The Brexit aftermath thread

[mojojojo202]

Where are you getting your information? In the 2016 national referendum his constituency of NE Somerset voted 52.1 leave 47.9 remain. He is carrying out the will of the people he represents. Democracy at its finest in action.

You are deeply wrong about the very foundation of British democracy.

MPs have absolutely no obligation to do what their c9nstituents want and are more than welcome to do entirely the opposite of what their constituency or the wider public may support.

British MPs are elected to use their best judgement, not carry out the will of those that elected them.

[kaid]

I also don't have the power to wipe alt accounts of permabans, even if this was S&F. But I digress, Dizzeeyooo and Nymrohd have the right of it, May and Corbyn are playing chicken over Brexit. They're waiting for the other one to make the first move in either revoking or cancelling it, so they can virtue signal that the other party doesn't respect democracy.

It's not about Brexit for either of them, it's their squabble over who gets to be Prime Minister, they just happen to be playing with the future of the country and not seeming to care.

Some of it is also political hot potato. It is why May keeps surviving stuff that should have forced her resignation. Everybody sees what the likely two outcomes of this debacle are and nobody really wants to be holding the bag when it blows up one way or the other. I expect once a decision either way happens May gets punted. Until then though the PM spot is basically toxic and nobody really wants to be there because at this point it is painfully clear there is no good brexit happening. It is either the most incompetent no deal fail out brexit or it is something like rescind article 50 both of which would be seen as abject failures of government.

[Kallisto]

3. MP's have finally decided to do the honourable thing and represent the views of their constituents.

“in the past week there has been a shift towards No Deal amongst the public”.- Opinium

If Parliament rejects Theresa May’s deal once again as expected, 46% of voters support leaving on WTO terms. That compares to 39% who support delaying Brexit to hold a second referendum, giving No Deal a 7-point lead.

https://www.westmonster.com/public-o...it-poll-finds/

No deal has a 7% lead yippeee...tick tock.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8831241.html

An actual real, factual, news organization using yougov an actual, real legit polling organziation as the source shows differently.

When it comes to UK citizens Remain is the absolute clear winner.

Vs No deal it's Remain at 57% vs 43% No deal (14 point lead)

Vs May's deal Remain is at 61% vs 39% May Deal (22 point lead)

You are the minority.

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Well the issue is that May's comments yesterday may well get an MP killed.

We've already had a Labour MP attacked and Soubry not going home for her own safety.

[AeneasBK]

I know this isn't gonna make me look good but if someone wants to murder BoJo I'm not gonna shed any tears.

[dribbles]

You are deeply wrong about the very foundation of British democracy.

MPs have absolutely no obligation to do what their c9nstituents want and are more than welcome to do entirely the opposite of what their constituency or the wider public may support.

British MPs are elected to use their best judgement, not carry out the will of those that elected them.

You are wrong on all accounts.

MP's are clearly mandated to carry out the democratic wishes of their constituents. Sure it is possible they can knock on doors and promise one thing at election time and then come the moment do the exact opposite.

However in such a case their constituents can sack them, as soon to be ex MP Nick Boles has found out, if you don't believe me or want an example.

The rout will be extensive, the electorate will drain the swamp. MP's must carry out the instructions of their electorate or it is down the job centre for them.

In short they must do as they are told.

[draykorinee]

You are wrong on all accounts.

He's only allowed one account, multiple accounts is against forum rules.

Bad

A snap YouGov poll conducted today finds that the public wants MPs to vote down the prospect of a No Deal Brexit by 46% to 33%.

[Slant]

I know this isn't gonna make me look good but if someone wants to murder BoJo I'm not gonna shed any tears.

Nobody would. But it's still bad manners to say it outright.

[whywhatwhowhenhow]

Pie is spot on as usual. One of his best video's yet.



Where's Guy Fawkes when you need him?! ROFL

[AeneasBK]

I dunno it's probably me just being politically unsavvy but he seems to ramble along calling politicians dickheads then contradicting himself when talking about problems and solutions. I'm sure theres some astute wisdom in there but mostly it seems like par for the course Jonathan Pie which is just calling the political elite a bunch of clueless dickheads with long words interjected with vulgarities for comedic affect. It must have been a very easy few years for him because it's hard to argue when it's framed like that.

But like I say, it's probably me just being politically unsavvy.

[walthplath]

An actual real, factual, news organization using yougov an actual, real legit polling organziation as the source shows differently.

When it comes to UK citizens Remain is the absolute clear winner.

Vs No deal it's Remain at 57% vs 43% No deal (14 point lead)

Vs May's deal Remain is at 61% vs 39% May Deal (22 point lead)

You are the minority.

Yes, as the polls predicted, Remain will win, Hilary Clinton will get elected, Teresa May will win by a landslide. Those are all actual poll predictions. Do you people never learn anything?

You can't poll this stuff accurately because there's a significant number of people on the far right and the far left who don't show up in polling samples, because they despise any kind of authority, of which the pollsters are one manifestation. But they have been turning up for votes of late and they tend to swing them.

[Slant]

What a load of bollocks. One of the defining feature of extremists is that they always turn up. They're extremists. They go to extreme length to win. What swung these votes is an undecided and confused centre that swings one way or the other. And guess what, the centre is full of people that don't have a whole lot of interest in politics. But they do get scared easily. That's why extremists can swing the vote by just lying to the centre. We dropped the ball on this one, but rest assured, it won't happen again. So enjoy this little episode of empowerment. Once this is over, we'll stomp hard on extremists. They can fuck right off.

[CostinR]

A few weeks ago I would have gone with no brexit and eventually revoking article 50.

Now? Now I don't know. Depends on Bruxelles if they are patient enough for that to happen, and it will happen I feel, or if they want to make a point by having Britain crash and burn. I don't know the EU has surprised me in that past as to how far they are willing to go, maybe they will again.

[Slant]

Ah, finally, a British paper that puts it on the table. Or at least pays someone to do it.

https://www.ft.com/content/5f3df8bc-...6-79eaea5acb64

The Brexit farce is about to turn to tragedy

Britain is paying for its ignorance of how the EU actually works

ROBERT COOPER

Welcome to Disneyland. Leading Brexiter Jacob Rees-Mogg is playing Mickey Mouse as the sorcerer’s apprentice from Fantasia; Theresa May is the wicked witch from Snow White — though she is short on magic. Across the pond, an evil ogre known as Donald Trump is waiting to eat us all up.

It’s grim; but it’s a great learning experience. Has anyone learnt? Has former Brexit secretary David Davis worked out that his plan to leave the EU while retaining “the exact same benefits” as staying in the single market, was a little ambitious? Or that the Germans actually care more about the integrity of the EU than about selling Brits BMWs? Has Michael Gove finally noticed that we did not after all “hold all the cards” the day after we voted to leave? Has anyone worked out that frictionless trade is quite complicated, and that the dreary Brussels machinery does a good job for us?

We shouldn’t count on it. It is easier to blame others. Britain triggered Article 50 without having a clue what we wanted or how we were going to get it. The European Commission, by contrast, knew exactly what it was doing: the diplomats in Brussels are masters of negotiation. After all, they have been doing it for years — for us, and for the rest of the EU. Notice that they take direction from their political masters at the start, consult them as they go along, and return to them at the end. The commission is dealing with sovereign states. Our government might consider doing the same with its sovereign parliament.

Another lesson: the EU is bigger than Britain. If we leave without an agreement, that is a nuisance for the EU — about 10 per cent of their trade is with us. For us, they represent 49 per cent and no deal risks being a catastrophe. The idea that this is an important bargaining chip is ridiculous. One day — we cannot ignore our neighbours forever — we will be back at the table, helpless on our side, furious on theirs.

Why is the EU being so nasty? We thought we were friends. So we were: in the EU you do business with each other every day, no matter what. In the days when we were hardly speaking to the Germans about Iraq, we still worked together to stop other members cheating on milk quotas. You never break up completely. The EU is a system of compulsory friendships.

But, with apologies to Shakespeare, take that bond away, “untune that string, and hark, what discord follows”. When you choose to be an outsider, you are treated as one. The smallest insiders (Dublin in the case of Brexit) matter more than the biggest outsider (us). The systems we have helped build up over the years must be defended against outsiders seeking special privileges. There is no way of being half in and half out, no having cake and eating it. The dish turns out to be humble pie, anyway.

It is late to be learning lessons. Why did the UK not bring in those who learnt them long ago? John Major, Chris Patten and Jonathan Hill, for example. What foolishness to lose Ivan Rogers, who presumably resigned as the UK’s permanent representative to the EU because he told the truth. Why did the government not make use of John Kerr, who drafted Article 50 and Stephen Wall who wrote the history of Britain and the EU? Now a new volume is needed. The ignorance of Westminster about Europe is appalling — we have some good MEPs who could help, but they don’t have security passes for the House of Commons.

How remarkable that 27 sovereign states have worked so well together when the UK is so divided. Mrs May talks about delivering for the 17m who voted to Leave. What about the others? Wouldn’t the government be in a stronger position if it had built a bipartisan consensus?

There are two big lessons. First we are paying the price of our failure for years to explain the EU. What is it for? Security. It delivers good political relations among neighbours — the best guarantee of security you can get. We have benefited very directly from this. Being in the EU together meant that for the first time we worked with Dublin as equals. That, and the open border, enabled peace in Ireland. In Britain, no one noticed. The EU is a political project: the customs union and the single market are means to an end. Why did no one tell us?

The second lesson is that we are governed by the parties for the parties. The system would never get past a decent competition regulator. Most people know that it makes no difference how they vote. We are the oldest parliamentary democracy, and it shows.

Government by slogan does not work. Are we taking back control or handing it over to Brussels? By the time we find out, it will be too late. If the UK prime minister had a sense of humour, she would set up the committee of inquiry now, so it could take evidence in real time, as the tragedy unfolds.

The writer is a former diplomat for the UK and the EU

[Skroe]

It's kind of fitting Vladimir Putin's two major strategic attacks on the Western World come to some sort of climax within a couple of weeks of each other.

Brexit and Trump are basically two edges of the same sword.

[walthplath]

What a load of bollocks. One of the defining feature of extremists is that they always turn up. They're extremists. They go to extreme length to win. What swung these votes is an undecided and confused centre that swings one way or the other. And guess what, the centre is full of people that don't have a whole lot of interest in politics. But they do get scared easily. That's why extremists can swing the vote by just lying to the centre. We dropped the ball on this one, but rest assured, it won't happen again. So enjoy this little episode of empowerment. Once this is over, we'll stomp hard on extremists. They can fuck right off.

Blah blah blah. I bet this stuff I know what's going on, you don't, end of story. You are welcome to put down six figures on betfair if you are confident and I'll be happy to take your money.

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It's kind of fitting Vladimir Putin's two major strategic attacks on the Western World come to some sort of climax within a couple of weeks of each other.

Brexit and Trump are basically two edges of the same sword.

Yeah must be that. Russians. Not the increasing divergence between worker and executive pay and the dislocation and alienation that comes with disenfranchising an entire generation. Definitely Russians. That's not a fantasy concocted by corporate Democrats or anything.

[Slant]

It's kind of fitting Vladimir Putin's two major strategic attacks on the Western World come to some sort of climax within a couple of weeks of each other.

Brexit and Trump are basically two edges of the same sword.

Agreed. But he should've made sure he got killing blows with that sword, cos this was always going to be the one hit he got. I expect this to pass, for both sides and then some serious pushing back. The Russian Government, whoever it is, will wish sanctions back once we're done with this.

[Amalaric]

He's only allowed one account, multiple accounts is against forum rules.

Hahahahaha... I consider some of you being alt accounts by the same guy arguing with himself... just kidding.

[Slant]

Blah blah blah. I bet this stuff I know what's going on, you don't, end of story. You are welcome to put down six figures on betfair if you are confident and I'll be happy to take your money.

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Yeah must be that. Russians. Not the increasing divergence between worker and executive pay and the dislocation and alienation that comes with disenfranchising an entire generation. Definitely Russians. That's not a fantasy concocted by corporate Democrats or anything.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/20/b...ets/index.html

London (CNN Business)Banks and other financial companies are shifting more assets and jobs out of the United Kingdom as the country lurches towards Brexit.

Financial services companies in Britain have announced plans to move £1 trillion ($1.3 trillion) into the European Union, according to consultancy EY. That's up from an earlier estimate of £800 billion ($1.1 trillion).

Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you. You were saying something about alienating a generation? Which one? The young ones that overwhelmingly voted to remain?

Don't let that news article disturb you, I just found it randomly. They seem to increase in frequency...

[FluFF]

A few weeks ago I would have gone with no brexit and eventually revoking article 50.

Now? Now I don't know. Depends on Bruxelles if they are patient enough for that to happen, and it will happen I feel, or if they want to make a point by having Britain crash and burn. I don't know the EU has surprised me in that past as to how far they are willing to go, maybe they will again.

I would say in this 3 year ongoing clown fiesta that Brussels has been more than patient enough, if Britain actually had a clear cut plan for leaving after Leave won we wouldn't be in this mess but no one had a clue.

The more I see those votes going on in Parliament the more it looks like a 3th grade preschool where no one knows if they want apple juice or need a shit on the potty.

[walthplath]

You were saying?

You posted that before. As I responded before, that's a vote-winner for Dribbles and his friends. A lot of the resentment of the EU was mixed up with banking, particulary foreign bankers. You really understand nothing do you?