Loot trading should be removed on both classic and retail

[spxhqtn]

Ninja looting. Abusing for Real money trade.

[hulkgor]

Alrighty then.,

[Pooti]

Classic did not have loot trading.

[spxhqtn]

Classic did not have loot trading.

They've already added this bullshit in the classic demo.

[shade076]

They've already added this bullshit in the classic demo.

Did they actually say they were adding it? Or was it something that they forgot to remove like LFD?

[Pronto787]

This is something that is going to really make groups toxic and destroy the community aspect of the game. I for one know I am not going to be running in a group with anyone in the same guild.

[Heathy]

ahah loot trading is nothing to ppl who need roll on everything, enjoy that, the days when you could roll on any loot and it wasn't restricted to what you can use.

I think that if an item gets handed to the wrong person i'd rather the option of being able to hand it to the right person rather than some arbitrary need to message a GM and get it manually transferred. based on the premise that maybe ppl sell loot, i guess the cure to that problem is to not run groups with ppl who loot trade. problem solved.

if your guild is loot trading, leave the guild.

I think DKP will likely make a come back so it won't be a problem for ppl who are raiding in a guild, with the instance ids pugging isn't going to be as viable as it is today when you're locked to an instance then you are locked to that instance until it resets with no jumping between raid groups. makes pugging very difficult to do if you can't clear the whole thing in one run no one wants to sign up to a pug they won't see the end of.

[Veknazel]

They've already added this bullshit in the classic demo.

They also said that they haven't finished pruning all later expansion features like LFD from that demo.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

They also said that they haven't finished pruning all later expansion features like LFD from that demo.

No, this one is intentionally added. Was discussed at the Classic panel during Blizzcon.
Its being added because loot trading was always possible, but it used to require you opening a ticket and agreeing to trade the item in that ticket to another player, then the item would be removed and given to them after the GM proved they should have gotten it.

This isn't a game play change.
Its being done because they aren't going to reopen a way for them to sink thousands of man hours into shuffling loot around.
It was only that way because they had no better option.
Now they do.

This doesn't strike me as any sort of issue what so ever in Classic, so if anyone has some actual reasons why I should be concerned let me know.

Otherwise, it can NOT be removed from BFA, as the personal loot system and it are married.


My bigger concern is something that was absurdly rampant on Private servers, and that is reserving gear.
If this nonsense becomes commonplace on official classic as well, we will need to be talking about banning master loot from small groups or non-guild groups or something.

Then again, as we are using a Legion client, that might just actually be a thing anyway.

[Heathy]

oh you know that reserved loot is guaranteed to be a thing for pugs, I'd bet a vital organ that ppl will reserve all the best loot, like the bindings, the ingots, the eye and the leaf. assuming ppl actually try to make pugs this time around.

I don't think classic was very pug friendly because of the raid lock out, if the raid goes to shit after 1 boss, you're screwed for a whole week. so it was and probably still will be, better to raid with a guild so that you can try multiple times a week with the same group. while the chances of you managing to join or pick up a pug from a previous day is next to impossible.

[Razzako]

No changes.

[In Ogres We Trust]

oh you know that reserved loot is guaranteed to be a thing for pugs, I'd bet a vital organ that ppl will reserve all the best loot, like the bindings, the ingots, the eye and the leaf. assuming ppl actually try to make pugs this time around.

I don't think classic was very pug friendly because of the raid lock out, if the raid goes to shit after 1 boss, you're screwed for a whole week. so it was and probably still will be, better to raid with a guild so that you can try multiple times a week with the same group. while the chances of you managing to join or pick up a pug from a previous day is next to impossible.

Who cares? Player A (and his or her friends) organize a raid each week that's successful and efficient. Should they lose out on a specific item to a random individual, or should they be rewarded for the effort that they put in week after week after week (bear in mind that the items in question are, in all likelihood, the only reason why they're organizing the groups)?

[spxhqtn]

Otherwise, it can NOT be removed from BFA, as the personal loot system and it are married.

Personal loot does NOT need loot trading. Loot trading wasn't a thing before Legion for personal loot. However, personal had to compete with master loot in Legion and that was why loot trading was applied for personal loot as well. Now, master loot is gone, there is no point NOT to remove loot trading.

[Eon Drache]

They've already added this bullshit in the classic demo.

It did. It just acted differently.

Did they actually say they were adding it? Or was it something that they forgot to remove like LFD?

They confirmed its being added.

For anyone that played Vanilla you'll remember that loot trading did exist but in the form of just making a GM ticket and giving it to your buddy. The 2 hour window is being added so that GM tickets won't be bothered as much with this non-sense as it was a flooding problem back in vanilla.

There was also the problem of accidently rolling on something you couldn't use. Or your friend rolling on the loot so that they could have a gm transfer it.

[Alkizon]

Last seen here:

Since I have already written on this issue, I will simply copy my answer, I have nothing more to add, because everything is quite simple:

Also, don't quite understand controversy about loot trading, since there is boe&bop, and everything else has no relation to Classic. People should be able to make mistakes, responsibility training should be available, there should be opportunity for them to show others that they fully understood error and repent of their actions, this is a guarantee that next time they will think 10 times before they press the button and substitute others. Tradable loot robs them of this everything (this isn't perceived as an error when you can quickly and easily re-decide, so no harm - no learning). This is one of priceless parts of any gaming experience, this is what retail doesn't have. GM has right to intervene in the process if and only if game was mistaken, and not when player did.

As for ninja-looting, none of these options save-from/alter/influence this process.

ps. Smart move to learn from mistakes of others, ordinary move to learn from own ones, bad move don’t see/consider/recognize yourself wrong (learn nothing), but doesn't metter even if we don't/want it, still everyone ever makes mistakes. Game has no right to change this.

US thread about same thoughts here (it's in the quote).

Hey There Guys its Metro
we will need to be talking about banning master loot from small groups or non-guild groups or something.

No, thanks. Then they will have to search for a long time those who will go with them "without complaints" or be more fair ("time spent" punishment).

Heathy
oh you know that reserved loot is guaranteed to be a thing for pugs, I'd bet a vital organ that ppl will reserve all the best loot, like the bindings, the ingots, the eye and the leaf. assuming ppl actually try to make pugs this time around.

I don't think classic was very pug friendly because of the raid lock out, if the raid goes to shit after 1 boss, you're screwed for a whole week. so it was and probably still will be, better to raid with a guild so that you can try multiple times a week with the same group. while the chances of you managing to join or pick up a pug from a previous day is next to impossible.

These all are particular cases of natural orders formation process. People will find golden mean over time, that will balance social ties. Blizzard long time already too often and absolutely shamelessly intrude into natural processes in a completely unscrupulous manner, and everything, absolutely all such actions, went sideways. You should never interfere in a process that you don't understand and clearly don't control.

As for actual, it'd certainly be great, but here we should talk about changing the whole itemization and distribution system and then it'll be possible to safely exclude personal loot, loot trading and return all normal rules. In short, problem won't be solved by a single such change there.

[Heathy]

you have to remember that anyone who shares a raid ID with you can usurp that raid, once everyone leaves you can create new groups and clear raids that you are saved to assuming no-one else is in there. another reason why pugs didn't do so well, if you can't clear the whole raid in one go, the instance can be commandeered by anyone who shares the same lockout. in other words you can ninja whole lockouts from groups that stopped part way or folded. so you have to somewhat trust everyone in the raid, to basically, not do that.

for example if we in this thread were in a molten core pug, which stopped at garr, once everyone leaves, logs off, goes out the instance anyone that was in that instance can recreate the group and clear it. and when the pug goes to finish it off, they'll find all the bosses are dead for the week. pugging just wasn't what it is today.

[barrsftw]

Why though? Its always existed in WoW, why change it now?

[Nnyco]

Better than having to wait for a gm to trade items for you.

[Alkizon]

you have to remember that anyone who shares a raid ID with you can usurp that raid, once everyone leaves you can create new groups and clear raids that you are saved to assuming no-one else is in there. another reason why pugs didn't do so well, if you can't clear the whole raid in one go, the instance can be commandeered by anyone who shares the same lockout. in other words you can ninja whole lockouts from groups that stopped part way or folded. so you have to somewhat trust everyone in the raid, to basically, not do that.

for example if we in this thread were in a molten core pug, which stopped at garr, once everyone leaves, logs off, goes out the instance anyone that was in that instance can recreate the group and clear it. and when the pug goes to finish it off, they'll find all the bosses are dead for the week. pugging just wasn't what it is today.

And this problem already belongs to shortcomings of classic system (entry requirements could be tied to a leading character, but this is only a hypothetical decision (fast thoughts), not a call to change something), but it has nothing to do with problem under discussion.

Why though? Its always existed in WoW, why change it now?

No it didn't.

[siskokid21]

Ninja looting. Abusing for Real money trade.

Both of these things happen with or without loot sharing.