Why does Blizzard make trinkets like incandescent sliver?

[huth]

Agree, raid trinkets have been trash for ages now.

Funny how ages don't even last a year now.

[MrExcelion]

Not the original person you replied to, but wanted to say that the difference with Draught and Tidestorm is that Draught was actually really good, and the proc was worth using (as a Warrior anyway). Draught was strong enough to bruteforce a lot of stuff in NH. Tidestorm sims really far low for everyone right now

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#mage_fire

Though I shouldn't probably mix "design" and "potency" together, but for me the potency is definitely apart of the appeal.

[FelPlague]

Not the original person you replied to, but wanted to say that the difference with Draught and Tidestorm is that Draught was actually really good, and the proc was worth using (as a Warrior anyway). Draught was strong enough to bruteforce a lot of stuff in NH. Tidestorm sims really far low for everyone right now

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#mage_fire

Though I shouldn't probably mix "design" and "potency" together, but for me the potency is definitely apart of the appeal.

I mean it is middle of the pack, not horrible. cause remember these run off "if everything is equal ilvl"

so yes while middle of the pack, the top ones are much more rare to get so...

[MrExcelion]

I mean it is middle of the pack, not horrible. cause remember these run off "if everything is equal ilvl"

so yes while middle of the pack, the top ones are much more rare to get so...

Actually I should pick on Crest of Pa'ku more when linking the Fire graph, haha. It does a bit better for specs that actually like to stack some Haste but it's still underbudgeted enough on the haste proc to not be top tier. That said, Codex is actually far worse than the graph suggests because you're going to be using something like a Balefire/Badge/Fuse ideally and double use trinkets results in a very significant dps drop. Codex is also a bit higher for the Fire graph because you can pair it with Combustion for a guaranteed crit, but in reality you're going to be using it with the above mentioned. Yeah, the raid trinkets are meh overall. Would be nice if there was a top tier option on the level of say, the 2m Badge PVP trinket. Sliver isn't even usable on the later mythic fights, but I don't have huge qualms about the trinket itself. Just wish Codex and Pa'ku were stronger. Or I dunno, put a 4th trinket in the raid too for more options. (many armor slots in Uldir you just had like one option for whatever reason)


My personal opinion, and it's just an opinion, is that tier sets shouldn't have been removed and we should still have trinkets on the power level of previous xpacs. If they're going to take away tier sets for an xpac, alright, but at least make all the trinkets OP. PVP already has a viable alternative with the Badge on use. Use that as a baseline for raid trinkets rather than being 700 dps behind.

[Zyky]

Is blizzard ever going to make good raid trinkets again or is this the new norm?

Considering Sliver is a top tier trinket for most casters and healers your statement is invalid. You just have to be a good player maximizing potential on most fights and on stack fights have leadership that's competent enough to create a second stack group of just people with said trinket.

[Shelly]

I really don't get it, like every fight in the raid requires stacking and you make a dps trinket that... doesn't do anything while stacked?

Like yeah, you can play around the trinket, but the vast majority of players literally do not have the awareness to do this, your average player is likely not capable of using this trinket.

This seems to be a trend, they're obsessed with "themed trinkets" from raids and are just producing absolute trash tier trinkets. I don't know a single player that prefers this design style, not one.

Is blizzard ever going to make good raid trinkets again or is this the new norm?

So they make a trinket that's amazing when played at a high skill level and you complain because it requires a high skill level.

Gotcha.

[Shadowsgrace]

its a channel trinket... like many other cool trinkets before it you mean?

Except 3 of those are not "channeled" in the sense of a Channeled Spell, e.g. what blizzard and Hellfire were, and what tranquility is. Interrupted on Movement, or other spell cast. Those just prevent you from doing anything else, until it's finished. I know it's nit picking, but there is a operational difference. One breaks on movement or spell cast, one prevents any action until it's finished. The "Archive of Faith" and "Glimmering Naaru Sliver" yes they are channeled Trinkets, had to look up the "Glimmering Naaru Sliver" they break on Movement, or other spell casts. Learn something new everyday.

[Playintrafic]

I absolutely HATE on use trinkets.

Gimme random fun procs!

This.

My favourite trinket to this day is Still Deathbringer's will, and the one in MoP (healer trinket) that would randomly turn you all white and see through.

I knew when those trinkets did a thing, now its just oh.. well I got a new stat bauble.

Harlan's loaded dice is nice, it makes me feel like a combat rogue on my demon hunter.

[MrExcelion]

So they make a trinket that's amazing when played at a high skill level and you complain because it requires a high skill level.

Gotcha.

The OP's concerns are legit (though I think it's ok as long as Pa'ku and Codex are strong alternatives, which they're not generally)

Here's proof:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21#boss=2280

Even the very top ranking parses do not use it. Its basically non-existent, because of how you have to do the fight. (jaina is the same way, with baits and the freezing blood/fog of war mechanic)

For Shadow Priest. Pa'ku is fine because they love haste, though you even see a lot of Twitching Tentacles from last tier because Codex and Sliver aren't good raid options.

[FelPlague]

Except 3 of those are not "channeled" in the sense of a Channeled Spell, e.g. what blizzard and Hellfire were, and what tranquility is. Interrupted on Movement, or other spell cast. Those just prevent you from doing anything else, until it's finished. I know it's nit picking, but there is a operational difference. One breaks on movement or spell cast, one prevents any action until it's finished. The "Archive of Faith" and "Glimmering Naaru Sliver" yes they are channeled Trinkets, had to look up the "Glimmering Naaru Sliver" they break on Movement, or other spell casts. Learn something new everyday.

so you rather you have to clickc to break out of them, then being able to move to break out?

[Shelly]

The OP's concerns are legit (though I think it's ok as long as Pa'ku and Codex are strong alternatives, which they're not generally)

Here's proof:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21#boss=2280

Even the very top ranking parses do not use it. Its basically non-existent, because of how you have to do the fight. (jaina is the same way, with baits and the freezing blood/fog of war mechanic)

For Shadow Priest. Pa'ku is fine because they love haste, though you even see a lot of Twitching Tentacles from last tier because Codex and Sliver aren't good raid options.

Except they aren't.

The raid hasn't been out long enough yet for groups to reach more critical mass on the trinket where you can have entire ranged groups using it and making it less of a hindrance for stacking fights.

And not every trinket can or should be BiS for every fight. If I change your search to Rastakhan suddenly almost everyone's using the sliver.

The sliver is seeing ok representation on over half the fights and as more characters get it the representation will also go up.

It's one of the more interesting trinkets in the game and considering how so many people complain about WoW being on training wheels these days you'd think something that requires a bit of thought would be welcome.

[asil]

Considering Sliver is a top tier trinket for most casters and healers your statement is invalid. You just have to be a good player maximizing potential on most fights and on stack fights have leadership that's competent enough to create a second stack group of just people with said trinket.

My statement is completely valid, and I suspect you have little to no idea what you're talking about. Even with 100% uptime the trinket is worse than world quest trinkets, it's worse than world boss trinkets.

There's nothing about that trinket that says "this should have a downside."

I have the trinket (I was forced into using it because I got one from mythic) I know how to play with the trinket, it is not good enough to justify the down side, that's just reality.

The trinket is literally like 6th-7th best for my class, and that's with 100% uptime. So if by "top tier" you mean 6-7th, maybe 8th best assuming perfect uptime? Sure.

But that isn't the definition of "top tier" I use, and I doubt it's one anyone sane uses.

[MrExcelion]

The raid hasn't been out long enough yet for groups to reach more critical mass on the trinket where you can have entire ranged groups using it and making it less of a hindrance for stacking fights.

Hunters won't be using the intellect sliver trinket at the least, can't speak to healers. Jaina is a whole raid stack fight. And yeah, how many weeks is it going to take for to drop for every caster, and how many weeks will be left in the tier at that point. For me at least it'll be well after mythic Jaina is dead (so I get that it can be frustrating when players view this 415 gear as a means to an end of completing progression and it can't be used for that purpose on the hardest 2 fights). Still, like you said it's decently interesting in some regards, just need more alternatives in the raid. Like a 4th trinket option. Antorus had 5 trinket options with 11 bosses. Here we get 3 with 9 bosses. Uldir had 3 with 8 but you might think the G'huun trinket is like the old flavor tentacle trinkets from Yogg and C'thun (for dps anyway). Not sure why they didn't hotfix that one.

And not every trinket can or should be BiS for every fight

I agree with this. I touched upon this in my previous post. My main issue is with Codex and the lack of a 4th option. There's no scenario where Codex is a top tier trinket. The usage statistics speak for themselves on that one. Would be nice to have a use effect on par with the pvp Badge trinkets. Doesn't necessarily have to fully eclipse the PVP option, just equal it

[Revamp Man]

I mean, it doesn't have to be perfect. The sliver is a good trinket if you remove the stacking bullshit. Why is the stacking element even there?

It's not like the trinket is strong enough to need a downside. It's like they're obessed with forcing people to fish titanforges from world quests.

They make a semi-decent caster trinket and then just destroy it by adding an absurdly dumb mechanic that makes it hard/impossible to use on nearly every fight in the instance.

1
3
4 after you get to the final room
5 kinda
6 because stacking is bad a majority of the time
7 because I mean stacking ain't really needed

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

Trinkets have sucked ever since ICD was introduced. The number of good/interesting melee trinkets since wow was launched can be counted on one hand

[Sting]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/tD39zDQ.png[IMG]
I mean it is middle of the pack, not horrible. cause remember these run off "if everything is equal ilvl"

so yes while middle of the pack, the top ones are much more rare to get so...

Being that bad for dps and on top of that having it be channeled just makes it useless. Pick a good m+ week where you can run the dungeons with 3 casters and you should have very little issue getting a 400+ branch / conch / fuse

[Zyky]

My statement is completely valid, and I suspect you have little to no idea what you're talking about. Even with 100% uptime the trinket is worse than world quest trinkets, it's worse than world boss trinkets.

There's nothing about that trinket that says "this should have a downside."

I have the trinket (I was forced into using it because I got one from mythic) I know how to play with the trinket, it is not good enough to justify the down side, that's just reality.

The trinket is literally like 6th-7th best for my class, and that's with 100% uptime. So if by "top tier" you mean 6-7th, maybe 8th best assuming perfect uptime? Sure.

But that isn't the definition of "top tier" I use, and I doubt it's one anyone sane uses.

You're obviously deluded or bad. Might want to take another look because it's a BiS trinket when you play well with ANY caster/healer.

#1: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#mage_frost
#1: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#druid_balance
#1: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#priest_shadow
#1: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#shaman_elemental
#4: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#warlock_destruction
#6: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#mage_fire
#6: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#warlock_demonology
#7: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#warlock_affliction
#9(only because of how Burst reliant Arcane is): https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#mage_arcane

and if you take out near impossible trinkets to obtain, like high IL World Boss or high IL WQ drops they all fall into top 1-4 for every spec. This is called a top tier trinket, just because you're a bad player doesn't mean that it's a bad trinket. To further this fact, if you look at rankings on logs, they show that the majority of the spec to spec base is running this trinket at a high end level, so the obvious answer is that you're just a bad player.

[MrExcelion]

Yeah I don't agree with that second post OP made. Just saw it now since it was quoted. I empathized with his frustration about the stacking strats (especially for late mythic bosses), but that's about it. It's totally fine that's not BiS for several fights. Just wish we had similarly powered alternatives in the raid. It's a wonder that the PVP on use ones haven't been brought down yet, or we get something from raid on that level. It's a vestige of old trinket design that largely doesn't exist in this xpac. You look at Balefire and at least it has a small drawback to it. Ignition Mage's Fuse small drawback is it ramps up very slowly over 20 seconds. (and both those are non-raid options, give us something like that from the raid) PVP trinket just works.

[asil]

You're obviously deluded or bad. Might want to take another look because it's a BiS trinket when you play well with ANY caster/healer.

#1: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#mage_frost
#1: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#druid_balance
#1: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#priest_shadow
#1: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#shaman_elemental
#4: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#warlock_destruction
#6: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#mage_fire
#6: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#warlock_demonology
#7: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#warlock_affliction
#9(only because of how Burst reliant Arcane is): https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#mage_arcane

and if you take out near impossible trinkets to obtain, like high IL World Boss or high IL WQ drops they all fall into top 1-4 for every spec. This is called a top tier trinket, just because you're a bad player doesn't mean that it's a bad trinket. To further this fact, if you look at rankings on logs, they show that the majority of the spec to spec base is running this trinket at a high end level, so the obvious answer is that you're just a bad player.

It's BIS for some specs assuming 100% uptime, which will not happen on most fights for most people.

Also, I promise I'm better than you are at this game. The 4 rank 1 titles tell me that. You have no clue what you are talking about.

The trinket being best (assuming 100% uptime) for 4 specs is not evidence of "top tier trinket." Maybe in whatever fantasy world you live in, not in the real world

I suggest you go back to posting about wow lore and leave topics like this alone.This isn't even getting into the fact the trinket is not fun to play with, it's not interesting.

I don't feel like dodging retards trying to screw my trinket during encounters.

[Zyky]

It's BIS for some specs assuming 100% uptime, which will not happen on most fights for most people.

Also, I promise I'm better than you are at this game. The 4 rank 1 titles tell me that. You have no clue what you are talking about.

The trinket being best (assuming 100% uptime) for 4 specs is not evidence of "top tier trinket." Maybe in whatever fantasy world you live in, not in the real world

I suggest you go back to posting about wow lore and leave topics like this alone.This isn't even getting into the fact the trinket is not fun to play with, it's not interesting.

I don't feel like dodging retards trying to screw my trinket during encounters.

I mean you keep claiming that you're good with zero proof, yet the logs prove that this trinket is top tier regardless of your claims. Almost every top parse for almost every caster is using this trinket, that's a fact that you can very easily look up on warcraftlogs, which is "real world" not fantasy. So again, I guarantee you're just a trash player. I think you must be the person living in a fantasy world.

- - - Updated - - -

its a channel trinket... like many other cool trinkets before it you mean?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but Grong is worthless, Smoldering Titanguard was only used to cheese Argus and wasn't fun, Archive of Faith was only useful in M+ and even then there were significantly better trinkets, and Glimmering Naaru Sliver was never used either so I'm not sure how you view these as "fun".