Y'Shaarj Return?

[Kralljin]

"They do not live, they do not die. They are outside the cycle."

3 Old Gods are dead, none of them have given a hint that "Old Gods do not die", the whispers are simply no indication, Y'shaarj and various other Old God related things such as Zakajz have shown that malicious influence goes hand in hand with their remains, no actual consciousness in their side required.

Yogg outright states that his body is now a corpse.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

3 Old Gods are dead, none of them have given a hint that "Old Gods do not die", the whispers are simply no indication, Y'shaarj and various other Old God related things such as Zakajz have shown that malicious influence goes hand in hand with their remains, no actual consciousness in their side required.

Yogg outright states that his body is now a corpse.

Oddly enough the idea of a world soul was hinted by him as well(Although I figured it was him saying the world is young or something, no it's a world soul now). Back to Yogg, I'd argue even an Old God Corpse is still dangerous, even C'thun's body that's been dead since Vanilla or what not.

[wanax]

I wouldn't be surprised if all the Old God's made a re-appernce in some weakened form

This is kinda what I was thinking. I mean Old God blood seems to be fairly sentient. Who’s to say that as long as one drop escapes the prison with say Twilight cultist that it couldn’t be nourished to grow or even given a host body to allow it to regain strength. Kinda like the symbiotes in Marvel.

[Beloren]

Y'shaarj is by all accounts dead.

1.Aman'thul killed him.
2.Garrosh soaked up the rest of Y'shaarj's blood and thus killed the heart, the last known remains of Y'shaarj.

At this point, i wouldn't read too much into every Old god related babble, some of that is most likely just to be gibberish or a red herring.

That aside, Y'shaarj is referred to as the "seven headed one", not the "seven eyed one".
Point in fact, the only official artwork of Y'shaarj shows him with at least nine eyes.

Except that's what they want us to think..then BOOM - dead.

[Zandalariprelate]

3 Old Gods are dead, none of them have given a hint that "Old Gods do not die", the whispers are simply no indication, Y'shaarj and various other Old God related things such as Zakajz have shown that malicious influence goes hand in hand with their remains, no actual consciousness in their side required.

Yogg outright states that his body is now a corpse.

I think Alex said in the blizzcon the old gods are in a weird spot but available to return if they can think a storyline about that, which means they will return to be raid fodder or filler villains, if they pulled that crap of perfect body of Derek, then why not with the minor shoggoths?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think Alex said in the blizzcon the old gods are in a weird spot but available to return if they can think a storyline about that, which means they will return to be raid fodder or filler villains, if they pulled that crap of perfect body of Derek, then why not with the minor shoggoths?

Derek Proudmoore is a bit small in comparison to Old Gods literally and in terms of lore.

[Kralljin]

Back to Yogg, I'd argue even an Old God Corpse is still dangerous

And i wouldn't disagree, however there's a difference between his corpse corrupting stuff and shit and Yogg still being not dead.

I think Alex said in the blizzcon the old gods are in a weird spot but available to return if they can think a storyline about that, which means they will return to be raid fodder or filler villains, if they pulled that crap of perfect body of Derek, then why not with the minor shoggoths?

It's an option that someone might use Azerite (or some other powerful shit) to revive C'thun / Yogg, i wouldn't doubt that.
But this "Old Gods aren't actually dead" is currently more of a headcanon than actual supported by current lore, no matter what gibberish old god servants sprout.

[Zandalariprelate]

Derek Proudmoore is a bit small in comparison to Old Gods literally and in terms of lore.

He was incinerated to dust in the old book and now he is fine and coming soon a new model since Calia needs company. Also we have currently Azerite something powerful enough to even resurrect Ragnaros with just a fragment.

[Razzako]

3 Old Gods are dead, none of them have given a hint that "Old Gods do not die", the whispers are simply no indication, Y'shaarj and various other Old God related things such as Zakajz have shown that malicious influence goes hand in hand with their remains, no actual consciousness in their side required.

Yogg outright states that his body is now a corpse.

Can you point me to where the lore says they are officially dead? Or are you referring as them being physically dead?

[thesmall001]

Everybody knows that when you remove a cancer from the host that the cancer never, ever comes back.

[Kralljin]

Can you point me to where the lore says they are officially dead? Or are you referring as them being physically dead?

If i guess this correctly, you want to assume that Old Gods basically "live on" without body, like some spirit survives or lives on?
Maybe we should ask ourselves whether that has actually any ground to stand on in the first place.

Y'shaarj:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Last_Gasp_of_Y%27Shaarj

Basically: The last remains of Y'shaarj are a dark smear on the Floor and anything related to Y'shaarj (like the Sha) will also fade to exist.

C'thun:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/C%27Thun%27s_Legacy

A force of evil, older than the world itself, has been destroyed.
As you look at the remnants of the colossal abomination your heart nearly freezes. Even in death you can feel the legacy of C'Thun's evil around you.

Furthermore, Cho'gall tried to ressurect C'thun, you gotta be dead to get ressurected.

Yogg:
Yogg himself calls his own body a corpse, so yeah, he's dead.
The fact that he also states said corpse "will choke this land for all eternity" gives you a hint that Northrend might face a similiar fate as Pandaria on the long run.


Just to put that out from Afrasiabi from a Blizzcon 2018 interview (source is in russian on WoWpedia, so i can't check it):

I would say that we should consider them dead. But! As with all things in World of Warcraft and in general in the Warcraft universe, death is not always final. Therefore, if there is the coming of the Old Gods, or some precursor of the Old Gods appear from the eternal darkness, from the Void, for example, if there is any way or opportunity to return them, I imagine that this may well happen.

Basically, for now, they're dead and remain that way unless something changes.

[Redroniksre]

Can you point me to where the lore says they are officially dead? Or are you referring as them being physically dead?

They are very dead in a physical manner, but like the very ambiguous quote says, that may not mean much to them. There was even a Q&A awhile back for Cataclysm where they said that it was the deaths of Yogg/C'thun that caused the Cataclysm.

[Razzako]

If i guess this correctly, you want to assume that Old Gods basically "live on" without body, like some spirit survives or lives on?
Maybe we should ask ourselves whether that has actually any ground to stand on in the first place.

Y'shaarj:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Last_Gasp_of_Y%27Shaarj

Basically: The last remains of Y'shaarj are a dark smear on the Floor and anything related to Y'shaarj (like the Sha) will also fade to exist.

C'thun:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/C%27Thun%27s_Legacy



Furthermore, Cho'gall tried to ressurect C'thun, you gotta be dead to get ressurected.

Yogg:
Yogg himself calls his own body a corpse, so yeah, he's dead.
The fact that he also states said corpse "will choke this land for all eternity" gives you a hint that Northrend might face a similiar fate as Pandaria on the long run.


Just to put that out from Afrasiabi from a Blizzcon 2018 interview (source is in russian on WoWpedia, so i can't check it):



Basically, for now, they're dead and remain that way unless something changes.

Thank you, I was curious so that's why I asked. The one thing I don't understand is why Aman'thul killing Y'shaarj resulting in Azeroth suffering so much in comparison to C'thun and Yogg-Saron. Is this because they were weakened by the time we killed them?

- - - Updated - - -

They are very dead in a physical manner, but like the very ambiguous quote says, that may not mean much to them. There was even a Q&A awhile back for Cataclysm where they said that it was the deaths of Yogg/C'thun that caused the Cataclysm.

I guess they meant that their deaths indirectly caused the Cataclysm? I thought the reason for that was Deathwing.

Also, are they completely dead dead as Kralljin is saying or are their deaths similar to the demons' where they go to the twisting nether? I'm guessing it's possible for them to go to the Void.

[Kralljin]

Thank you, I was curious so that's why I asked. The one thing I don't understand is why Aman'thul killing Y'shaarj resulting in Azeroth suffering so much in comparison to C'thun and Yogg-Saron. Is this because they were weakened by the time we killed them?

It seems that the only way to kill Old Gods known to the Titans was to rip the out, which obviously does a lot more damage to Azeroth than us beating the Old Gods to death.

Leaving that aside, my personal theory is that the Titans never found a way to properly dispose of the Old Gods (Where G'huun might come into play).

A full removal was out of the question (as Y'shaarj has shown), putting them done in a similiar way as we did causes less short term damage, but might have dire consequences down the line, as Y'shaarj has shown in Pandaria.

So, they decided to research the Old Gods, which then sooner or later fell apart due various reasons on Azeroth and obviously the Titans own death.

That is however just my take on things, personally i think Blizzard has struggled to properly connect the "Titans could kill Old Gods but didn't" and "The players killed Old Gods" narrative.

[Oneirophobia]

3 Old Gods are dead, none of them have given a hint that "Old Gods do not die", the whispers are simply no indication, Y'shaarj and various other Old God related things such as Zakajz have shown that malicious influence goes hand in hand with their remains, no actual consciousness in their side required.

Yogg outright states that his body is now a corpse.

3 Old Gods are dead as far as our understanding of how that even works with them. Y'shaarj was dead until his heart started beating again, assuming Y'shaarj was ever alive in the first place. I think "pacified until further notice" is probably a safer notion than "they're dead dead dead."

That is however just my take on things, personally i think Blizzard has struggled to properly connect the "Titans could kill Old Gods but didn't" and "The players killed Old Gods" narrative.

So again, "They do not live, they do not die. They are outside the cycle" is fair to speculate about. Especially since this stuff is based on Lovecraft.

[Razzako]

It seems that the only way to kill Old Gods known to the Titans was to rip the out, which obviously does a lot more damage to Azeroth than us beating the Old Gods to death.

Leaving that aside, my personal theory is that the Titans never found a way to properly dispose of the Old Gods (Where G'huun might come into play).

A full removal was out of the question (as Y'shaarj has shown), putting them done in a similiar way as we did causes less short term damage, but might have dire consequences down the line, as Y'shaarj has shown in Pandaria.

So, they decided to research the Old Gods, which then sooner or later fell apart due various reasons on Azeroth and obviously the Titans own death.

That is however just my take on things, personally i think Blizzard has struggled to properly connect the "Titans could kill Old Gods but didn't" and "The players killed Old Gods" narrative.

I see. Seems to be like a very foggy area when it comes to the Old Gods dying.

In any case it seems that's where we're headed next expansion. The Burning Legion and the Old Gods have always been the two big bads so I'm guessing the thematic of the next expansion will be very appealing, hopefully they don't mess it up in terms of gameplay but I digress.

[shadowmatrix]

Seven eyed goat sounds more like C'Thun.

C'Thun - eyes
Yogg Saron - mouths
N'Zoth - legs
Y'Sharj - arms
Xalatath - brain
Ghuun - a new body

By their powers combined a Void Lord is born.

[Redroniksre]

I guess they meant that their deaths indirectly caused the Cataclysm? I thought the reason for that was Deathwing.

Also, are they completely dead dead as Kralljin is saying or are their deaths similar to the demons' where they go to the twisting nether? I'm guessing it's possible for them to go to the Void.

Deathwing was part of it yeah, but old lore was that Azeroth would be destroyed were they removed (kinda still true). I believe it was Metzen and Alex that stated that their deaths were essentially the lesser effect of "killing" them. And it is said they are outside the cycle, and we know their corpses still corrupt, so really the only question is how and if they can revive themselves over time or with a catalyst.

[MatadorMedia]

Xal'atath the blade was crafted from the claw of Y'shaarj. She is literally an embodiment of Y'shaarj. So now that she's free, she essentially takes his place; but obviously she is much less powerful than a full Old God.

[Houle]

Xal'atath the blade was crafted from the claw of Y'shaarj. She is literally an embodiment of Y'shaarj. So now that she's free, she essentially takes his place; but obviously she is much less powerful than a full Old God.

That was just one of the many theories the game added to make it more mysterious. In fact, every real indication so far points to Xal being an weak old god that was consumed by the others shortly after the landed. Nothing every indicated that the "claw of Y'shaarj" theory is true.