[QQ] BoD Raid - Are Fury Warriors going to live in others' shadow again?

[cFortyfive]

Except the majority of your post was complaining about the playstyle of Fury

The playstyle happens to coincide with being terrible mechanically. There is no advantage in having high apm requirements, there is no advantage in having no dots or ranged attacks, there is no advantage in having mostly low hitters, there is no advantage in having nothing to cheese mechanics with and no advantage in having no resource recovery outside of melee. All that does is making the spec more tedious and unforgiving to play and the tuning doesn't compensate for it. There is no objective value in any of those for playing encounters and that you may or may not happen to like how the spec plays doesn't change any of it.

So mythic is all that matters?

Yes. Also why would anyone bother rolling something that's exactly in the same place as in being a mediocre melee with limited space in a mythic especially so when it's probably still worth more to bring a warrior for the 3% to buff the demonhunter and the tanks.

[Seramore]

The playstyle happens to coincide with being terrible mechanically. There is no advantage in having high apm requirements, there is no advantage in having no dots or ranged attacks, there is no advantage in having mostly low hitters, there is no advantage in having nothing to cheese mechanics with and no advantage in having no resource recovery outside of melee. All that does is making the spec more tedious and unforgiving to play and the tuning doesn't compensate for it. There is no objective value in any of those for playing encounters and that you may or may not happen to like how the spec plays doesn't change any of it.

lol what the fuck are you talking about dude.

"there is no advantage in playing a high APM class that doesn't have any dots or ranged attacks, in addition to most abilities hitting softly"

Then play a fucking dot class or another class whose highest damaging ability isn't a resource dump lmao.

[cFortyfive]

lol what the fuck are you talking about dude.

Are you by chance related to youtube big brain nobs?

[Seramore]

Wahh my feelings are hurt because he tells me my favorite spec has bad mechanics but I can't make a single relevant counter argument.

I don't care what your opinion about the spec is lmao, I'm saying the logic is retarded. You're picking apart the mechanics of the spec and are giving subjective opinions behind why you think the spec is objectively suffering in BoD.

[cFortyfive]

I don't care what your opinion about the spec is lmao, I'm saying the logic is retarded. You're picking apart the mechanics of the spec and are giving subjective opinions behind why you think the spec is objectively suffering.

How is it subjective to say that ie having only direct attacks and resource generation tied in parts to being in fucking melee is not a great mechanic? Are you raiding target dummies? Is having a cheese mechanic also just well that's just your opinion good? Come on you must be related.

[Seramore]

How is it subjective to say that ie having only direct attacks and resource generation tied in parts to being in fucking melee? Are you raiding target dummies?

You're literally asking how your opinion is subjective.

[cFortyfive]

You're literally asking how your opinion is subjective.

Sure buddy so I guess it would also be just subjective to say it were better if all abilities fury had had 40 yards range no other changes. Obviously it would in no way be an objective advantage.

[Seramore]

Sure buddy so I guess it would also be just subjective to say it were better if all abilities fury had had 40 yards range no other changes. Obviously it would in no way be an objective advantage.

Yikes .

[cFortyfive]

Yikes .

You should make youtube content you'd be great.

[Seramore]

You should make youtube content you'd be great.

I don't know where you're trying to get at by mentioning YouTube for the third time.

Your arguments make no fucking sense lol. The point you're trying to make with Fury having a 40 yard range is like me saying that all ranged objectively suffer because their abilities have cast times and aren't on demand like melee abilities are. Technically the truth, but also a retarded point to make; melee and ranged both have their objective advantages over each other. Just because Fury doesn't have a ranged ability to use doesn't mean that it's a shitty spec to play this tier.

[Shelly]

The playstyle happens to coincide with being terrible mechanically. There is no advantage in having high apm requirements, there is no advantage in having no dots or ranged attacks, there is no advantage in having mostly low hitters, there is no advantage in having nothing to cheese mechanics with and no advantage in having no resource recovery outside of melee. All that does is making the spec more tedious and unforgiving to play and the tuning doesn't compensate for it. There is no objective value in any of those for playing encounters and that you may or may not happen to like how the spec plays doesn't change any of it.

And yet Fury warriors are still ahead of Unholy and Frost DK, the only two melee classes with a true ranged DoT that recover resources outside of combat range.

Demon Hunters have the exact same APM problem unless you talent into Demon Blades and don't generate their resources unless in melee range either.

Yes. Also why would anyone bother rolling something that's exactly in the same place as in being a mediocre melee with limited space in a mythic especially so when it's probably still worth more to bring a warrior for the 3% to buff the demonhunter and the tanks.

Because they enjoy it, they feel loyalty to their main, they prefer the aesthetics and class fantasy, they have no desire to be a true mythic raider and feel more comfortable at 2/8 or 3/8 than pushing for 8/8, because unless you're truly pushing bleeding edge content the overall raid DPS will even out in such a way as to get you through bosses that have enrage or soft-enrage mechanics.

You have quite the flawed view of the game, class representation and gameplay level of the population.

[cFortyfive]

Demon Hunters have the exact same APM problem unless you talent into Demon Blades and don't generate their resources unless in melee range either.

They have immolation aura, blind fury, a decent ranged aoe, an encounter cheese, possibly the best pve mobility - and also they have a guaranteed spot in every raid for the 5% so that's the coziest melee position you could ever be in. please don't bore me with your roleplayer crap.

[Seramore]

They have immolation aura, blind fury, a decent ranged aoe, an encounter cheese, possibly the best pve mobility - and also they have a guaranteed spot in every raid for the 5% so that's the coziest melee position you could ever be in. please don't bore me with your roleplayer crap.

Please do yourself a favor and just take the L.

[Shelly]

They have immolation aura, blind fury, a decent ranged aoe, an encounter cheese, possibly the best pve mobility - and also they have a guaranteed spot in every raid for the 5% so that's the coziest melee position you could ever be in. please don't bore me with your roleplayer crap.

They do have all of that excepting a decent ranged AoE - eyebeam is not a true ranged attack and glaive throw is nice but not spec defining.

And still have the exact same APM issues that Fury Warrior does.

Anyway, if you want to play a DH go for it. I won't stop you, but please don't come here trying to crap in my cheerios with your FotM only mythic matters attitude.

[cFortyfive]

Please do yourself a favor and just take the L.

Again - you should be a youtube personality with your intellectual prowess.

, but please don't come here trying to crap in my cheerios with your FotM only mythic matters attitude.

Eyebeam suffices to stay out of direct melee hence why it's so comfortable to use. In terms of balance - yes. Your world boss progress and transmog run farm doesn't matter. I don't have to pretend the spec is fine to feel better.

[Jastall]

I just hate how all of our damage comes from one ability.

I wish I could just take that damage and level it off.

I agree with this. I like Rampage, but having it be a good third of our damage by its lonesome out of a dozen sources (counting traits and all) is a bit overkill. Nerf it a bit and increase the damage of everything else, Raging Blow in particular feels slightly limp with no supporting Azerite traits.

Aside from that, I reject the premise of this thread. Fury might not be as dominant as it was during Antorus, but it's still a decent middle of the pack spec that a good player can make shine and has strong burst AoE which is great for Champion, Opulence, Rastakhan and Jaina. Also, even in Antorus where were performed sky-high we still got benched because we're melee DPS. That's just how cutting edge raiding works outside of outliers like Nighthold where ranged DPS cried a flow of tears because they weren't auto-include in every fight.

In every other content apart from super high keys which suffer from even more class stacking problems, Fury performs very well.

[Shelly]

Eyebeam suffices to stay out of direct melee hence why it's so comfortable to use. In terms of balance - yes. Your world boss progress and transmog run farm doesn't matter. I don't have to pretend the spec is fine to feel better.

That's not what a ranged attack is ....

Also say you're fighting the Champions of the Light in BoDA, standing that far back in melee where you are outside of the melee hitbox entirely could actually get you hit by the wave.

Anyway, I'm not asking you to pretend to ENJOY the spec. If it's not your bag it's not your bag, we've already had multiple people offer you less GCD capped high APM specs you can play. Just don't come in here telling me that because I enjoy it that it's garbage, because it's not and your unit of measurement is stupid.

You are measuring binary, 0 or 1 - either it's the best or it's not worthwhile.

That doesn't tell you anything except what is producing the best numbers and leaves out gameplay, resource management, how you feel about the mobility a spec/class has, how you enjoy the class fantasy, how you enjoy the spec fantasy, where the class exists and ranks in terms of gameplay as a whole.

If you'd like to just hold onto your ideals be my guest, but you won't find any support because you're acting like a zealot with an ax to grind for some reason.

Like did a Fury warrior touch your pee pee once? Can you show me on the doll?

[cFortyfive]

That's not what a ranged attack is ....

not having to stand in melee range hence avoiding to the problems that come from having to dodge mechanics.

Just don't come in here telling me that because I enjoy it that it's garbage,

What you enjoy is entirely irrelevant. The spec is painfully mediocre numbers wise and that's being incredibly charitable and melee. I get this reality doesn't matter to you and that's fine so just continue on with your online life and sing some songs travelling through azeroth or have some dates in the goldshire inn and whatever you people do.

hat doesn't tell you anything except what is producing the best numbers

yes - producing good numbers is something that matters to me in the context of tuning and gameplay. A flawed resource system, punishing every second of uptime loss from both having high apm, relatively low burst and no dots whatsoever, no encounter cheese tool - those are fine if the spec is tuned accordingly. Playing a spec with garbage mechanics that's not tuned well is just disappointing. Again - if it isn't to you that's entirely fine but I don't care about your opinion on how normals are fun to play or topping the meter in lfr is awesome.

but you won't find any support

Now that's exactly what I am here for - support from roleplayers and other posters :>

[Zorachus]

Fury is a ton of fun for solo content doing WQs and Assualt's, I feel like a plate wearing machine gun. But then I do a M+8 or [H]eroic BoD raid, and I look cool doing all these lightning quick attacks, but my dps sucks compared to a Ret Paladin or Havoc Demon Hunter.

I tried Arms, with the new 8% buffs, and it seems to hit harder, but there's too many downtime or waiting periods for a spell to be ready, it doesn't happen often, but every now and then, no spell is ready, and waiting for Rage, it's like maybe 1 second or 2 seconds most of wait, then whack away at a few more spells, and then again, a quick wait of one one thousand, and then I'm ready again. And I have that talent picked first row on the left, that gives me more Rage after killing an enemy.

Recap; it seems Fury looks cool and is fun to play, but hits like a wet noodle. And Arms seems to finally hit harder, but the rotation is wonky and some cd issues.

[Shelly]

Fury is a ton of fun for solo content doing WQs and Assualt's, I feel like a plate wearing machine gun. But then I do a M+8 or [H]eroic BoD raid, and I look cool doing all these lightning quick attacks, but my dps sucks compared to a Ret Paladin or Havoc Demon Hunter.

I tried Arms, with the new 8% buffs, and it seems to hit harder, but there's too many downtime or waiting periods for a spell to be ready, it doesn't happen often, but every now and then, no spell is ready, and waiting for Rage, it's like maybe 1 second or 2 seconds most of wait, then whack away at a few more spells, and then again, a quick wait of one one thousand, and then I'm ready again. And I have that talent picked first row on the left, that gives me more Rage after killing an enemy.

Recap; it seems Fury looks cool and is fun to play, but hits like a wet noodle. And Arms seems to finally hit harder, but the rotation is wonky and some cd issues.

Either the folks you're playing with are playing a lot better or you're just playing wrong.

Fury has excellent burst, especially in 4 person cleave situations which is pretty much all trash packs in an M+.

Chances are if you're finding your DPS weak that you just need to use your CDs more often. The CD on recklessness is such that it can be used just about every other trash pack. Siegebreaker is usable at least once per trash pack if not twice as well.

Also would highly suggest you get yourself a Knot of Ancient Fury if you don't already have one. Pretty much everyone now has at least one Azerite Trait of Hot Blood, Cold Steel which really pushes the value of crit up for the class. Remember that each enemy you cleave into after a WW gets a separate crit-roll too so make sure you're prioritizing BT if Rampage isn't up right after you WW.