Why didn't Baine challenge Sylvanas to mak'gora?

[Astalnar]

Because story is made up to serve the whims of the writers and not in order to make any sense whatsover. One would think, you'd learn by now. Story in Warcraft comes last, all be damned.

[Mardux]

a bullet in the head worked. so i assume that is the same with an axe.

This is assuming that even if Baine had ground to stand on and she accepted the challenge, she wouldn't choose magic as her "weapon", which would be about as stupid as Baine challenging her in the first place.

She could just go incorporeal and that axe would be useless.

[Mehrunes]

Because he'd lose. I think it's as simple as that. Like it or not, at this moment Sylvanas is the most powerful leader the Horde has.

This. And because of that, Baine the Coward, knowing he'd lose, shat his breaches at the mere passing thought of challenging Sylvanas. So he let himself be captured (which, by his own argumentation during Garrosh's defense, was Sylvanas being lenient because as per said argumentation of Baine himself, she had more than enough grounds to execute him on the spot), hoping his god-boiking Blanduin the Blessed-boned will save him for his service to his overlords from Proudmoore family.

While we haven’t seen a lot of actual feats from this guy, he is still a tauren and Cairn’s son. If we exclude magic from the fight, I think he could have had a chance.

Sylvanas is strong enough to rip a wolf's head off with her bare hands. The amount of force needed to rip off a human head is about the same as the amount of force that is required to hit a human with one hit (to more vital areas like head or chest, but still). And while Tauren are more durable than humans, which would increase the force required to repeat that task with them, wolves have more muscular necks than humans too.

[etheldald]

This is assuming that even if Baine had ground to stand on and she accepted the challenge, she wouldn't choose magic as her "weapon", which would be about as stupid as Baine challenging her in the first place.

She could just go incorporeal and that axe would be useless.

i don't think that she can be incorporeal forever.

[Mehrunes]

As a revealed traitor to the Horde at the time, I don't think Baine has the weight of authority to issue a true Mak'gora - everyone would see it through the lens of him attempting to escape punishment, not prove the rightness of his claim. He's no doubt aware of this fact himself which is why he doesn't issue the challenge, it's bad optics for him no matter what he does. You seem a similar situation with Ga'nar and Durotan in WoD, Durotan ignores Ga'nar's challenge because he knows it arises from emotionality without any loss of face to himself.

Committing treason (in the form of disobeying a direct order from his superior) didn't stop Saurfang from contemplating challenging Sylvanas to a Mak'gora though.

[schwank05]

Because he is a pussy bitch, He knows he would lose. Then the Tauren could get a real racial leader, Magatha Grimtotem, as much as I loved Cairne. She is the leader the Tauren need now.

[Mehrunes]

i don't think that she can be incorporeal forever.

The only thing we have on her incorporeality is that she can do it at will and a comparison to Kitty Pride from X-men (who can do it for quite some time).

I Know you lore fans want an detailed answer for everything, but I think the reason is a game play reason, IE they aren't finished with either character and therefore neither can die. the tale between sylvanas and baine is a tale of 2 path diverging away from eachother and the the new player choice their offering they can now allow the player to choose there own path, this is really and powerful story telling concept that would be ruined if they killed off one at such an early stage, that why they imprisoned baine but immediately kill thomas Zeiling.

What you described isn't a "gameplay reason" by any stretch of the term. You described a story reason, particularly a situation where you're excusing the situation with the future story Blizzard wants to tell. Which is a really poor excuse for Blizzard forcing the story on an illogical path to get to that destination at all cost.

[Aucald]

Committing treason (in the form of disobeying a direct order from his superior) didn't stop Saurfang from contemplating challenging Sylvanas to a Mak'gora though.

It did, though. He didn't see his acts as treasonous, per se; but his agreement with Sylvanas' campaign cost him the needed weight of authority to make the challenge which is why he didn't. Mak'gora isn't just a crude implement designed to challenge authority, a claimant needs a base on which to stand - Saurfang had none, he had agreed to the path Sylvanas had laid out.

[Kwento]

Sylvanas is strong enough to rip a wolf's head off with her bare hands. The amount of force needed to rip off a human head is about the same as the amount of force that is required to hit a human with one hit (to more vital areas like head or chest, but still). And while Tauren are more durable than humans, which would increase the force required to repeat that task with them, wolves have more muscular necks than humans too.

And that’s why I’ve said “a chance”.

[Mardux]

i don't think that she can be incorporeal forever.

She wouldn't need to stay that way forever. She can phase shift at will, see axe coming and shift then shift back (like the twins from the matrix).

Or stay shifted just long enough to put Baine down, which shouldn't take long with her other "magic" powers like flight, telepathy, mind control and drain life.

[Mardux]

It did, though. He didn't see his acts as treasonous, per se; but his agreement with Sylvanas' campaign cost him the needed weight of authority to make the challenge which is why he didn't. Mak'gora isn't just a crude implement designed to challenge authority, a claimant needs a base on which to stand - Saurfang had none, he had agreed to the path Sylvanas had laid out.

By "the path sylvanas had laid out," are you talking about the march on the Nelf capital?

[RangerDaz]

Why didn't anyone, including Voljin, challenge Garrosh to Makgora in MoP? They waited until WoD to do it.

I think Makgora is an Orc only tradition, which could help to answer this.

[Aucald]

By "the path sylvanas had laid out," are you talking about the march on the Nelf capital?

Basically the war itself, yes. He agreed to start the conflict, declaring Mak'gora at that point would've just been arguing over specifics or undesired outcomes. His position was weak - his initial thought was prompted solely by outrage, and outrage isn't enough to declare true Mak'gora.

[Mardux]

Why didn't anyone, including Voljin, challenge Garrosh to Makgora in MoP? They waited until WoD to do it.

I think Makgora is an Orc only tradition, which could help to answer this.

Mak'gora is an orc custom, but you don't have to be an orc to challenge or be challenged. Ashra Valandril (a blood elf) challenged Shagara and lost. Varok challenged Malfurion, but Malf attacked before the duel began.

[ZazuuPriest]

because hes a pussy

[Mardux]

Basically the war itself, yes. He agreed to start the conflict, declaring Mak'gora at that point would've just been arguing over specifics or undesired outcomes. His position was weak - his initial thought was prompted solely by outrage, and outrage isn't enough to declare true Mak'gora.

The idea to march on and attempt to take the Nelf capital came from Saurfang himself.

[Kumorii]

He knows he would lose regardless if she cheats or not.

[LazarusLong]

Because as much as a softy, he is. he is not a fucking moron?

[Aucald]

The idea to march on and attempt to take the Nelf capital came from Saurfang himself.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Saurfang agreed to the terms of the war, and took part in its execution. It was only an unforeseen outcome (the burning of Teldrassil) that prompted him to consider Mak'gora against Sylvanas - but his standing was weakened by the fact he had not spoken out until that point. He lacked the standing to challenge her when he himself had originally agreed to the war, especially as the current course had directly or indirectly been a product of his own actions with regard to Malfurion.

[Mardux]

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Saurfang agreed to the terms of the war, and took part in its execution. It was only an unforeseen outcome (the burning of Teldrassil) that prompted him to consider Mak'gora against Sylvanas - but his standing was weakened by the fact he had not spoken out until that point. He lacked the standing to challenge her when he himself had originally agreed to the war, especially as the current course had directly or indirectly been a product of his own actions with regard to Malfurion.

I gotcha. I misunderstood you at first. But yeah, i agree with you. Saurfang coming up with the plan gives him even less ground than just agreeing with the plan.

Coupled with the burning of the tree being a direct result of his actions (or inaction in this case). Yeah, she ordered it to be burned, but she did it because Saurfang chose to let Malfurion go.