So, item levels are getting spiked for no reason. Again.

[rhorle]

What's the new dungeon in Battle for Azeroth?

8.2 is adding a "mega dungeon". It will be the size of karazhan in Legion. The only character progression from doing older dungeons in TBC was from badges. To imply otherwise is being daft. No one ran those instances for the actual drops from the dungeons once they were geared from raids. Or professions since many provided BIS for most of the expansion.

[Pua]

The devs have just said that the ilvl boost to this next tier is the minimum that would work. So, if there is a problem with it (and there undoubtedly is, as there are no perfect solutions in game design) it is outweighed by other considerations.

It's not outweighed.

There are other solutions to make, assuming you're smart enough to come up with them.

Take raids, for example; nothing more than a minority activity.

Does it need its four settings from LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic?

Well, no. It doesn't. We already know that Normal and Heroic could be combined into one setting, with 'Mythic' changing to activated difficulties mid-encounter as we saw in Ulduar. So, suddenly, all we've got is LFR and whatever you want to call the one setting. I've no doubt the Mythic-25 people would complain bitterly, but they're such a laughing minority they're not actually worth listening to. A single setting, with half at 'Normal' difficulty and the second half at 'Heroic' difficulty (in a changeable raid size), would be absolutely fine and would remove the argument you're mentioning.

Dungeons? Well, they're the same. There's absolutely no requirement for Levelling, Level Cap, Heroic, Mythic and Mythic+. You could easily remove the Level Cap and Mythic settings, thus taking 40% of the dungeons needed to spike item levels out of the way.

So, immediately, we realise; the problem isn't the game. The problem is its designers.

8.2 is adding a "mega dungeon".

I'll just repeat the question, as it's another that seems to be foxing you:

"What's the new dungeon in Battle for Azeroth?"

So don't predict something nobody has seen any evidence for. Tell me where the new dungeon is actually in the game. I did some WQs today, and didn't see it.

[Echocho]

The devs have just said that the ilvl boost to this next tier is the minimum that would work. So, if there is a problem with it (and there undoubtedly is, as there are no perfect solutions in game design) it is outweighed by other considerations.

It's a problem they themselves have created. In a world without titanforging and regular access to heroic raid quality loot from trivial content a normal mode raider would've been 355 iLvl, they could've added 15 iLvls to every difficulty and normal BoD would've dropped 370.

Now we're instead in a world where everyone except mythic raiders and high m+ pushers has had their character progression completely invalidated.

[Forogil]

8.2 is adding a "mega dungeon".

I'll just repeat the question, as it's another that seems to be foxing you:

"What's the new dungeon in Battle for Azeroth?"

8.2 is part of Battle for Azeroth, but not released yet. The rest of your rant is also devoid of meaningful contribution.

The old style in TBC, Wrath, and Cata of releasing new dungeons that invalidated older dungeons - except for badges - was just odd, since the you did the same dungeons - but without getting meaningful drops.

- - - Updated - - -

Welcome to World of WarCraft that has been like this for 15 years.

Still the best summary of this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

thats why mythic modes should be remvoed from game so that people stopped complaining about having to chase any virtual carrots.

leave those modes for MDI/Race on tournament realms , put financial rewards for for eample first 15 teams each "season" and that all - those 1% of "midcore" players constantly whining about everything wont be missed in game by nobody

I hope you forgot to add a "/s", since the idea cannot be taken seriously.

[Roxxy]

Yeah I agree that titanforging has had a negative impact on my desire to raid, in fact it made me quit the game along with crappy class balance. Because the thing I enjoyed about the game was competing on the dps meters based on skill. Not on how lucky I was or how the devs decided that shaman weren't worth caring about until the first major patch. Gear was just the means to compete and before titanforging everyone in the raid group was nearly the same ilvl. I guess m+ put a bit of a spanner in the works of that too with the whole 'if your lucky you win big but if you're not you can really fall behind'.

Anyways it seems that much of the playerbase doesn't raid (I never realised that raiding was such a niche activity in wow but apparently it is). And blizzard has catered to these masses need to carry on their progression (in order not to unsub and for blizzard to get that sweet dough - when they aren't busy releasing store mounts) and titanforging has given the masses that opportunity. Personally I'm not really interested in progressing my toon like that (hey fred I got lucky today look what I got!). I guess I'm of the 'old school' who enjoyed and thought it was fairer that your character progressed via skill not luck.

Anyways this is probably one of the last posts you will see from me. I don't think of myself as a wow player anymore even though I played faithfully since I discovered the game in wotlk up until a month ago. I'm getting over it, I wish the casual club who enjoy playing the titanforge lottery all the best in their shallow endeavours, though I'm sure to them gambling doesn't seem shallow at all.

Oh yes and I probably wouldn't even sub again if they got rid of titanforging and actually managed to balance classes unless they made the gear treadmill less obvious. In MOP and WOD I didn't notice there was a gear treadmill then legion arrived and I did notice it and then in BFA it just became really, really apparent and the devs started talking about 'seasons' lol. I find it funny that wow, an supposed mmorpg, now has 'seasons' like in diablo. I might sub for classic but I'm not sure. I just bought a whole load of games in the steam Christmas sales so Ill probably enjoy them first and then maybe check out final fantasy.

[rhorle]

I'll just repeat the question, as it's another that seems to be foxing you: "What's the new dungeon in Battle for Azeroth?" So don't predict something nobody has seen any evidence for. Tell me where the new dungeon is actually in the game. I did some WQs today, and didn't see it.

The new dungeon for BfA hasn't been introduced yet. You didn't ask what new dungeon is currently in the game. Not every patch in past expansions added new dungeons either so I don't really get what angle you are trying to argue. One is coming. It is as simple as that. We have seen plenty of evidence for by all the developer talk about it coming.

From the latest Q&A, evidence a bunch of people saw, of a dungeon being added:

Mechagon is a second, smaller zone than Nazjatar, which is the main zone in Rise of Azshara. There is a megadungeon that is similar to Karazhan. Patch 8.2 will go on the PTR shortly after Patch 8.1.5 is live.

[Djuntas]

Went up like 10 Ilvl in a week...thanks <3

Still havent done any mythic+ above like 5, or any raiding and Im soon 390.

[Osmeric]

It's not outweighed.

Obviously they think you're wrong. And frankly, I have not seen anything resembling a good argument from you on the topic.

[Echocho]

Went up like 10 Ilvl in a week...thanks <3

Still havent done any mythic+ above like 5, or any raiding and Im soon 390.

Imagine if you had worked our ass off in season 1 running high keys and mythic raids to get 390 and then find out that you could've just not bothered with it and geared up through catch-up mechanics instead.

[rhorle]

Imagine if you had worked our ass off in season 1 running high keys and mythic raids to get 390 and then find out that you could've just not bothered with it and geared up through catch-up mechanics instead.

Imagine if you had worked your butt off all expansion to clear Mythic raids and then find out that you could have just not bothered with it and came back an expansion later and solo'd or 5-manned all encounters with ease. Content getting outdated is nothing new. It is silly to act like it is if you've played this game for any length of time. Blizzard hasn't required you to gear up in past raid tiers for a while.

[Echocho]

Imagine if you had worked your butt off all expansion to clear Mythic raids and then find out that you could have just not bothered with it and came back an expansion later and solo'd or 5-manned all encounters with ease. Content getting outdated is nothing new. It is silly to act like it is if you've played this game for any length of time. Blizzard hasn't required you to gear up in past raid tiers for a while.

Yes and no. In the past they allowed you to catch up to the lower difficulties, not the highest. It's fine invalidating the lower difficulties because that allows you to catch-up to people who did the entry raids. By allowing you to catch up to people who did the higher difficulties you're essentially telling people that they should do the content once on whatever difficulty to see the bosses and then not bother with character progression because whatever effort you put in will be completely invalidated.

[rhorle]

Yes and no. In the past they allowed you to catch up to the lower difficulties, not the highest. It's fine invalidating the lower difficulties because that allows you to catch-up to people who did the entry raids. By allowing you to catch up to people who did the higher difficulties you're essentially telling people that they should do the content once on whatever difficulty to see the bosses and then not bother with character progression because whatever effort you put in will be completely invalidated.

So you do it once then come back next expansion. Gotcha. Yet you've apparently been playing the entire expansion despite saying there is no reason to play when progression is invalidated. Why? What reason did you play for when you gear didn't matter?

[Echocho]

So you do it once then come back next expansion. Gotcha. Yet you've apparently been playing the entire expansion despite saying there is no reason to play when progression is invalidated. Why? What reason did you play for when you gear didn't matter?

Who said anything about expansions? I'm talking about content patches. You're the only one here talking about expansions. I played 8.0 at a decently high level, then Blizzard invalidated all my efforts 8.1 and I've now quit with no plans on coming back until they fix this shit show of a progression system.

[Osmeric]

So you do it once then come back next expansion. Gotcha. Yet you've apparently been playing the entire expansion despite saying there is no reason to play when progression is invalidated. Why? What reason did you play for when you gear didn't matter?

Shhh. You're not allowed to point out their self-contradictory hypocrisy.

[Pua]

Obviously they think you're wrong. And frankly, I have not seen anything resembling a good argument from you on the topic.

Then read the rest of the post you quoted part of, given that it actually makes an argument that you're completely ignoring.

I already suspect why, of course.

[rhorle]

Who said anything about expansions? I'm talking about content patches. You're the only one here talking about expansions. I played 8.0 at a decently high level, then Blizzard invalidated all my efforts 8.1 and I've now quit with no plans on coming back until they fix this shit show of a progression system.

Because expansions do the same thing. You can't ignore one situation that does the exact same thing and whine about another. And no you did not play 8.0 at a decently high level. 375 is not decently high. Azerite neck of 26 is not decently high. Your perception does not match reality.

[Echocho]

Because expansions do the same thing. You can't ignore one situation that does the exact same thing and whine about another. And no you did not play 8.0 at a decently high level. 375 is not decently high. Azerite neck of 26 is not decently high. Your perception does not match reality.

You are wrong.

[rhorle]

You are wrong.

No I am not. 375 item level is not a decently high level. A level 26 neck is not a decently high level. I didn't even raid outside of LFR and had a higher item level than your character because I put in more effort. Raiding and nothing else is not going to put you at a decently high level anymore. And as for the effort argument I am not wrong either. Why is it different between an expansion and a patch? Effort is being invalidated. You can come back later and do it all easier.

And yet you are saying its not the same thing. Effort is always invalidated if you wait long enough. The point of doing it sooner is because you want to.

[Pua]

No I am not. 375 item level is not a decently high level.

Yes, you're wrong.

375 was high because the only gear that would have been putting you into that during the first patch was clearing (or at least farming) Heroic Uldir; something a laughably small percentage did.

This is why I generally try to avoid speaking to you. You're, quite literally, arguing for the utter garbage that you spout, and that you're obviously wrong about.

Again and again.

Just accept it, for crying out loud. You're talking utter rubbish.

Continuously.

[dcc626]

Yes, you're wrong.

375 was high because the only gear that would have been putting you into that during the first patch was clearing (or at least farming) Heroic Uldir; something a laughably small percentage did.

This is why I generally try to avoid speaking to you. You're, quite literally, arguing for the utter garbage that you spout, and that you're obviously wrong about.

Again and again.

Just accept it, for crying out loud. You're talking utter rubbish.

Continuously.

i ran a 10 every week season 1. i stopped raiding entirely in october sometime. i ended last season at 389. anything is possible.