guardians we know of was not full human, Alodi, and he was a half human, which means he would either be there (2 copies of him, one fighting for Humans and one for High Elves) or not, but that still leaves 3, at least... The 4 named are just the ones we know about.

then we are discussiing to VERY different fights. I'm thinking full all out war across the entire world not some simple skirmish in a valley.

Then you shouldn't be in this thread, follow the rules outlined in the OP or there is no point in posting.

Yes in your version of a single valley, your idea of guardian superiority would work. In my larger scope all out war, not so much.

Your larger scope doesn't matter because it's off topic.

That's teh thing, various sources of undead raising hasn't all required specific sources of death or a necromancer present. Simply having the living succumb to death by any means (exhaustion, infighting, disease, starvation, etc)

None of those are available to the Forsaken, the only way they have to raise undead are Valkyr and maybe some necromancers to raise mindless ones...

very well... but not that it means everyone at once, which means you have your guardians fighting elven guardians and being otherwise occupied with such nuisances as draenei magictech. That added mayhem lets such chaos as raising dead of any source possible

And the undead woudl be dealing with the same shit, without guardians on their side, with fewer numbers, and every force they are facing have mages to counteract the Blight with frost spells.

you keep saying this, but it seems every nation has this between warlocks that litterally ripped a planet apart

Which were only accomplished through very, very lengthy rituals, none of which could be performed in this kind of fight, they simply wouldn't have the time.

inventions that level cities or rip reality or render the life of a region unto nothing.

all of which require physical delivery... A lot more time and effort than just casting a spell.

i reiterate, unflinching, unfeeling, immediately acts upon orders, no sleep, no eating, no shitting, no wasted time, no breathing.... and this is the foot soldier. no need to worry about injuries unless it renders the unit non-functioning. This is unquestionable superior if we're looking at just rank and file military regiments.

And yet in the lore their combat ability has not really been shown to be superior because of it.

forsaken forces were using it in the andorhal events during cataclysm

I'm gonna need a source on that. But it doesn't matter, the OP specified blight, not plague.

not as small as you'd think. They're either second or third largest depending on the numbers for ironforge considering they're a a chunk of what was lost when the seven kingdoms were going to shit. The key thing is the raising portion. if that's allowed to take place, they just start pulling from whoever they run into. Be it human, draenei, elf, dwarf etc.

Assuming they have time.

Not like humans who get swayed by whoever gives them more benefits.

None of that matters in this scenario.

they're as broken as blight is but blight is able to be deployed by more than 5 units.

They are far, far more broken than Blight, by orders of magnitude.

Let me put this into perspective for you.

Deathwing was afraid of Medivh, despite Medivh being weaker than his predecessors due to spending much of his power constantly trying to resist Sargeras' influence.

When the Gurubashi attacked Stormwind with an army so massive they were quickly winning an assault on a fortified Stormwind, while Stormwind was garrisoned by all of the kingdom's combined military, Medivh decimated that entire army, by himself, without the mastery or control over his power that his predecessors had.

actually you keep saying blight.

No, you've been bringing it up a lot, and you're the one who started bringing it up as if it were some unstoppable force.

[MikeBogina]

The forsaken aren't a race, they are a faction.

And neither is draenei a race, it's a faction.


Seriously though, what's your point? OP included Forsaken, obviously not as Human so then it must be undead, which in game is what their race is stated as... so thus the inclusion of Scourge.

[Schattenlied]

And neither is draenei a race, it's a faction.


Seriously though, what's your point? OP included Forsaken, obviously not as Human so then it must be undead, which in game is what their race is stated as... so thus the inclusion of Scourge.

The scourge are a separate faction.

His use of Draenei instead of Eredar is likely because he, like most people, doesn't realize they went by a different name before... Everyone knows the Forsaken and Scourge aren't the same faction.

Go by that the OP has stated, in the listing for Draenei they clearly meant Eredar by listing them as pre-legion corruption on Argus... And when they said Forsaken they listed things that clearly meant post split with the Scourge.

[MikeBogina]

The scourge are a separate faction.

You must have missed the part where he includes others who are a "separate faction" when he includes the height of the Kaldorei, or the Eredar before Legion. The height of the Kaldorei and Eredar include many people who are in different factions today. Naga, Nightborne, Eredar demons(the majority of the race) so why wouldn't the Scourge be included since at one point the Forsaken members were apart of the Scourge?

Everyone knows the Forsaken and Scourge aren't the same faction.

And yet this is not what the OP's scenario is about. It's the same races, height of their power, fighting other races at the height of their power. Also the Forsaken were apart of the Scourge at one time...

And when they said Forsaken they listed things that clearly meant post split with the Scourge.

And yet we're still including post split Eredar... post split Kaldorei... post split Trolls... Post split Humans... post split Orcs

[Schattenlied]

You must have missed the part where he includes others who are a "separate faction" when he includes the height of the Kaldorei, or the Eredar before Legion. The height of the Kaldorei and Eredar include many people who are in different factions today. Naga, Nightborne, Eredar demons(the majority of the race) so why wouldn't the Scourge be included since at one point the Forsaken members were apart of the Scourge?

because the Op specified otherwise.

And yet this is not what the OP's scenario is about. It's the same races, height of their power, fighting other races at the height of their power. Also the Forsaken were apart of the Scourge at one time...

The forsaken are not, and have never been, a race... They are a faction of several races that are cursed with undeath.

Adhere to the scenario presented by the OP and stay on topic.

[etheldald]

Team draenei in this setting is extremely unbalanced. like jesus, the eredar? kil jaeden? velen? archimonde?
Those 3 are monsters they win no doubt.

Team human seems to be really strong here,like if demigod tier mages aren't enough then what about aegwynn, the most powerful mortal in the history of azeroth.

The orcs have no chance versus two guardians of tirisfal not even guldan or thrall.

the kaldorei empire is also another strong contender. thanks to azshara, the current most powerful mortal in azeroth,with tyrande and malfurion.

So i would say
Eredar>Kaldorei>humans>orcs>trolls every other one is pure thrash. like forsakens would be annihilated by paladins and mages would negate the blight in a second they stand no chance and neither the belfs considering that they descend from the kaldorei.

[Ramz]

imagine being so wrong you resort to SEMANTICS to try and save face.

no one cares about your ignorance, they had a military that includes INTER-DIMENSIONAL SPACE-SHIPS, magical warriors, and magi powerful enough to tear the souls of the dead from the grave to be given new bodies.

And they got owned by Tiki Masks in Drustvar. They might've fight demons on various planes but they were not prepared for THAT.

Anyway chill, I got corrected because I didn't read that OP actually meant entire pre-corrupted eredar. This is why I though he meant regular draenei + Lightforged.

- - - Updated - - -

....

It was OP's mistake. Because by saying Draenei it already means the exiled part from eredar population. If he said "pre-corruped eredar" it would make a change. Saying draenei already means that we only take into consideration the Velen's refugees and Lightforged.

[mickybrighteyes]

None of those are available to the Forsaken, the only way they have to raise undead are Valkyr and maybe some necromancers to raise mindless ones...

seems like a real bullshit oversight when looking at the list giving Draenei pre-draenei numbers/tech and post draenei allegience to Naaru. but I digress. I assumed blight meant all it's incarnations due to their repeated study of the original plague and various strains shown throughout the storyline ranging from the caustic mess used a wrathgate, explosive form used on murlocs in fenric isle, what was used in gilneas that couldn't really kill worgen, the strain used in stormhiem that apparently mutated living things into volatile monstrosities. Hell why not argue their entire tech tree built of the work of the apothecary business that is responsible for their blight creation. I mean Mr. "humans have guardians so they win!" when that is the work of gnomes and elves and humans all imbuing their power into a single being.

And the undead woudl be dealing with the same shit, without guardians on their side, with fewer numbers, and every force they are facing have mages to counteract the Blight with frost spells.

true but you seem to think magic is an instant win when the guardian is literally the only real magic powerhouse humans have without pointing out bullshit human potential. Draenei, elves (blood and night), and gnomes all have magisters on par with or more knowledgable (not hard when the average age among the species predates the entire civilization of mankind by a good millenia or 6

And yet in the lore their combat ability has not really been shown to be superior because of it.

yeah we only just have to have a story about every other greedy person trying to become a lich for the benefits of undeath like every 4th quest or so. Pepper a zone with another nigh indesctructible undead being who hangs on because no one destroyed his final left pinky toe through which he still remained grounded and sentient

I'm gonna need a source on that. But it doesn't matter, the OP specified blight, not plague.

Latent Disease is the quest where they gather samples of plague material from wildlife in WPL. The material gathered is then turned into drums and deployed against living farmers in the region.

No, you've been bringing it up a lot, and you're the one who started bringing it up as if it were some unstoppable force.

I discussed it because you discussed it and it was referenced as something they have. You said the guardian could handle it and I started off saying the mages could disperse it after it was used and not out right counter it.

If you want to call me out for being a broken record it's on assuming that presence of blight meant more than just 'blight' alone and including anything shown for building, transporting, deliverying (like catapults, specialized containers, blight throwers, etc), protective gear, and any research that was involved with the acquisition and utilization of said blight.... and my repeat mentions of the vague benefits of undeath (tireless, emotionless, murder beings that never need to eat or breath and any notion of fuel is handwaved away because 'reasons'.

Now I note you keep exalting magic to such a degree, but sort of just glossed over the mention of near magic immune incorporeal beings that possess people as an available counter to your historically possessed gnome/elf empowered mages.

[Schattenlied]

I assumed blight meant all it's incarnations

It does, the Blight and the Plague are two different things, the Forsaken were trying to replicate the Plague, which they never had, and came up with something entirely different in the process, that thing was named Blight. It has a different name for a reason.

I mean Mr. "humans have guardians so they win!" when that is the work of gnomes and elves and humans all imbuing their power into a single being.

Take it up with the OP, I didn't make the rules of the scenario.

true but you seem to think magic is an instant win when the guardian is literally the only real magic powerhouse humans have without pointing out bullshit human potential.

If you don't like the lore, take it up with Blizzard. You don't get to arbitrarily declare their magical abilities non-canon, that's not within your rights, because you don't own the IP.

And even if you DID want to declare their magical abilities non-canon you'd be nutering every Forsaken mage as well, because, surprise surprise, 99% of them are humans.

yeah we only just have to have a story about every other greedy person trying to become a lich for the benefits of undeath

Never dying of old age is a strong motivator.

like every 4th quest or so. Pepper a zone with another nigh indesctructible undead being who hangs on because no one destroyed his final left pinky toe through which he still remained grounded and sentient

Are you trying to insinuate that every undead has the power to self regenerate like a Lich does? They don't, and becoming a Lich is not something just anyone can go do.

Latent Disease is the quest where they gather samples of plague material from wildlife in WPL. The material gathered is then turned into drums and deployed against living farmers in the region.

Tissue samples from things infected with the plague =/= the plague.

I discussed it because you discussed it

You brought it up first.

and not out right counter it.

There are quests in the game right at this very moment in BFA where the Blight is neutralized with fire before deployment, you really think beings as powerful as the guardians wouldn't be able to prevent it's deployment? Those catapults don't have that much range.

handwaved away because 'reasons'.

Yes, because you keep asusming, despite beiong told repeatedly, that this is a total war scenario, it's not, it's a single battle, 90% of those benefits are irrelevant here.

Now I note you keep exalting magic to such a degree, but sort of just glossed over the mention of near magic immune incorporeal beings

It is specifically stated that they can only maintain that immunity for a very short time.

that possess people

Which requires physical contact, against the ultimate Mary Sue of the Warcraft universe.

[mickybrighteyes]

It does, the Blight and the Plague are two different things, the Forsaken were trying to replicate the Plague, which they never had, and came up with something entirely different in the process, that thing was named Blight. It has a different name for a reason.

to include any products use in the production and research.

Take it up with the OP, I didn't make the rules of the scenario.

interesting choice of argument there. You think your option is such an instant win over literal gods

If you don't like the lore, take it up with Blizzard. You don't get to arbitrarily declare their magical abilities non-canon, that's not within your rights, because you don't own the IP.

I think this argument is best directed at you since you seem to forget that without gnome/dwarf support humans are just a foot infantry with a shitty cavalry and magister support... Why am I saying this? because Gnomes and dwarves aren't fighting alongside humans in this scenario.

Are you trying to insinuate that every undead has the power to self regenerate like a Lich does? They don't, and becoming a Lich is not something just anyone can go do.

they can be patched up or transfer to new bodies.... be it surgically attaching body parts together (Before the storm or abominations) or some sort of soul transfer (varies for plot and individuals in question), some seem to be able mend broken bodies magically in a fashion not unlike typical holy healing. The main thing is that literally ANY undead can take grievous bodily harm far above and beyond what mortal flesh can take AND STILL FIGHT. Shock from blood loss? not an issue. Lost a limb? not an issue... head removed? may need some attention but might not put one's arms and legs out of a fight.

Tissue samples from things infected with the plague =/= the plague.

samples from beings infected with plague confirmed, labs and research material is in their ball park as evident from the multitude of strains of blight

You brought it up first.

as it was listed as available to forsaken and my interpretation is the numbers game Blight on top of better groudn troops and pulling reinforcements from the fallen as well as having the most bullshit infantry modifier (blight throwers) available for deployment? yeah. the human nations that fell to scourge arguably outnumber the orcs, the troll factions outside zandalari, gnomes and elves... my argument wasn't that the BLIGHT was the OP angle it was the undead troops forming their military. Yuo then chimed in that a guardian could counter blight because Jaina did so in battle for lordaeron.... she did such a good job countering the already successful blight dispersal that literally broke the entire alliance fighting force paladins, mages and all.

There are quests in the game right at this very moment in BFA where the Blight is neutralized with fire before deployment, you really think beings as powerful as the guardians wouldn't be able to prevent it's deployment?

considering all it takes to take one down is a knife and a bit of arrogance? Or a friendly face with said knife... you know, the more I look at this the better those Banshee seem for countering guardians. Possess someone, walk in. #welcometostabtown.

Yes, because you keep asusming, despite beiong told repeatedly, that this is a total war scenario, it's not, it's a single battle, 90% of those benefits are irrelevant here.

O I'm sorry I don't agree with your bullshit "humans get copies of unique unit that can only exist one at a time and is a literal I win at everything because I say so" argument. Mr. "blight fails cause guardians counter it".... like for real and you want to call others out for being broken records (on subjects they aren't even repeating except when responding about because it keeps getting brought up)

It is specifically stated that they can only maintain that immunity for a very short time.

doesn't need to be long when you just need to run up and melt someone's mind with sonic vibration... or jump into a body

Which requires physical contact, against the ultimate Mary Sue of the Warcraft universe.

not a hard feat for beings that traverse reality like it's not there.

Just a quick head count... 4 canon guardians? none with true sight. at least 2 have been possessed and one of whom didn't know till too late.

I think your insta win idea is very poor and you're better off backing the shiny chime gods who turn vaguely less than good an eat universes.

[Schattenlied]

to include any products use in the production and research

No. They did not have the Plague.

interesting choice of argument there.

Interesting choice of argument? I'm not the one trying to change the rules of the scenario, take it up with the OP.

literal gods

The only literal god on the field is Elune, and we have exactly 0 information as to how strong she may or may not be. I can't make a call on her with no information, and even then I already said she would be the only reason the Night Elves would possibly win.

I think this argument is best directed at you since you seem to forget that without gnome/dwarf support humans are just a foot infantry with a shitty cavalry and magister support... Why am I saying this? because Gnomes and dwarves aren't fighting alongside humans in this scenario.

I haven't, you just keep thinking I have. Your assumption is incorrect.

And "shitty" is an utterly incorrect way to describe Human cavalry units, which were regarded by even the Orcs to be extremely formidable and deadly even to them during the first war (in which Stormwind had 0 support from any other nation, including Dwarves and Gnomes)


Their magister support is also far from shitty. You yourself called Elven and Draenei mages "mini guardians" and the lore specifically states that regular Human mages are just as strong as Elven mages.

they can be patched up or transfer to new bodies.... be it surgically attaching body parts together (Before the storm or abominations) or some sort of soul transfer (varies for plot and individuals in question)

None of that can be done quickly. Again, this is a single battle, not a prolonged war.

head removed? may need some attention but might not put one's arms and legs out of a fight.

Gonna need a source on that.

samples from beings infected with plague confirmed, labs and research material is in their ball park as evident from the multitude of strains of blight

Having samples of the plague doesn't mean they can reproduce it, and in fact they can't, they've tried and failed every single time.

the human nations that fell to scourge arguably outnumber the orcs, the troll factions outside zandalari, gnomes and elves..

Not even remotely true, you know nothing of the lore if you think this. In the first and second wars the Horde rolled over everything south of Tirisfal, read Chronicle 2.

Also, the blight is not the plague, again. The Scourge only accomplished what it did because it spread the plague to almost every city before the humans even knew it existed.

considering all it takes to take one down is a knife and a bit of arrogance? Or a friendly face with said knife... you know, the more I look at this the better those Banshee seem for countering guardians. Possess someone, walk in. #welcometostabtown.

Yes, I'm sure the most powerful mages on the planet by several orders of magnitude would not notice the magical presence of the banshees. /s

O I'm sorry I don't agree with your bullshit "humans get copies of unique unit that can only exist one at a time and is a literal I win at everything because I say so" argument

It's not my argument. I didn't write the scenario, the OP did, and in case you haven't noticed I'm not the OP.

If you have a problem with the scenario presented by the OP, that's too bad, that's the topic of the thread, you don't get to change it, if you want to make a different scenario go make your own thread. Stay on topic, or don't participate.

like for real and you want to call others out for being broken records (on subjects they aren't even repeating except when responding about because it keeps getting brought up)

I gave you the counter, and you keep repeating the pre-counter arguyment as if I haven't already countered it, yes, you are the broken record.

doesn't need to be long when you just need to run up and melt someone's mind with sonic vibration... or jump into a body.

It does when banshees are rather obvious, they'd be seen coming from a mile away.

not a hard feat for beings that traverse reality like it's not there.

Just a quick head count... 4 canon guardians? none with true sight. at least 2 have been possessed and one of whom didn't know till too late.

Banshees are not shades, they don't have invisibility, they would be seen before they got in range to possess anything.

I think your insta win idea is very poor

i think your understanding of this game's lore is very poor. No, I know it is.

If you can't stay on topic, I'm just going to put you on my ignore list, I have no interest of further discussion with someone who has to try to change the scenario of the thread to fit their argument. Stick to the scenario outlined by the OP, it is not yours to change. If you want to make your own scenario, make your own thread.

[MikeBogina]

because the Op specified otherwise.

What if the entire races fought each other?
The races will fight at their full power.
Forsaken

Nope, he specifies that these are races and will fight with their full power.

The forsaken are not, and have never been, a race... They are a faction of several races that are cursed with undeath.

Doesn't matter, OP used them in Race fighting with full power, thus the OP is considering the Forsaken a race.

[Schattenlied]

Nope, he specifies that these are races and will fight with their full power.


Doesn't matter, OP used them in Race fighting with full power, thus the OP is considering the Forsaken a race.

OP specified Forsaken, not Scourge, they did not say undead, they said Forsaken. If you think they have made a mistake, ask them for clarification, do not assume when all information provided, including details to what they have available (them having Blight, not Plague, the Scourge would have the Plague) says Forsaken.

[MikeBogina]

OP specified Forsaken, not Scourge, they did not say undead, they said Forsaken.

Draenei.

If you think they have made a mistake, ask them for clarification

and yet that's exactly what I was doing when you replied to me. But please, do take your own advice.

His use of Draenei instead of Eredar is likely because he, like most people, doesn't realize they went by a different name before.

Go back to debating with others over who you think will win, I'll stick to how OP bent the rules for some and not others.

[Akka]

The Draenei stomp. Argus was the most advanced civilization in the cosmos and the Eredar are one of the oldest species in the universe and have the strongest affinity to the Arcane. Besides, they would have the Vindicaar, the Aurobos, the Xenedar, and Tempest Keep all in the same valley. Yeah, they would win. I'm not even a Draenei fan but it is undeniable that they have the strongest weapons and most advanced technology out of any playable race, so much so that Blizzard had to write the Vindicaar out of the story to make the war fair.

Just look at Alternate Draenor. The Draenei and Naaru managed to conquer the entire continent with barely any opposition, that's insane.

And yet they were defeated by the Legion, and then by the Orcs. Technology in WoW is pretty pointless

[Schattenlied]

Draenei.

And then they immediately went on to specify additional things that widened the scope, they did not do that with the Forsaken, they specified nothing that widened the scope, they listed things that were unique to the forsaken.

and yet that's exactly what I was doing when you replied to me.

No you weren't, the OP had given you their answer and you were just continuing to push the issue.

But please, do take your own advice.

I don't need to, I'm not the one trying to change the parameters of OP's scenario.

I'll stick to how OP bent the rules for some and not others.

The OP didn't bend the rules, the OP made the rules, nothing is bent if that's how they started out.