Stolen Valor Indian Activist Nathan Phillips was not a war vet.

[AeneasBK]

Verbal jousting with MMO-OT's greatest forum performance artist sometimes just doesn't hold appeal to me.

Pretty sure that's whoever writes the scripts for Orlong. . .

[Destump]

The way I saw it, the guy was up in the kid's face, screaming and yelling. The kid was giving off a super smug smile, which is a smile that I've personally used to piss people off. It's a smile that a lot of people I know have used to deliberately piss people off. It's a smile that many in the 150 page thread shared stories where they used it to piss people off. And yet the people in the last thread there were plenty of people denying that a smile could EVER be used to piss someone off. And yet, any of us with a bit of experience in tense social situations knows exactly what a smug smile can do

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Newspeak_words

facecrime – An indication that a person is guilty of thoughtcrime based on their facial expression

lol.

[Piglord]

I don't know if these have been posted(if so ignore), but someone dug up an interview from Jan of last year where he does claim in country status.

[I Push Buttons]

In unrelated news, Huffington Post laid off all of their opinion piece writers today because their business is failing.

[Deadite]

The kid's don't matter. The fate of this country in years ahead won't be decided on the grounds of a group of underage idiots caught on video and a dodgy indian activist.

The fight against Trump does matter though.

Consider, what is the 'win' condition here for the anti-MAGA side. To show that these kids were being racist somehow... and then what? And what's the win condition for the MAGA side? To show that the kid's were being normal kids. And then what? Moral victory? Hooray.

Really? Who cares. Big fucking whoop.

Trump is someone who never should have been President. He's been a disaster upon our country. He doesn't take the job seriously. He's betrayed every single principle this country has held dear. He's an unindicted criminal. He may be a traitor to it too. Removing Trump functionally ends a national security incident / moral abomination, and begins the long road to recovery and redemption for this country. The Trump fight, save him or destroy him, has a functionally meaningful outcome. Either Trump survives as President, or he becomes the first American president to go to Prison and the MAGA people get to watch it happen.

I work part time at an anti-Trump PAC. Not a huge one, but one that's had a fair bit of success in the last two years and does a lot of coordination with and between other anti-Trump PACs. While right wing land and their PACs has been messaging about (1) the MAGA kids and (2) Judges on the Court, anti-Trump land has been weaponizing the shutdown against him to great effect. Trump's 34% approval rating. It's going to get worse. Our side isn't playing defense. It's all offense.


So when I say "this doesn't matter", that's not (just) me sneering this dumb episode. It is actually meaningful. I've said for two years destroying Trump will be about getting all the pieces lined up before he's checkmated. I also said that an approval rating in the low 30s or 20s back in early or mid 2017 wouldn't matter. What mattered is his popularity when all the pieces are lined up.

The hour is nearly here. The pieces nearly are. We have a Democratic Congress that will impeach. We have over 20 Republicans up for re-election in 2020, 14 of which are impeachment-friendly. We have a mountain of scandals and investigations. We have flipped witnesses and accomplices. We have a Government Shutdown that is poisoning Trump's popularity. And Mueller closes in.

Do you understand why Pelosi and co will never give Trump his wall no matter what? Get Trump to cave on the wall, and we'll have broken him for good, at a time he can barely stand.

This is how you destroy a President. Siege tactics. We're doing it. Many, many groups are doing it. Politicians are doing it. Law enforcement is doing it. But the key element in this is simple: a lot of people have to hate Trump, at exactly the right time, and fewer people have to like him than before.

And that is why we're messaging on the Shutdown. Not getting paid but having to work is something the people that make Trump a 34%-39% approval rating President, rather than a 24% approval rating President, can understand perfectly.

So when anti-Trump PACs message about the Shutdown and pro-Trump message about the MAGAKids, remember: the kid's aren't a defense of anything. They don't change the shape of the battlefield and force us, the opponents, to alter our approach. Buzzfeed, funny enough, basically did. Another guy at the PAC called it "Premature Ejaculation" last weekend. Because that would have forced us to change our approach.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a decision maker at this PAC or anything. I volunteer and help with programming stuff. It's my side thing. I don't even get paid for it. But the people in charge do messaging for a living, and some have for decades, and they know what the MAGA people are receptive to. They get them. And it isn't the MAGAKids. The MAGAKids and the fight over their immortal souls doesn't have a prize worth winning.

The Shutdown and the Wall does, end of story. And that's why this doesn't matter.

I don't disagree with you that Trump is a terrible president and fair play to you for doing something about it. The thing is tho that i don't really care about Trump as i ain't American. Got enough to worry about with the shitshow that is British politics just now. While plenty of Trump fan will be jumping on this story like a bitch in heat some people are talking about it due to the egregious nature of the journalism. A quick google search a few hours after they ran with the story would have shown the full picture.

I guess some of that can be laid at the feet of Trump. He is such a divisive guy that the media saw the hats these kids were wearing and swallowed Mr Phillips line of bullshit without checking. Thanks to that these kids have had death threats. The school had to get shut down due to bomb/shooting threats. The lunatics from ANTIFA turned up at the school. Celebs were calling for them to be doxxed/punched/killed. Crazy shit all round. These are kids and people are joking about feeding them into wood chippers thanks to some in the mainstream media not doing some basic fact checking? While Trump may be awful so is your media.

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Right and Wrong are opinions ... not facts.

I guess that is true in some cases but nothing Mr Philips said to the media was facts either. If it makes to feel better! *clears throat* Im my personal opinion these kids did nothing wrong.

[lockedout]

I don't know if these have been posted(if so ignore), but someone dug up an interview from Jan of last year where he does claim in country status.

Nathan Philips was also arrested for assault and escape from prison.

[Grapemask]

In unrelated news, Huffington Post laid off all of their opinion piece writers today because their business is failing.

That's fairly disingenuous. Huffington's downsizing is part of basically the entire non-Facebook/Google media landscape of downsizing in the last couple years (especially this last year), because those two companies alone have taken nearly all visitors away from everyone else. NYT and WaPo survived by moving to pay walls, and driving customers to pay through a constant flow of hard-hitting stories. Huffington and BuzzFeed don't really have a model that supports the same, because their viewership is more leaning toward goofy weird shit that people don't want to pay for (quizzes and cat videos).

[Vantheus]

You're making the claim, provide the proof. Maybe next time don't make blatantly false claims while bitching about the media lying to you. It's fucking hilarious how hypocritical you are.

I don't need to provide any proof to you because you ain't shit but why don't you look at Facebook / nativeyouthalliance or the Washington examiner both are showing video of him talking to the camera lying about his Vietnam service, there you go now you can fuck off and go see your proof because you were too lazy to find it for yourself....still hilarious more on? All you had to do was get off your lazy gaming ass and look for yourself... Now leave your keyboard and go give your uncle a kiss goodnight and stop responding you lost....by the way genius there's tons of posts with links to the proof you needed above me, feel free to shut the fuck up now

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Can't believe this thread is still going on. Press made a fuck up. People apologized. Get over it. Move on to things where people fuck up and don't apologize.

[Flarelaine]

I encourage you to skim the last 10 or even 20 pages of that closed 150 page thread Skroe.

Eh, the end was not even the worst. I think it was around and after page 80 where it got the most toxic.

[Slybak]

The way I saw it, the guy was up in the kid's face, screaming and yelling. The kid was giving off a super smug smile, which is a smile that I've personally used to piss people off. It's a smile that a lot of people I know have used to deliberately piss people off. It's a smile that many in the 150 page thread shared stories where they used it to piss people off. And yet the people in the last thread there were plenty of people denying that a smile could EVER be used to piss someone off. And yet, any of us with a bit of experience in tense social situations knows exactly what a smug smile can do.

Anyone who has known a high school bully knows that face. The people pretending this little MAGA piglet is some angel who, to use their words from a different (but related) context, "dindu nuffin," are a bunch of liars and reprobates.

[Darththeo]

Nathan Philips was also arrested for assault and escape from prison.

So he is a jerk, or asshole or whatever you want to call him. The defense of the kids literally all boil down to "Mr. Phillips is scum!" Since when does someone else being bad means that another side did nothing wrong.

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Anyone who has known a high school bully knows that face. The people pretending this little MAGA piglet is some angel who, to use their words from a different (but related) context, "dindu nuffin," are a bunch of liars and reprobates.

People don't understand that the kid has every reason to lie about why he stood there. People defend him saying he was scared stiff or some crap ... doesn't appear that way from the video. People are saying because he claim it was to attempt to deescalate the situation ... well, if there was danger his actions would have escalated the situation meaning that either the kid is an idiot or was actually attempting to escalate it.

I have seen the face before in my life, always from kids knowingly daring someone to hit him. Knowingly if the person reacts that way, they have won. So should I think the kid is an idiot or should I think the kid wanted to make things worse? If he did nothing wrong, he is an idiot.

[Dadwen]

So he is a jerk, or asshole or whatever you want to call him. The defense of the kids literally all boil down to "Mr. Phillips is scum!" Since when does someone else being bad means that another side did nothing wrong.

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People don't understand that the kid has every reason to lie about why he stood there. People defend him saying he was scared stiff or some crap ... doesn't appear that way from the video. People are saying because he claim it was to attempt to deescalate the situation ... well, if there was danger his actions would have escalated the situation meaning that either the kid is an idiot or was actually attempting to escalate it.

I have seen the face before in my life, always from kids knowingly daring someone to hit him. Knowingly if the person reacts that way, they have won. So should I think the kid is an idiot or should I think the kid wanted to make things worse? If he did nothing wrong, he is an idiot.

Does it matter what face the kid made, he's not the one that went up (and watching the video out of his way) into someone else's face beating a drum in it (hell if Phillips would have pulled that to some of the kids I went to high school with, it would have taken a surgeon to remove it where they would have shoved it *and yes we had some visits from the police, so I'm fairly certain that would have been the outcome) even the clam some of the kids did the tomahawk chop (one of the schools cheers is called the 5 nations so it could have been that too) was after some of the people with Phillip told them to go back to Europe.

*Phillip's also changed his story a number of times of what happened so far nothing the kid has said has been unproven.

[Darththeo]

Does it matter what face the kid made, he's not the one that went up (and watching the video out of his way) into someone else's face beating a drum in it (hell if Phillips would have pulled that to some of the kids I went to high school with, it would have taken a surgeon to remove it where they would have shoved it *and yes we had some visits from the police, so I'm fairly certain that would have been the outcome) even the clam some of the kids did the tomahawk chop (one of the schools cheers is called the 5 nations so it could have been that too) was after some of the people with Phillip told them to go back to Europe.

*Phillip's also changed his story a number of times of what happened so far nothing the kid has said has been unproven.

Doesn't really discount anything I said now does it? If anything you kind of proved that my statements are likely correct.

[Dadwen]

Doesn't really discount anything I said now does it? If anything you kind of proved that my statements are likely correct.

Not trying to dis-prove what you said, saying it does not matter one bit, kid could have made all kinda dumb ass faces at the guy but, it was Phillips that put himself there not the kid.

Name one thing the kid did wrong, he was in no way obligated to move, it seems you have some issues if the face bugs you that much. watching the (full) video the kid made a number of faces when it all went down the "smug looking" one was the one the (now suspended) twitter accounts that posted the edited clip wanted you to see .

*Kid seemed to show pretty good restraint

[SirBeef]

In unrelated news, Huffington Post laid off all of their opinion piece writers today because their business is failing.

Ganett forced layoffs in their online media departments becasue Gannett was losing money. HuffPo, Buzzfeed and others suffered.

[Darththeo]

Not trying to dis-prove what you said, saying it does not matter one bit, kid could have made all kinda dumb ass faces at the guy but, it was Phillips that put himself there not the kid.

Name one thing the kid did wrong, he was in no way obligated to move, it seems you have some issues if the face bugs you that much. watching the (full) video the kid made a number of faces when it all went down the "smug looking" one was the one the (now suspended) twitter accounts that posted the edited clip wanted you to see .

*Kid seemed to show pretty good restraint

Correct, but just because you aren't required to move doesn't mean you shouldn't move. Just because you are "in the right" doesn't mean you are not wrong in your behavior. One talks about a legal sense and the other is what people are actually talking about here. If you argue the kid doesn't have to move, than Phillips approaching the kid isn't wrong either as Phillips has every right to walk where ever the fuck he wants so long as he does not force someone out of his way. Phillips has ever right to prayer, bang his drum, etc. Even the hate groups have a right to sling insults ... you don't have a right to not be offended (at least that is what conservatives always say.)

[JohnBrown1917]

This only makes him cooler, thanks for the tip.
Not like being an american viet vet is something to be proud off.

[Zaktar]

Correct, but just because you aren't required to move doesn't mean you shouldn't move. Just because you are "in the right" doesn't mean you are not wrong in your behavior. One talks about a legal sense and the other is what people are actually talking about here. If you argue the kid doesn't have to move, than Phillips approaching the kid isn't wrong either as Phillips has every right to walk where ever the fuck he wants so long as he does not force someone out of his way. Phillips has ever right to prayer, bang his drum, etc. Even the hate groups have a right to sling insults ... you don't have a right to not be offended (at least that is what conservatives always say.)

"Don't have a right not to be offended"? One too many negatives? Or are you saying we're obligated to be offended =P Just because you're allowed to walk wherever you want doesn't mean you're not an asshole for walking up to someone who is just standing there, and pounding your drum in their face. At any rate that's not really the issue with the story - no one there made an issue of either the kid not moving or the dude banging his drum; the actual recorded events are a complete nonstory. Only real issue is how so many people chose to respond, and that so many are still looking for reasons to paint the people involved as assholes deserving of what they got.

[Darththeo]

"Don't have a right not to be offended"? One too many negatives? Or are you saying we're obligated to be offended =P Just because you're allowed to walk wherever you want doesn't mean you're not an asshole for walking up to someone who is just standing there, and pounding your drum in their face. At any rate that's not really the issue with the story - no one there made an issue of either the kid not moving or the dude banging his drum; the actual recorded events are a complete nonstory. Only real issue is how so many people chose to respond, and that so many are still looking for reasons to paint the people involved as assholes deserving of what they got.

You do not have a right not to be offended ... how is that one too many negatives? Did you think I meant you do not have a right to be offended? That doesn't make sense because you do have a right to feel offended. Or was it you thought I meant you do have a right to not be offended ... which is kinda pointless to say. Just because someone is offended doesn't mean the other person was wrong. Essentially, just because someone offended you means nothing.

My original and still stance on this issue is both parties were in the wrong ... yes, Phillips was worse, but both sides piled on the issue at hand one more than others. The results shows how freaking polarized we are.