The Brexit aftermath thread

[AeneasBK]

The roundabout had more than 2 exits, because "leave the European Union" is incredibly vague about what that actually means about the future relationship between Britain and the EU

Can't we just rename the European Union the Europeen Union and then we can argue that we honored the ballot by leaving the European Union.

[Drutt]

Also on the worst "PM since" debate. Cameron is worse than May, and I think we're past comparisons to Eden, or even Neville Chamberlain. We're at Lord North levels here.

I don't agree that Cameron is worse than May.

It's absolutely true to say he made a catastrophic error of judgement in reading the national mood. As a result, he was overconfident and didn't set the referendum up properly. It was an enormous error and certainly something he deserves significant criticism for. Outside of this, however, Cameron was at least acceptably competent (whether or not you agreed with his policies is another matter).

May is absolutely useless. Triggered A50 with no plan, ruled out options arbitrarily, isolated other parties during negotiations, botched negotiations completely, utterly failed at building any kind of consensus and refuses to see any way but hers as an options. She's a horrendous leader, and possibly the worst PM we've had in history. Brexit is the largest challenge of modern UK history; May is so far below the required standard that it would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

Cameron certainly won't go down as one of the greats, but his enormous mistake is a far cry from the absolute incompetence of his successor.

[Northern Goblin]

What puts Cameron worse than May for me is that he fled his responsibility, there is nothing more unforgivable in my eyes than dereliction of duty. Had he the backbone to deal with the situation he created, May wouldn't get the chance to fuck it all up.

Motions accepted by the Speaker are the ones from Corbyn, Letwin and Beckett.

I expect Corbyn (which if I'm not mistaken will render Letwin irrelevant) and Beckett to both pass. The PM has stated she will whip against Letwin.

[Dizzeeyooo]

I expect Corbyn (which if I'm not mistaken will render Letwin irrelevant) and Beckett to both pass

No - Corbyn's amendment calls on the Government to do something (which they may choose to ignore) at some point this week (timetable is up to the Government). Letwin's amendment takes it out of the Government's hands completely and allocates specific time on Wednesday where MPs can decide for themselves what they discuss.

The Letwin amendment is basically a much more thorough and useful version of the Corbyn amendment, one does not rule the other out.

[AeneasBK]

What puts Cameron worse than May for me is that he fled his responsibility, there is nothing more unforgivable in my eyes than dereliction of duty. Had he the backbone to deal with the situation he created, May wouldn't get the chance to fuck it all up.

It's like that ethics trolley problem - Cameron has set the trolley down the track towards the 5 people tied to the line, May has her hand on the lever to switch the trolley over to a lane with only one person tied to the line but through selfish incompetence manages to jigger it onto a previously unseen track with 10 people on the line. Even so I personally would still blame Cameron more for loosing the trolley in the first place; but it makes sense that others would see the terribad handling of the switch as being more responsible for the outcome.

Sorry I'll stop making bad offtopic analogies I have waay too much time on my hands right now.

[Northern Goblin]

No - Corbyn's amendment calls on the Government to do something (which they may choose to ignore) at some point this week (timetable is up to the Government). Letwin's amendment takes it out of the Government's hands completely and allocates specific time on Wednesday where MPs can decide for themselves what they discuss.

The Letwin amendment is basically a much more thorough and useful version of the Corbyn amendment, one does not rule the other out.

Aha, good to know. I assumed one would supercede the other due to their similarity. This explains Keir Starmer's statement that both amendments will have Labour support.

Also Aeneas's analogy sums up my rationale for Cameron being the worst of him and May.

[dribbles]

Norway isn't a compromise, it's fulfilling the referendum by Leaving the European Union. According to you there are no degrees of leaving that should be discussed - Leave means Leave so why noy Leave the EU and join the EEA? Didn't 17 million people vote for that?

Sure, after we leave the EU and have honoured the referendum then have a vote on joining the EEA. Not before we have left.

[LeGin Tufnel]

If someone had told me Brexit would kill off the cancer of British imperialism

Brexit is harking back to and celebrating the UK's imperialist past, not killing it off.

[Dhrizzle]

Sure, after we leave the EU and have honoured the referendum then have a vote on joining the EEA. Not before we have left.

No we already had the vote - joining the EEA is leaving the EU. One exit on the roundabout according to you. Leaving the EU to joint the EEA honours the referendum because it only asked about leaving, nothing on it mentions where we should go next.

[Demolitia]

Brexit is harking back to and celebrating the UK's imperialist past, not killing it off.

Feels more like a pissing contest between eunuchs to me ... :P

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, after we leave the EU and have honoured the referendum then have a vote on joining the EEA. Not before we have left.

Norway already said "hell no" to you joining them.

[draykorinee]

Brexit is harking back to and celebrating the UK's imperialist past, not killing it off.

Haha, we look like a bunch of chumps.

[Kronik85]

So it's looking like none of the amendments will pass tonight and if they do then they will be ignored anyway. Be prepared to give a rousing round of applause to our Parliamentarians later this evening. Stirling work as always.

[Demolitia]

So it's looking like none of the amendments will pass tonight and if they do then they will be ignored anyway. Be prepared to give a rousing round of applause to our Parliamentarians later this evening. Stirling work as always.

I guess the EU anticipated such professionalism and constructive stance seeing their press release this morning.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-19-1813_en.htm

[Northern Goblin]

So it's looking like none of the amendments will pass tonight and if they do then they will be ignored anyway. Be prepared to give a rousing round of applause to our Parliamentarians later this evening. Stirling work as always.

Amendment A is passable, depends on how many Conservatives defy the whip.

[Kronik85]

Amendment A is passable, depends on how many Conservatives defy the whip.

Which one is A tonight? Not been able to find the BBC atm, just who's submitting them and what they contain.

/edit: Since Letwin's is first up, I guess it's A?

[Northern Goblin]

Amendment D withdrawn by the leader of the opposition, they're supporting amendment A which got a rather resounding aye vs a weaker no in division. Voting underway.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Business Minister Richard Harrington has resigned from the government in order to support the Letwin Amendment

[Northern Goblin]

Which one is A tonight? Not been able to find the BBC atm, just who's submitting them and what they contain.

Amendment A is Letwin's cross party amendment which takes the order paper off the Government. D was Corbyn's, the other is Beckett's that instructs the Government to seek further extension if we run out of time.. again.

- - - Updated - - -

Business Minister Richard Harrington has resigned from the government in order to support the Letwin Amendment.

Oh shit, that didnt take long. Expecting a few Conservatives to defy the whip on this.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Oh shit, that didnt take long. Expecting a few Conservatives to defy the whip on this.

Fingers crossed it passes with this + Labour also supporting.

[Zelk]

Absolute state of the BBC, covering for a group of ministers naming themselves after the leaders of the fucking kkk