Bod, one of the best raids ever?

[Archmage Alodi]

Not for me , there isn't anything special about this raid that i liked.

[wombats23]

Well, that would be case here if the gap between Aggramar kill and Argus kill wasn't 3 months. Trust me, it really was anything but great moment. It is great moment for better guilds where progression doesn't last half a year out of which you spend 3 months on one boss out of 11. Does it sound like fun to you? You think this is good difficulty curve? Definetly not to me. And I'm quite sure this case is more common than yours as we still hit rank 1.2k world, out of 10k guilds stepping into mythic difficulty after 7 months.

your guild taking 3 months to kill mythic argus says more about how bad your guild was than the difficulty argus. after p3 argus got changed so you couldn't immune any chains and only 2 would spawn at a time, your p3 was no longer reliant on rng, making argus both progression and rekill friendly.

if you're gonna complain about a difficulty curve last expansion, talk about ToS, not antorus.

[Sylvaeres]

Boss tuning and the gearing being fucked doesn’t affect him at all? Surely you’re not saying 1/6 mythic while being 4/9 heroic is fine. I mean I’m sure you are because based on your recycled argument you wouldn’t mind getting all the gear in the world being 1/9 heroic but hey, the gearing system being broken definitely doesn’t make the game worse. It’s certainly not one of the main complaints about the current game or anything.

In a time where titanforging can potentially give you an insane upgrade from anything I really don’t think loot should be that easy to get. If 1/9 mythic is achievable while your 4/9 heroic that’s ridiculous enough, add on top of that it drops some really good items and it makes no sense. Gearing is already completely RNG now though so I guess it doesn’t matter until they fix that if they decide to.

You should probably stop crying so much.

[Gaidax]

Well, that would be case here if the gap between Aggramar kill and Argus kill wasn't 3 months. Trust me, it really was anything but great moment. It is great moment for better guilds where progression doesn't last half a year out of which you spend 3 months on one boss out of 11. Does it sound like fun to you? You think this is good difficulty curve? Definetly not to me. And I'm quite sure this case is more common than yours as we still hit rank 1.2k world, out of 10k guilds stepping into mythic difficulty after 7 months.

Well, it's just the case of "git gud" then really.

We killed Argus 1 month and 1 week after our very first Aggramar kill, we even recleared at least once before the kill and we are 2 raid nights guild on top of that.

3 months? Dayum, what were you doing there guys?

[Beingbob]

Long-time raiders like Preach and Asmongold frequently state that raiding atm is harder and more punishing than ever, at least in terms of end bosses since Legion. While class design has been simplified and DPS checks are rare, bosses have tended to become more punishing in the sense that individual mistakes can fuck up your raid more than before. For most guilds that are below the rank 1000 mark, it has been a tendency in recent years that they will struggle to get a Cutting Edge kill in time, and they won't have many re-kills, because they needed 200-500 attempts to get the kill in the first place.

So the ridiculous 'git gud' argument is really obnoxious. There is a good argument to be made that end bosses are mistuned at the moment, since the majority of mythic raiding guilds that even get to that stage have to rely upon last-minute nerfs to even get the kill. Preach made a really good video about this where he compared Nighthold and Throne of Thunder, and showed that average kill times became dramatically shorter in ToT (indicating that gear progression really made a huge difference in reducing the difficulty of the raid over time) than in NH (where latter kills before improved upon kill times in general). This is imo just as relevant today: my guild has already stopped reclearing BoD in order to progress on Jaina, and we're all prepared to do hundreds and hundreds of attempts to down her. But it feels really weird, especially when the rest of the raid wasn't nearly as difficultly tuned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1YLx62dih4

[RuneDK]

Please tell me about those bugs I haven't seen once in clearing the raid since week 1.

yea because you equal the entirety of the population of wow...just because you don't experience them doesn't mean they aren't there.

[Taeldorian]

You should probably stop crying so much.

Ah yea. Nice response, definitely took care of the argument in an intelligent way. If you’re gonna shitpost at least put some effort into it.

[Gaidax]

Ah yea. Nice response, definitely took care of the argument in an intelligent way. If you’re gonna shitpost at least put some effort into it.

It was all your drivel deserved. You made some mess of everything in that post and much of it was a bloody hyperbole.

OoOOOooOO first boss in Mythic being easy as fuck, tell me this isn't true!!! As for your other point, no matter what you sprout there, the fact is that mythic raiders have better gear and faster across the board and without RNG, simply by the grace of the fact that we don't need to fish for forges to get high ilvl gear, we simply get it.

[Azelas]

It is, imo. Fantastic raid overall.

[trapmaster]

Bod raid is probably the worstest raid i ever attended and stopped a bit back then cuz flood of stupidity is beyond there that burns my mind.

[horbindr]

by far the biggest problem with BoD is that you don't keep your own gear/transmog when you get turned into the other faction.

gameplay wise it's nothing amazing, no particular outliers both good or bad. i think jadefire masters would have been a really cool fight if it was tuned as a 2nd half of the raid fight instead of a 1st half of the raid fight.

[Taeldorian]

It was all your drivel deserved. You made some mess of everything in that post and much of it was a bloody hyperbole.

OoOOOooOO first boss in Mythic being easy as fuck, tell me this isn't true!!! As for your other point, no matter what you sprout there, the fact is that mythic raiders have better gear and faster across the board and without RNG, simply by the grace of the fact that we don't need to fish for forges to get high ilvl gear, we simply get it.

No they don’t and you repeating that in literally every response doesn’t change that. Go spam m+10 and you’ll be 410-415 in no time. Can even buy azerite with currency from completing 1 +10 a week. Mythic raiding is a weekly lockout. Good luck getting 410 in a few weeks. There’s better ways to do that. Talk about drivel, your still quoting me even after yesterday where I stated multiple times I’m not going to agree with you. I dislike RNG ruling over the game especially gearing.

It’s funny because you haven’t listed 1 good thing about TF, RNG sockets or RNG tertiaries. There’s plenty of negatives so what’s the positives? Does it artificially draw out content because you’ll never have the best gear? Do those 3 things help the gearing system? How so?

Your posts have been nothing but you getting upset that people don’t like these garbage RNG systems. Again, ion has addressed TF alone so many times it’s obvious people dislike it. You’ve listed nothing about these systems benefiting the game, just a bunch of mocking and “u don’t like what I like, fuck off!”. Your posts have just been fluff so far. You even claimed that “BiS lists” still exist, lmao, that’s not even remotely true. You can make one but due to all this RNG and m+10s being easy you won’t have everything from the raid, hell most BiS trinkets are from dungeons.

TLDR: I get it. You love these random upgrade slot machine systems a lot. That’s great. How do they benefit the game? How is the game better off with the gearing process filled with RNG? You haven’t said anything about this at all, you’ve just attacked and attacked probably because you don’t have a good answer. Never used ignore but I guess it’s fine to do so since all you’ve done is mock, attack and fail to address any of my posts outside of getting super pissed that I dislike the slot machine garbage. RNG/TF have been mentioned in almost every single QA, it’s clearly an issue that players have and that devs wanna deal with.

[Battlebeard]

I think Uldir was much better. This is too linear, slightly too much trash and mediocre fights. It's not bad, but not a top raid by any means.

Naxxramas and Blackrock Foundry are my two favorites, with wings where you have more options of which bosses you want to do first.

[Gaidax]

No they don’t and you repeating that in literally every response doesn’t change that. Go spam m+10 and you’ll be 410-415 in no time. Can even buy azerite with currency from completing 1 +10 a week. Mythic raiding is a weekly lockout. Good luck getting 410 in a few weeks. There’s better ways to do that. Talk about drivel, your still quoting me even after yesterday where I stated multiple times I’m not going to agree with you. I dislike RNG ruling over the game especially gearing.

It’s funny because you haven’t listed 1 good thing about TF, RNG sockets or RNG tertiaries. There’s plenty of negatives so what’s the positives? Does it artificially draw out content because you’ll never have the best gear? Do those 3 things help the gearing system? How so?

Your posts have been nothing but you getting upset that people don’t like these garbage RNG systems. Again, ion has addressed TF alone so many times it’s obvious people dislike it. You’ve listed nothing about these systems benefiting the game, just a bunch of mocking and “u don’t like what I like, fuck off!”. Your posts have just been fluff so far. You even claimed that “BiS lists” still exist, lmao, that’s not even remotely true. You can make one but due to all this RNG and m+10s being easy you won’t have everything from the raid, hell most BiS trinkets are from dungeons.

TLDR: I get it. You love these random upgrade slot machine systems a lot. That’s great. How do they benefit the game? How is the game better off with the gearing process filled with RNG? You haven’t said anything about this at all, you’ve just attacked and attacked probably because you don’t have a good answer. Never used ignore but I guess it’s fine to do so since all you’ve done is mock, attack and fail to address any of my posts outside of getting super pissed that I dislike the slot machine garbage. RNG/TF have been mentioned in almost every single QA, it’s clearly an issue that players have and that devs wanna deal with.

Ho Ho? M+ 415 in no time? *sniff sniff* smells like bullshit. Where are all these 415 M+ heroes hiding? Sure ain't seeing them in M+ runs there.

You can't even frikkin' get 415 weapon or Azerite from M+, with only other Azerite source being random ass vendor selling pieces that are at best 400 dps loss compared to raid Azerite each.

Heck even Ion yesterday in Q&A said that mythic raiders by all metrics have higher average ilvl and gear quality than anyone else and in between your BS and Ion's words I'm going with him.

[trm90]

Moving forward into the Azshara tier, my wishlist would be:

- A better mid-raid wall, a Gorefiend/Augur/Fetid/Mistress style fight would be good. In a way this is Mekka to most, Opulence to others. Ideally, the difficulty should have shifted away from Opulence/Mekka and towards Rastakhan IMO, a fight which had potential to be the second most important boss.
- Re-introduce the teleport skip after you clear the penultimate boss enough times.
- Much more effort into diversified fight styles. Too much spread cleave in this tier. IMO an ideal raid is one where the hardest fights require a mix of ST, cleave, and AoE-heavy classes.
- Hopefully no repeat of G'huun class stacking, or "skipping" poorly tuned mythic mechanics (Jaina elemental)

[Marrilaife]

Ho Ho? M+ 415 in no time? *sniff sniff* smells like bullshit. Where are all these 415 M+ heroes hiding? Sure ain't seeing them in M+ runs there.

Check this guy for example: https://raider.io/characters/eu/gord...84%D1%8B%D1%87 He has like 2-3 items from the raid everything else from m+. You can definitely gear up from m+ if you're going hardcore like this guy (which is intended btw for m+ to be alternative for raiding).

You can't even frikkin' get 415 weapon or Azerite from M+, with only other Azerite source being random ass vendor selling pieces that are at best 400 dps loss compared to raid Azerite each.

That's subjective and depends on your spec. For some there's no BIS raid azerite setup and they have to resort to lootbox lottery from the vendor.

[Gaidax]

Check this guy for example: https://raider.io/characters/eu/gord...84%D1%8B%D1%87 He has like 2-3 items from the raid everything else from m+. You can definitely gear up from m+ if you're going hardcore like this guy (which is intended btw for m+ to be alternative for raiding).

So that guy is your example of 415+ from M+ in no time?

Can you troll harder please?

Meanwhile I do jack shit in M+ and raid 2 days a week for 3 hours and have same ilvl and double the sockets on top of that ez.

[Ferozan]

Battle for Dazar'alor is, based on a mythic experience, one of the worst raids i've ever experienced in this game. It is Dragon Soul levels of bad.

First and huge problem is that it doesn't have a skip. That can be seen as a small detail, but in 2k19, not having a skip for easier time on farming, when all the prior raids (before Uldir) have it for at least the 3rd to last boss.

For graphics, it is just the troll city reused assets with some new rooms, nothing new, really boring in my opinion.

As for the bosses, talking as a 8/9M with little P3 pulls on Jaina

Champions of Light is the easiest boss of all time. I don't remember the first boss being as easy as this one. Since it is the first boss, whatever.

Grong is a boss i really like as a 2nd boss. It is a wake-up call for healers and for cd setting and managing tantrum energy. For the 2nd boss, it is good.

Jadefire however is quite strange. The seven-sided strike skill on the whole raid is the only real change and the last phase has a really strange behavior if the monk dies before it. If they had more health and shared health, maybe it would be a better boss, as last phase would have more mechanics.

Opulence is a cool boss, the first of the middle part of the raid. Splitting the raid and making sure people do not make mistakes with the gems, so the last phase is doable. Coin Showers should be handled different imo though, maybe doing less damage but not being immunable.

Conclave is a cool boss, the mythic change adds a twist for healers and makes dps need to dispel the curse, overall a good boss for the middle of the raid.

King Rastakhan is sad. Still do not understand why the last phase is the easiest one, it should punish the raid much more, as you can easily kill him with 3-4 dps dead on a first kill. BDG strat trivialized the spirit realm phase, which is a merit of the players though.

Mekkatorque is the best fight of the raid hands down. Mechanics check, dps check, healing setup check, the only real problem of this fight in my opinion is the camera in some angles (specially if you get small where the camera zooms in) and overall performance in this fight, where in P3 with fire from sheeps + sparks from robots start cluttering the screen and slowing overall performance. Maybe that is just for my pc tho :P

Blockade is a cool fight and the several approaches people have been creating make it a quite different fight to approach. Lusting on pull, not interrupting to improve P2, adapting P2 timings for when adds come, it has a tons of cool ways to do it. The only problem i think is that it is a bit of a easy fight for a 2nd to last boss. Maybe the nerfs were too much

Jaina is one of the worst last bosses simply because of artificial difficulty. As a boss taking lots of ideas from Kil'jaeden, the name of the fight is RNG.

P1 Timers mechanics start overlapping randomly from try to try
Fog of war and weather mechanics that only add to the biggest problem in this game's raiding that is boss mechanics not being well telegraphed
P2 is fine with the only exception being icefall's coming after the unavoidable howling winds, which requires that you embrace your luck so it doesn't go into the raid's spot. We were trying to avoid this with Eagle Eye and Farsight, but sometimes you can't see it because you have to land the skill on the spot the arrow is, and you can't see the arrow nor the wall of the room, gotta make a blind shot.
Wall phase is ok and the coolest part of the fight, trying to kill it before being frozen to death is a cool idea for an intermission phase.

P3 is really sad in terms of design simply because every guild is using the "ignore the elemental and zerg jaina before we die" strat.
If they simply made jaina take split dmg while the elemental is alive or made the P2 and P3 start on higher % of hp (70 and 40, for example) would make this a strat a lot harder to pull off.
The strat is done because resetting stacks on P3 is not feasible simply because ice blocks have a lot of HP and the ice shards jaina and her images cast do an instant kill if you are hit. Managing blocks, icefalls, crystalline dusts and orb of frosts, specially during howling winds, makes the difficulty much higher than simply trying to kill her before being killed.
Also you are still susceptible to Icefalls and moving on this phase as a group with boss cleaves + Heart of Frosts rolling out + the damage the debuff is doing is really hard to do. Blind single-double Icefalls during Howling Winds, where you can't see the arrow, can also happen, so praying for the RNG to help is kinda the only way in the fog.

Those are all personal opinions, i really think this raid is not that good, it is on the same level of Uldir for me.

[Marrilaife]

Meanwhile I do jack shit in M+ and raid 2 days a week for 3 hours and have same ilvl and double the sockets on top of that ez.

"Ez"...

Wish my 9/9 mythic guild had a single person as lucky and geared as you are. No wonder you defend titanforge.

[Gaidax]

"Ez"...

Wish my 9/9 mythic guild had a single person as lucky and geared as you are. No wonder you defend titanforge.

I don't know what kind of guild you are, but I'm not even the best geared in our. I'm like 6th-7th guy on a totem pole gear-wise. We got one almost at ilvl 419 from Mythic raiding exclusively.