Kul tiran cannonball runner (410 itemlevel)

[clawlancer]

So, in this week i looted a Kul Tiran Cannonball Runner (410 Ilevel), i was happy about this trinket, because i tought with my Outlaw rogue its going to be a huge boost in my DPS, but sadly the Item is bugged, or just the worst trinket ever made in this expansion.

To be clear, i did multiple tests on 10-13+ Mythic instances, and here i am to show the proof for the developers, that this trinket is just messed up.

The example run is a +11 Freehold, where i Made 33k overall DPS, so we can check the trinket.
So at the end of the run, the Overall DPS for the trinket looks like this:

Hits : 635 Times
Overall Damage: 563.7K (lol)
Average Damage: 887 (also lol)
DPS: 383

Normal Non Crit hits: 398
Max: 1,736
Average Damage: 609
DPS: 263

Critical Hits: 231
Max: 3,472
Average: 1,389
DPS: 599

As you can see, these numbers are so low, for the 410 ilevel item, that its just unplayable, if you guys at the developer team want to stick with these low values, at least put some secondary stat on the item , because its just unusable now.
Also it says, if its hitting multiple target, it makes more damage, this part is also broken, it makes the same damage to single, and to multiple targets.

Whats your opinion about this?
Sim: raidbots(.com/simbot/report/iLSqjcYHK8FaBHvNTUziRj
Details! imgur(.com/a/wDQj3K4

[dwarfeckiy]

This doesn't look like a bug report forum to me, tho.

Trinket is shooting gumballs so what did you expect?

[Xalvia]

can't be that bad it seems to be in the middle of the pack if i check on bloodmallet, the flat agi is still there i guess.

but i agree, since the legion expansion long arcano crystal fiasco i question the sanity of the trinket developers

[gaymer77]

First of all wrong forum to report problems with items you feel are broken. This is a FANSITE not a BLIZZARD site. Secondly regardless of the item level, its not even listed as a top 5 trinket for outlaw rogues. Lastly you are reading the text of the trinket wrong. The damage is SPLIT between targets evenly which means single target would deal more damage than multiple targets but the overall damage it does is capped regardless of how many targets it hits. "increased damage when striking multiple targets" means that if it strikes the same target more than one it does more damage the second & third time than the first

[Archmage Alodi]

Working as intended , it's just a shitty trinket.

[Unlimited Power]

"increased damage when striking multiple targets" means that if it strikes the same target more than one it does more damage the second & third time than the first

That's an incorrect interpretation. Blizzard want these trinkets that deal AoE damage to be more powerful in AoE than single target, so if the trinket proc hits 2 or more targets the damage is increased by 75%. That damage is obviously still split across both targets, so even in a 2 target situation, the trinket proc deals less damage to each of the 2 targets than if it hits a single target yet deals 75% increased overall damage.

[Lazuli]

Don't expect coherent design from those retards

[gaymer77]

That's an incorrect interpretation. Blizzard want these trinkets that deal AoE damage to be more powerful in AoE than single target, so if the trinket proc hits 2 or more targets the damage is increased by 75%. That damage is obviously still split across both targets, so even in a 2 target situation, the trinket proc deals less damage to each of the 2 targets than if it hits a single target yet deals 75% increased overall damage.

The tooltip for the trinket clearly says on it "dealing X total Fire damage divided evenly among enemies in a cone in front of it". That means the damage is capped at whatever value X is depending on the item level of the trinket. Total damage dealt means the total from all enemies it hits. Meaning it is SHARED DAMAGE between the enemies. It is basically like soak mechanics for players in a raid. You group up because if it hits 1 person it does all the damage to that one person but if 20 people are there it divides it evenly between all 20 people so no one person takes more damage than the others do.

[clawlancer]

This doesn't look like a bug report forum to me, tho.

Trinket is shooting gumballs so what did you expect?

That gumball thingy is funny.
I Know its not a bug report forum, thats why i was just curious what you guys think about this trinket, made some reports in-game.

[Nathasil]

-

Actually, he did not read it wrong, the tooltip explicitly states that the damage is increased against multiple enemies.

OT:
1) The Trinket does not need a "secondary", it has agility, which is the best passive stat available from a trinket and even as a pure stat-stick COMPLETELY ignoring the procc it is probably still one of your best trinkets, as trinkets are shit overall this expansion.

2) It is important to understand what the trinket actually does. The spawned canon is stationary. So if you continue to move the mobs around (as you usually do in M+) the canon will not hit them.
The procc should be worth 7710 damage (tooltip info @410); which seems to perfectly fit your ~900 avg damage including crits, considering you were probably fighting multiple mobs most of the time it procced. At 2PPM this means the procc is worth 14k DPS.
Also, the canon does damage in a CONE. Which means if the canon is very close to the enemies (as it usually is for melee) the actual area it can hit mobs in is very, very small.

Conclusion: The procc is extremely bad for melee in a RL scenario, it does, however, sim extremely well. Not because it's bugged, but because there is a difference between a sim and a RL situation. You could say Blizzard showed simmig the middle finger designing this trinket.

[clawlancer]

To be fair the biggest damage was Max: 1,736, which is really interesting, because it was proccing in boss fights, i think the damage scaling is not good also.

[Louz]

can't be that bad it seems to be in the middle of the pack if i check on bloodmallet

Bloodmallet is based on simulations, not logs. It presumes the cannon actually hits your target - in reality, the cannon spawns and tanks drag whatever they're tanking away, resulting in 0 damage from the trinket

That's why you should get a damage meter and test your stuff to see whether it's an actual upgrade or not.

Speaking for myself, the trinket that drops from the loa council (agi + phys. bleed) resulted in less damage for me than the 355 crafted darkmoon card, you know the dropping anchor.

[Unlimited Power]

That means the damage is capped at whatever value X is depending on the item level of the trinket. Total damage dealt means the total from all enemies it hits. Meaning it is SHARED DAMAGE between the enemies.

While I was myself not entirely correct in my own interpretation of the "Deals increased damage when striking multiple targets." part of the trinket, I went ahead and found the patch note that supports my argument. This was a change made on the 4th of September to 2 of the similar splash damage trinkets dropping in Uldir:

Disc of Systematic Regression damage and Vigilant's Bloodshaper damage reduced by 10%.
Developer’s notes -- These two trinkets now deal 15% more damage for each additional target they hit, up to 75% increased damage if at least 6 targets are hit. The damage is still split among all targets. Their tooltips will not reflect this change until corrected in a future patch.

Source

While this does not specifically mention the Kul Tiran Cannonball Runner trinket, the hotfix essentially added the "Deals increased damage when striking multiple targets." to the 2 Uldir trinkets, the tooltip was just changed in a later patch. We can thus conclude that if a trinket says it deals increased damage when striking multiple enemies, it likely means the trinkets deal 15% increased damage for each additional enemy struck, capping at 75% increased damage at 6 targets.

[Nathasil]

Actually, he did not read it wrong, the tooltip explicitly states that the damage is increased against multiple enemies.

OT:
1) The Trinket does not need a "secondary", it has agility, which is the best passive stat available from a trinket and even as a pure stat-stick COMPLETELY ignoring the procc it is probably still one of your best trinkets, as trinkets are shit overall this expansion.

2) It is important to understand what the trinket actually does. The spawned canon is stationary. So if you continue to move the mobs around (as you usually do in M+) the canon will not hit them.
The procc should be worth 7710 damage (tooltip info @410); which seems to perfectly fit your ~900 avg damage including crits, considering you were probably fighting multiple mobs most of the time it procced. At 2PPM this means the procc is worth 14k DPS.
Also, the canon does damage in a CONE. Which means if the canon is very close to the enemies (as it usually is for melee) the actual area it can hit mobs in is very, very small.

Conclusion: The procc is extremely bad for melee in a RL scenario, it does, however, sim extremely well. Not because it's bugged, but because there is a difference between a sim and a RL situation. You could say Blizzard showed simmig the middle finger designing this trinket.

Yeah, so obviously 7710 dmg per procc at 2 PPM are NOT 14k DPS. Its 14k DPM (damage per minute) which comes down to ~233 DPS. Which is actually very close to your results.

The damage of the procc is higher against multiple targets and including crits....but it does not specifically say HOW MUCH higher. If it gets 5% more per target it will still be miserable.

Long story short: My previous post about it being good in sims is BS, the procc is just plain weak. The portion about drawing mobs out of the cone is true, but who cares about a loss of 233 DPS at ilvl410? It's simply a weak procc. Still not bugged, though...just working as intended.

[Sandraudiga]

I feel your pain, I had a 390 Tendril of G'huun on week two that wasn't an upgrade over 320 First Mate's spyglass.

[clawlancer]

You should post this in official as it seems to be a bug of some sort. The numbers certainly don't add up for such high item level.

Well i made a post and a bug report via in game tool, and also a forum topic, lets see if they do something I think the numbers are really low, this cant be real.

[Freshouttajail]

[...] and here i am to show the proof for the developers [...]
As you can see, these numbers are so low, for the 410 ilevel item, that its just unplayable, if you guys at the developer team want to stick with these low values, at least put some secondary stat on the item

Hi I am a very official Blizzard dev just surfing the web and I came across your post while waiting for the next Riley Reid upload. I am taking notes right now and will fix all of this for you in the morning. Thank you for using this very official World of Warcraft community forum where no one ever talks about politics, to point out an in-game issue with an item we forgot even existed.

[clawlancer]

try harder next time.

How do you manage to make a fully described bug report via the in game tool when its limited to 500 characters? Also, i told you guys, already did an in-game report, and posted the link for them so they can check the full report on the forums.

[ceall]

So, a few things to mention here:

1. That trinket has X agility, which is worth Y dps.
2. The Z damage it deals is split among all (4) shots a Cannon shoots out hence you only see it doing only ~1.7k hits on single target encounters.
3. Overall damage is higher on multiple targets while individual hits are lower because the damage is split between every target hit.
4. The simulated dps is a combination of the agility and the procc. X agility + Z damage procc = XYZ sim dps.
5. Considering the above points you can be sure that the trinket is NOT bugged.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

can't be that bad it seems to be in the middle of the pack if i check on bloodmallet, the flat agi is still there i guess.

but i agree, since the legion expansion long arcano crystal fiasco i question the sanity of the trinket developers

The arcano crystal was not a fiasco. It did what it was supposed to do. It has higher budget than other proc/on use trinkets