Sylvanas's plan

[Gangreflamme]

I just thought of a possible genius play by Sylvanas and I need to know if that would actually make some kind of sense. Now that you've seen the Proudmoore Reunion cinematic, I wanna say that I do believe it's a good thing that Baine got arrested, he's gonna be protected in an horde hub from any alliance leader who would wanna come and kill the him, believing that he knew Derek would be under Sylvanas's control (cause he obviously is) and just delivered the pawn. Maybe it's somewhat to "force protect" his commander that Sylvanas did this, to protect him and just to draw the alliance to attack the horde and strike back so that she can use the power of Xalatath against them to do a complete butchery and raise them afterwards .

But again, it's just a theory, could that actually be it though ?

[Soon-TM]

I just thought of a possible genius play by Sylvanas and I need to know if that would actually make some kind of sense. Now that you've seen the Proudmoore Reunion cinematic, I wanna say that I do believe it's a good thing that Baine got arrested, he's gonna be protected in an horde hub from any alliance leader who would wanna come and kill the him, believing that he knew Derek would be under Sylvanas's control (cause he obviously is) and just delivered the pawn. Maybe it's somewhat to "force protect" his commander that Sylvanas did this, to protect him and just to draw the alliance to attack the horde and strike back so that she can use the power of Xalatath against them to do a complete butchery and raise them afterwards .

But again, it's just a theory, could that actually be it though ?

Sylvanas is an idiot. Every single time she has tried some genius strategy, she's always been fooled. It happened to her during the Scourge attack on Quel'thalas, happened later in WotLK with Varimathras first (she got almost killed during the coup) and later with Arthas (she had to gtfo before he obliterated her). Later in Cata, she could have never taken Gilneas hadn't she resorted to WMDs. In Legion she was dumb enough as to try to enslave the val'kyr queen in the face of one of her deadliest enemies - and she got her ass spanked and her pretty lamp torn to pieces.

Finally, in BfA, she tries some sort of blitzkrieg against NEs, which eventually amounts to nothing more than a pyrrhic victory. And she only got out of the siege of Lordaeron alive because the boiking and his favourite dog were dumb enough as to not provide their troops with any anti-blight protection - knowing that they were against someone who has a real knack for plaguing and poisoning stuff. Alliance leadership behaved so fucking stupid that they should have been blighted then and there, but don't worry Manduin bois - we have Jaina Deus Ex Machina Proudmoore to save our asses.

In short, Sylvanas and her fanbois love to picture her as a mixture of Machiavelli and Napoleon with tits - but that's far from being true. Which brings me to the point: no, she simply doesn't have the brains to concoct such a plan.

[HitRefresh]

And she only got out of the siege of Lordaeron alive because the boiking and his favourite dog were dumb enough as to not provide their troops with any anti-blight protection - knowing that they were against someone who has a real knack for plaguing and poisoning stuff. Alliance leadership behaved so fucking stupid that they should have been blighted then and there, but don't worry Manduin bois - we have Jaina Deus Ex Machina Proudmoore to save our asses.

That whole part was just terribly written. It was like half of the races didn't even show up until mid-fight. This was planned. Why the hell weren't they all already gathered? It's like the whole time Anduin's saying "oh thank God you showed up too". And Jaina flying in on a fucking ship is just stupid. What's wrong with teleportation? It would have been cooler for her to make an entrance through a teleport than on a useless ship. They didn't have to fly away at the end either, again, they could have just teleported. Or just get rid of any last second interventions period and write it better. I almost hate it more than space ships. The entire mood of that battle was waaaaay different than the cinematic. Just like the Legion intro.

[Schattenlied]

Derek says in the scenario "I can't go home... can I?" to Jaina, and she confirms, then she says she knows others who may be able to help him (presumably Calia and Alonsus Faol) and says she will take him to them.

So, even if he is under her influence right now, this already isnt working out as Sylvanas planned, Derek is going to be getting help long before he ever goes home to be the weapon Sylvanas wanted to turn him into, which means if he was turned it will likely be undone by Calia and Alonsus.

[wargone]

That whole part was just terribly written. It was like half of the races didn't even show up until mid-fight. This was planned. Why the hell weren't they all already gathered? It's like the whole time Anduin's saying "oh thank God you showed up too". And Jaina flying in on a fucking ship is just stupid. What's wrong with teleportation? It would have been cooler for her to make an entrance through a teleport than on a useless ship. They didn't have to fly away at the end either, again, they could have just teleported. Or just get rid of any last second interventions period and write it better. I almost hate it more than space ships. The entire mood of that battle was waaaaay different than the cinematic. Just like the Legion intro.

yep. Terrible writing.
but appently the alliance have no military Strategist.. It was such a bad siege from the start.
why even Drive their Siege engines so close... Why not wait til more wall is destroyed.. Why not wait for the rest of the army(as you point out).
HOW could the alliance be suprised by Plague weapons 2-3 times(At the gate, in the middle of inside, and at the end if we count the big selfdesuction)
Why does the alliance send in so many foot soldiers. WHy not rely on Gnome Troops and Mechanics unites. stuff that can ignore Blight.
Where is in the vindicar.. Where is the skybreakers. Where is the Arial unites of the alliance.

the only reason sylvanas seems smart is because she have the POWER OF FANDOM!!! and blizzard is milking her for all the fandom she can. her real power is that appently the alliance is morons who dont know simple battle strategy.

[Prawnapple]

Sylvanas's plan? You mean, Gods plan? My Queen. My Lordship.

[HCLM]

Sylvanas is an idiot. Every single time she has tried some genius strategy, she's always been fooled. It happened to her during the Scourge attack on Quel'thalas, happened later in WotLK with Varimathras first (she got almost killed during the coup) and later with Arthas (she had to gtfo before he obliterated her). Later in Cata, she could have never taken Gilneas hadn't she resorted to WMDs. In Legion she was dumb enough as to try to enslave the val'kyr queen in the face of one of her deadliest enemies - and she got her ass spanked and her pretty lamp torn to pieces.

Finally, in BfA, she tries some sort of blitzkrieg against NEs, which eventually amounts to nothing more than a pyrrhic victory. And she only got out of the siege of Lordaeron alive because the boiking and his favourite dog were dumb enough as to not provide their troops with any anti-blight protection - knowing that they were against someone who has a real knack for plaguing and poisoning stuff. Alliance leadership behaved so fucking stupid that they should have been blighted then and there, but don't worry Manduin bois - we have Jaina Deus Ex Machina Proudmoore to save our asses.

In short, Sylvanas and her fanbois love to picture her as a mixture of Machiavelli and Napoleon with tits - but that's far from being true. Which brings me to the point: no, she simply doesn't have the brains to concoct such a plan.

You know that Sylv is a master strategist in lore right? And she would already won the war few times if not the plot shield that ally has with the OP characters.

[kamuimac]

Derek says in the scenario "I can't go home... can I?" to Jaina, and she confirms, then she says she knows others who may be able to help him (presumably Calia and Alonsus Faol) and says she will take him to them.

So, even if he is under her influence right now, this already isnt working out as Sylvanas planned, Derek is going to be getting help long before he ever goes home to be the weapon Sylvanas wanted to turn him into, which means if he was turned it will likely be undone by Calia and Alonsus.

the irony, if this help will turn out to be changing Derek into lightforged only so he is used in next expansion against Jaina when Light invades azeroth

[OpieOP]

You know that Sylv is a master strategist in lore right? And she would already won the war few times if not the plot shield that ally has with the OP characters.

Ironic. because of the same stuff Sylvanas escaped Death ... three times?... I stopped counting after her suicide in the aftermath of WotLK. So yeah if there wasn't any plot armor, sylvanas would've bitten the dust a long long time ago.

[Darliane Sunblood]

We can all hope she has a plan

[Mehrunes]

Ironic. because of the same stuff Sylvanas escaped Death ... three times?... I stopped counting after her suicide in the aftermath of WotLK. So yeah if there wasn't any plot armor, sylvanas would've bitten the dust a long long time ago.

Being resurrected in a setting with long-established necromancy isn't plot armor. Don't use terms you don't understand.

Sylvanas is an idiot. Every single time she has tried some genius strategy, she's always been fooled. It happened to her during the Scourge attack on Quel'thalas, happened later in WotLK with Varimathras first (she got almost killed during the coup) and later with Arthas (she had to gtfo before he obliterated her). Later in Cata, she could have never taken Gilneas hadn't she resorted to WMDs. In Legion she was dumb enough as to try to enslave the val'kyr queen in the face of one of her deadliest enemies - and she got her ass spanked and her pretty lamp torn to pieces.

What? Her getting defeated by Arthas isn't a question of her being fooled. It's a question of Arthas' force overpowering the High Elven ones (and only adding the fallen High Elves to his own forces). Same with Halls of Reflection. On top of that, the whole point of ICC 5 men was gathering intel. Which Sylvanas did. As for Varimathras, his betrayal isn't a result of any strategy she used in WotLK either. And even then, everyone can get betrayed.

Finally, in BfA, she tries some sort of blitzkrieg against NEs, which eventually amounts to nothing more than a pyrrhic victory. And she only got out of the siege of Lordaeron alive because the boiking and his favourite dog were dumb enough as to not provide their troops with any anti-blight protection - knowing that they were against someone who has a real knack for plaguing and poisoning stuff. Alliance leadership behaved so fucking stupid that they should have been blighted then and there, but don't worry Manduin bois - we have Jaina Deus Ex Machina Proudmoore to save our asses.

The Horde steamrolled the Night Elves in War of Thorns. And Sylvanas still achieved her objective as far as she was concerned. It's just instead of dead Malfurion to break the Alliance's spirit she had a torched Teldrassil to break the Alliance's spirit. And even the issue of Malfurion surviving is not a fault in the strategy but a fault in Saurfang.

And what anti-Blight protection? Not even the Forsaken have that and they made it. They only have gas masks to protect themselves from the vapor, not the Blight itself. The stronger strains of Blight melt through stone, have fun equipping soldiers against that. Also, as per the balance of naval power as explained in A Good War by Saurfang, the very fact that the Alliance even managed to land in Lordaeron is already infeasible. They should have been all sunk and feeding the fish right now. And you yourself just mentioned how they only managed to breach Lordaeron's wall or even survive at all thanks to a deus ex machina, so good job shooting your argument in the foot.

[Soon-TM]

Being resurrected in a setting with long-established necromancy isn't plot armor. Don't use terms you don't understand.




What? Her getting defeated by Arthas isn't a question of her being fooled. It's a question of Arthas' force overpowering the High Elven ones (and only adding the fallen High Elves to his own forces). Same with Halls of Reflection. On top of that, the whole point of ICC 5 men was gathering intel. Which Sylvanas did. As for Varimathras, his betrayal isn't a result of any strategy she used in WotLK either. And even then, everyone can get betrayed.




The Horde steamrolled the Night Elves in War of Thorns. And Sylvanas still achieved her objective as far as she was concerned. It's just instead of dead Malfurion to break the Alliance's spirit she had a torched Teldrassil to break the Alliance's spirit. And even the issue of Malfurion surviving is not a fault in the strategy but a fault in Saurfang.

And what anti-Blight protection? Not even the Forsaken have that and they made it. They only have gas masks to protect themselves from the vapor, not the Blight itself. The stronger strains of Blight melt through stone, have fun equipping soldiers against that. Also, as per the balance of naval power as explained in A Good War by Saurfang, the very fact that the Alliance even managed to land in Lordaeron is already infeasible. They should have been all sunk and feeding the fish right now. And you yourself just mentioned how they only managed to breach Lordaeron's wall or even survive at all thanks to a deus ex machina, so good job shooting your argument in the foot.

Bla bla bla. All it matters is that the ONLY successful Sylvanas campaign is when she breaks free from the Scourge/dreadlords and creates the Forsaken. In all her other major military campaigns (i.e. when she's actually leading instead of brooding in a dark corner) she's either been defeated or has obtained a pyrrhic victory. Not what I'd call a master strategist, that is for certain.

And you defending the abomination of writing that is the siege of Lordaeron makes me think that you either have awful taste or are downright trolling. So bye bye!

[Verdugo]

Bla bla bla. All it matters is that the ONLY successful Sylvanas campaign is when she breaks free from the Scourge/dreadlords and creates the Forsaken. In all her other major military campaigns (i.e. when she's actually leading instead of brooding in a dark corner) she's either been defeated or has obtained a pyrrhic victory. Not what I'd call a master strategist, that is for certain.

And you defending the abomination of writing that is the siege of Lordaeron makes me think that you either have awful taste or are downright trolling. So bye bye!

He wasnt defending the siege at all, proving that you didnt read shit.

[Melsiren]

I'm starting to think the real assassination target is Calia and never was a Proudmoore.

Seriously I can even see it now, he meets Calia, stabs her 5 times in the gut, and then mutters. "The Banshee Queen sends her regards."

[Soon-TM]

He wasnt defending the siege at all, proving that you didnt read shit.

He was stating that

And what anti-Blight protection? Not even the Forsaken have that and they made it. They only have gas masks to protect themselves from the vapor, not the Blight itself. The stronger strains of Blight melt through stone, have fun equipping soldiers against that. Also, as per the balance of naval power as explained in A Good War by Saurfang, the very fact that the Alliance even managed to land in Lordaeron is already infeasible. They should have been all sunk and feeding the fish right now. And you yourself just mentioned how they only managed to breach Lordaeron's wall or even survive at all thanks to a deus ex machina, so good job shooting your argument in the foot.

I mean, did he actually PLAY the freaking scenario? Blight outright kills you as a Horde character if you dont equip the provided mask. Masks that evidently the Alliance didn't have, even if they knew fully well how fond is Sylvanas of poisons and stuff. Alliance should have never reached Lordaeron, true, but since they did, Sylvanas should have never made it out of there alive. Shit writing for both factions.

Maybe it's you who didn't read shit.

[HCLM]

He was stating that



I mean, did he actually PLAY the freaking scenario? Blight outright kills you as a Horde character if you dont equip the provided mask. Masks that evidently the Alliance didn't have, even if they knew fully well how fond is Sylvanas of poisons and stuff. Alliance should have never reached Lordaeron, true, but since they did, Sylvanas should have never made it out of there alive. Shit writing for both factions.

Maybe it's you who didn't read shit.

Reread what he said. Masks are protecting people from VAPOR not from the blight itself.

Also if you think that it is so easy to make gas masks protecting you from certain gas for the entire army you're just ignorant. Sylv valued lordaeron and noone expected her to blight it.

[Soon-TM]

Reread what he said. Masks are protecting people from VAPOR not from the blight itself.

Also if you think that it is so easy to make gas masks protecting you from certain gas for the entire army you're just ignorant. Sylv valued lordaeron and noone expected her to blight it.

It isn't easy, but it should be done, unless you want your entire army to be decimated with poison. Maybe it's you who's being ignorant. And besieging the capital of a known blight fan without expecting her using it... are you serious m8?

[Zandalariprelate]

Not even Blizzard has a plan, doubt the characters will have any plan outside of just doing random things at random times

[Florena]

Maybe not gas masks but the alliance should have had SOME SORT OF PLAN to deal with it. The fact they didn't makes everyone, especially Genn who dealt with the Forsaken in Gilneas and Stormheim, look dumb.

Sylvanas really isn't particularly clever, it's just that she has less scruples than other characters. She's not a genius strategist she just has less qualms about making sacrifices or using WMDs than a lot of other faction leaders. Many of her victories were just the result of blight or val'kyr just not having any sort of counter in the story.

This is the same Sylvanas who let a chance to kill Arthas slip through her fingers because she wanted to make him suffer and didn't just kill him, the same Sylvanas who let Godfrey shoot her in the back of the head, the same Sylvanas who stared dumbfounded while Genn, wounded and poisoned in human form, limped away instead of finishing him off. The same Sylvanas who didn't take 5 seconds to make sure Saurfang killed Malfurion when his death was VITAL to her plan.

[Maljinwo]

Even if Derek is a pawn of Sylvanas as so many believe... What will he accomplish?
There's no way he can kill Jaina. And even if he did...
What? Sylvanas honestly thinks that by murdering Jaina or Katherine the Kul Tirans or the Alliance will back off?

Remember how the Night Elves backed off after Teldrassil?
Yeah, no.

Sylvanas' tactics are always presented as shrewd and cunning only to backfire spectacularly