Alterac Valley in Classic Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Foru

[Softbottom]

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
This is a subject that has been asked about several times recently, and we want to clarify some of the details surrounding it. Like many aspects of the game, Alterac Valley was tuned and adjusted in different ways from patch to patch in 2005-2006.

First and foremost, we’re planning to use the 1.12 version of Alterac Valley. For many parts of the game like this, we’re picking an original WoW patch that gives us the most clarity for WoW: Classic, and 1.12 is that patch.

In Alterac Valley, that puts us before the introduction of reinforcements. It puts us before the removal of all of the Commanders and Lieutenants. The only win conditions are the killing of Drek’thar in Frostwolf Keep or Vanndar Stormpike in Dun Baldar.

It gives us several early improvements to the BG that we’re glad to have in place. Early on in AV, there were too many NPCs and they were too hard to kill. By 1.12, many had been removed and NPC health was brought down to a reasonable level. Turning in armor scraps is an encouraged, supportive activity by this point. Many capture points (mostly graveyards) had been moved away from their initial placements to gain better balance across the map. Korak the Bloodrager was removed, and killing opposing players no longer drops items like Dwarf Spines, Orc Teeth, or Human Bone Chips. Gross.

In our content plan update, we mentioned that we’re still working out exactly how and when PvP elements of Classic will roll out. We’ll update you on that here very soon.

AV without Korrak is not classic AV

[Saksy2]

Friendly reminder that even on private servers with the oldest AV version the players ended up rushing the bosses for maximum rep or badges/hour.
The only way to get your epic "week long AV" back would be to overtune AV past the point it ever was in Vanilla or time travel back to 2005.

Korrak or not, 1.5 or 1.12, it doesn't matter.

[Teph]

So without Korak we won't get the quest? It had very strong rewards, especially for hunters. Or did they move the questrewards when removing Korak? Don't really remember.

[anon5123]

People who actually played back during original AV complained that there was too much PvE in their PvP, and thus Blizzard nerfed/reduced the number of NPCs.

Nobody wants to sit through an 8-hour battleground, especially not in today's community when lots of people only do AV for rep/honor, simply because it is the "pve battleground" and there's not much actual PvP going on in it. WSG/AB are far more popular.

- - - Updated - - -

So without Korak we won't get the quest? It had very strong rewards, especially for hunters. Or did they move the questrewards when removing Korak? Don't really remember.

In patch 1.8 that quest was changed from "kill Korrak" to "win an AV game".

[Healasouhait]

In my opinion it's the best version of Alterac.

We avoid, both this reinforcement crap and the 24h alterac while still having the opportunity for the 2-3h alterac with massive killings (still have some screenshots of those) which were great.

Too bad however for the removal of dwarf spines, orc teeth etc...they were great to increase reps.

[Armourboy]

It's what I figured would happen because it's the easiest for them to do and it still Classic because it was that way in Vanilla. I had hoped to see the old original version as I never got to, but I didn't really expect they would use it.

[kichigaijin]

Friendly reminder that even on private servers with the oldest AV version the players ended up rushing the bosses for maximum rep or badges/hour.
The only way to get your epic "week long AV" back would be to overtune AV past the point it ever was in Vanilla or time travel back to 2005.

Korrak or not, 1.5 or 1.12, it doesn't matter.

I've never played on a private server, but from what I understand, they didn't quite use exact game data from vanilla wow. Could it be possible that the private server npc's in their version of AV were not tuned the same as they were on vanilla wow, which enabled the private server zerg-fests?

[Kersey]

What patch did everyone get forced into the same raid?

[lottobot]

Honestly, should be a good thing. Encouraging the turning in of items is good and I mean... it's the same win condition. Now it will just be somewhat faster. Even returning hardcore players probably don't want to spend literally all day in AV, and out doing other things

[Mightytasty]

Maybe a year after release, Blizzard can start temporary Community events and bring back Korrak?

[Morbownz]

It's not my preferred version, but it's probably the smart move, undergeared players vs strong NPC's (especially at choke points) can be infuriating. I'm guessing the mine fields will be gone too then? I was hoping to see newcomers running straight through them and blowing up the 20 players around them.

[Orby]

It's not my preferred version, but it's probably the smart move, undergeared players vs strong NPC's (especially at choke points) can be infuriating. I'm guessing the mine fields will be gone too then? I was hoping to see newcomers running straight through them and blowing up the 20 players around them.

I am actually unfamiliar with minefields in AV when was that a thing? And how long for?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Ya, as others have said, on Nost with the minefields etc all there, still operated exactly like it does on live, only frankly faster than it does now after the 8.0 changes.

There are specific points you can navigate through to avoid everything, and if you don't, people just leave immediately.

The battle will still be going, but it might as well not finish, because no serious player cares to be in there after that.

I think the reaction to stuff like this is shaping up to show Classic's community as very casual and frankly driven by nostalgia rather than some one interested in making a replayable product.

That being said, I had no idea there were ever extra areas in AV. Now that I know that, I would have loved to see it, but I know this version WAS in Classic, and is considerably better for the game - considering people already were trying to game it on private servers for years.

If they DID go back to the slow clunky version, they would have to remake the entirety of it, so people couldn't use the OP private server strats to just finish it in 10 minutes or abandon it immediately on AV weekends.

[Fascinate]

Outstanding news for me, i started wow in 2006 and 1.12 version is the one i remember the most

I was also there for the really long ones (one time i went to bed and queued into the same av 14 hours later) and trust me, 1.12 is better.

[Khaza-R]

I am actually unfamiliar with minefields in AV when was that a thing? And how long for?

Briefly. Alterac Valley used to be wider. And contained a lot more NPCs on the sides before they edited the map in 1.8. There also used to be a quest involving these areas that would give you a buff that allowed you to see all players on the map

[oplawlz]

Friendly reminder that even on private servers with the oldest AV version the players ended up rushing the bosses for maximum rep or badges/hour.

Private servers are not a reflection of retail. The long epic AV's were about farming HKs, the only currency that mattered in pvp. Marks were floof.

[Nihilux]

Friendly reminder that even on private servers with the oldest AV version the players ended up rushing the bosses for maximum rep or badges/hour.
The only way to get your epic "week long AV" back would be to overtune AV past the point it ever was in Vanilla or time travel back to 2005.

Korrak or not, 1.5 or 1.12, it doesn't matter.

Ya, as others have said, on Nost with the minefields etc all there, still operated exactly like it does on live, only frankly faster than it does now after the 8.0 changes.

There are specific points you can navigate through to avoid everything, and if you don't, people just leave immediately.

The battle will still be going, but it might as well not finish, because no serious player cares to be in there after that.

After a quick search in regards to AV in Nostalrius and Light's Hope, you both are right and wrong. Clearly what's being done is that you have situations in which both factions agree to avoid combat altogether, to maximize the time/honor ratio. However, that definitely doesn't seem to be an established thing like it is in retail, as both servers has/had tons of people complaining about long AVs and turtling. That's without also considering the problem that private server populations aren't representative of the more general playerbase and their goals. Generally it seems that on AV weekend there was this mutual agreement to not turtle, but not necessarily otherwise. It also seems to be because more hardcore, organized players participate. Generally it seems AV last from 30 minutes to 4 hours, with people raging that it's taking so long, that people are doing other objectives (ice-barbed, gathering, fishing, quests etc.)
Leaving AV will just net you the desert debuff, so that just makes for a terrible way to maximize your time/honor ratio, gambling on the opposite faction not defending, making AV primarily about the battleground itself and the reputation rewards. Unless it's AV weekend ofc.

Of course, the optimal solution would've really been to fix retail AV, especially since the problems are generally clear as day and the principle of AV is still sound imo. If that happened, I'd have no problem with whatever classic version of AV they implement in Classic. However, the complaints about 1.12 AV extends to other things that change how you participate in the battleground and thus having an effect on viability of rushing. It should also be remarked that it seems that you can defend in 1.12 also and get longer AVs.

[Gavll]

Pretty underwhelming announcement. If you're going to bring back "old" WoW. Then bring back "old" AV too. 1.12 AV isn't that different to current retail other than the reinforcements.

[Akka]

I'm quite disheartened by seeing that they consider "early improvements to the BG that we’re glad to have in place" to have less and weaker NPC, not having body parts to return and other aspects which were part of Alterac's uniqueness.

I really get this feeling they have goodwill toward the community but still having a hard time really understanding why people liked Vanilla, and often missing the point.

[Orbusg]

I wanted to experience it in its full glory.
It's one of those things you only hear about nowadays, the legendary battles that took place in it.

I've never heard anyone say that 1.12 is an improvement, only bad things about it.